December 2012

Post by **lesossies** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:31 pm

03.12.12 -16.12.12 Japan Tour

Post by **lesossies** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:40 pm

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:49 pm

Yeah, yeah, all ok.

Just one thing, try to make Dec Tour as popular as possible. So, if you offer 3 parallel tours, make them overlap, so it's possible to ride 2 at most. For the Andes 3 that all can be ridden was ok, Andes is a specialized stage race, not for everybody. The dec tour is for everybody, so don't make it too financially profitable in the parallel program. Offer 3 stage races, no problem, evne 4, but make it that it's possible to ride 2 max, so let them overlap!

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:44 pm

Other thing:
RSF "classics" Meaning 1 day races from last year as cat 2?
Proposed in the other thread were:
Santiago-Valparaiso (was in dec last year)
Tour du Volcan
Rhodos GP

Volcan and Rhodos were in January 12, but at least one could be moved to December.. January has the real season restarting, less need for RSF fantasy classics somehow. Yes we have 4 Dec classics, but all at the end of the month, 2 cat 2 'classics' in the first 3 weeks wouldn't hurt. And keep one of the three above for January..

Moscow Team Pro · Post by **Moscow Team Pro** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:07 pm

SORRY BUT ALL TOURS ARE FOR CLIMBERS? even a flat?

thx

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:24 pm

Japan has 4 sure sprints and a fifth that is possible
Parallel Ijen 2 sprints in 3 days.

So there I don't really see the problem

Later yes, agree... Taiwan nothing for sprinters. Shalom, nothing for sprinters (ok, 1 maaaaaybe possible, but why start for that, so no sprint)
Guadeloupe 1 sprint (1 each there, nice tour somehow)

So yeah, think too that's it's kind of a bit too anti sprinter, give the sprinters 2-3 stages or so in a 5 day tour, so they can fight for stages and green at least.
Second part of the month there simply isn't much for them. Something with 1-3 sprint stages instead of Taiwan would be kind of nice..

sylvainmeteo · Post by **sylvainmeteo** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:06 pm

Moscow Team Pro wrote:SORRY BUT ALL TOURS ARE FOR CLIMBERS? even a flat?

thx

Yes, I think there's too much mountainous or very mountainous tour at the moment

Alkworld · Post by **Alkworld** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:02 pm

sylvainmeteo wrote:
Moscow Team Pro wrote:SORRY BUT ALL TOURS ARE FOR CLIMBERS? even a flat?

thx
Yes, I think there's too much mountainous or very mountainous tour at the moment

Ok, two things:
1) Most of the 2nd half of the year, there are usually not many small tours for climbers (there are enough big ones, of course).
2) Now there are just really too many at once
- Japan: perfect climber tour (including some sprints) - was a decision of the majority of voters
- Haleakala: clearly a climbers tour
- Ijen: mixed tour which will most likely be won by climbers
- Taiwan: another perfect tour for climbers
- Guadeloupe: ?
- Shalom: not bad for climbers, but looks more like sth for more than just climbers

So what I'm saying that we had little for climbers recently (apart from big tours not everybody can ride) and now we are flooded with climbers' tours. I'd suggest to replace one of the climber-friendly tours by sth else, maybe sth for classic riders?
And, weird enough, I have to agree somehow with SM, it's very hard for non-climbers to make loads of money here

Pokemon Club · Post by **Pokemon Club** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:17 pm

Alkworld wrote:
sylvainmeteo wrote:
Moscow Team Pro wrote:SORRY BUT ALL TOURS ARE FOR CLIMBERS? even a flat?

thx
Yes, I think there's too much mountainous or very mountainous tour at the moment
Ok, two things:
1) Most of the 2nd half of the year, there are usually not many small tours for climbers (there are enough big ones, of course).
2) Now there are just really too many at once
- Japan: perfect climber tour (including some sprints) - was a decision of the majority of voters
- Haleakala: clearly a climbers tour
- Ijen: mixed tour which will most likely be won by climbers
- Taiwan: another perfect tour for climbers
- Guadeloupe: ?
- Shalom: not bad for climbers, but looks more like sth for more than just climbers

So what I'm saying that we had little for climbers recently (apart from big tours not everybody can ride) and now we are flooded with climbers' tours. I'd suggest to replace one of the climber-friendly tours by sth else, maybe sth for classic riders?
And, weird enough, I have to agree somehow with SM, it's very hard for non-climbers to make loads of money here

The problem isn't that there are climber tour in the calendar. But recently, it looks nobody draw a flat tour so. Maybe it can be interesting to put Hunsruck's Kenya tour on the calendar, it looks enough flat

Post by **lesossies** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:14 pm

Japan is a tour for sprinter too : 5 sprint chances, 2TT , 3-4 mountains, 2-3 middle .

Ijen 2 flats, 1 climb -> Ok for sprinter too.

Haleakala, Taiwan and Shalom Tours not for sprinters.

I only have Kenia Tour stage 1 and 2.

Laos from hansa a possibility too. 3 flat stages and 1 ITT.

Hunsrueck · Post by **Hunsrueck** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:43 pm

lesossies wrote:Japan is a tour for sprinter too : 5 sprint chances, 2TT , 3-4 mountains, 2-3 middle .

Ijen 2 flats, 1 climb -> Ok for sprinter too.

Haleakala, Taiwan and Shalom Tours not for sprinters.

I only have Kenia Tour stage 1 and 2.

Laos from hansa a possibility too. 3 flat stages and 1 ITT.

Kenia Stage three must be now online.

Sorry i do a mistake

Hansa · Post by **Hansa** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:18 pm

you can put all tours which are sure that they will be in december in the racecalender, please?

Post by **lesossies** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:47 am

Sri Lanka instead Taiwan !

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:12 am

lesossies wrote:Japan is a tour for sprinter too : 5 sprint chances, 2TT , 3-4 mountains, 2-3 middle .

Ijen 2 flats, 1 climb -> Ok for sprinter too.

Haleakala, Taiwan and Shalom Tours not for sprinters.

I only have Kenia Tour stage 1 and 2.

Laos from hansa a possibility too. 3 flat stages and 1 ITT.

Just to open that topic again and to go into detail about your evluation of the Japan Tour: Japan has two TTs, so far you're right. But to be exact, the first is a TTT and the second is in fact a mountain TT for - take a guess - climbers (!) or hubers (climbers with TT). Furthermore, most middle mountain stages are for climbers too. Just take a look a the final parts of the stages. Here a list (I love lists):

1 - sprinters
2 - climbers
3 - climbers
4 - sprinters
5 - climbers
6 - sprinters
7 - sprinters
8 - climbers
9 - sprinters most likely, perhaps hill sprinters , most likely a group will make it.
10 - climbers
11 - climbers with TT
12 - climbers
13 - sprinters

So I see 5/6 sprint stages and 7 stages for climbers of which one is for climbers with a good TT skill. Just to clear up the picture a bit.

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:36 pm

Too late for negative campaigning FL!

Although mmh, hadn't really realized that Japan is that anti classics. Good point.

But, a question for lesossies:

What about the idea of a second Dec tour used in early January? IMO still better than Tachira who is almost as long..If you think that's a good idea, different possibilities:
1a) if the runner up in the second round for dec. won the first round, use this.
1b) If not, make another vote with the remaining tours for January.

2) New vote, all remaining tours (Except the last one maybe) winner of one round is the january tour

3) Another first round second round vote

4) Only second round between the losing finalist and the the 3rd tour from the first round.

My opinion.... still split, in a way would be nice to use more than just one of the dec tours... so would like it. But then closes the first half of January with a big tour agan. If leso wants it, then to decide.... except nr 3, which with our voting lazy users seems a waste of time, all option seem nice enough.

But decisive, what does leso think? (Ok, what does the rest think maybe interesting too)

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:51 pm

I have another suggestion: Why not let the designers chose one of their loser tour's stages to be a one day race?

Pokemon Club · Post by **Pokemon Club** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:11 pm

team fl wrote:I have another suggestion: Why not let the designers chose one of their loser tour's stages to be a one day race?

Or make a little tour with some stages of them

Eagle · Post by **Eagle** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:54 pm

Can you write in the discription of the Shalom tour, that the last two stages are half stages, so everyone can see it there and not only here

Post by **lesossies** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:34 pm

Eagle wrote:Can you write in the discription of the Shalom tour, that the last two stages are half stages, so everyone can see it there and not only here

Sorry I forgot to declare it, I´ll change it.
THX

Post by **lesossies** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:38 pm

team fl wrote:So I see 5/6 sprint stages and 7 stages for climbers of which one is for climbers with a good TT skill. Just to clear up the picture a bit.

It is OK.
I only meant that with 5-6 sprint stages in a 14 days tour, it is a good tour for sprinters and sprinter teams too.

team fl · Post by **team fl** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:10 pm

lesossies wrote:
team fl wrote:So I see 5/6 sprint stages and 7 stages for climbers of which one is for climbers with a good TT skill. Just to clear up the picture a bit.
It is OK.
I only meant that with 5-6 sprint stages in a 14 days tour, it is a good tour for sprinters and sprinter teams too.

Yes. For sprinters, the tour should be nice.

Robyklebt · Post by **Robyklebt** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:47 pm

Grrr... and my question is being ignored, grrr!

Post by **lesossies** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:25 pm

We are off topic, but I would propose a vote between EAT, GIOI EMT, and Alger in only one round with the possibility to change the vote during the period.
The January Tour could be cat2 .
I must look how it can be integrated in the january programm.
Let us discuss in the january 2013 thread.

Hansa · Post by **Hansa** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:46 pm

maybe for the form setting sri lanka and guadeloup can put online till tomorrow evening?

Alkworld · Post by **Alkworld** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:50 pm

Hanse wrote:maybe for the form setting sri lanka and guadeloup can put online till tomorrow evening?

What more do you need than the detailed profiles in the first post?

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