Campeonato de los Andes 2012

[Woddeltown Team]

After the critizism a new try....btw: thx to the Ape for some advices



First Mountain: 10/13/9/10/12/7/10/11/11/1/3 (11km a 8,8%)
El Socorro: 7/7/6/-2/8/7/5/1/2 (9km a 4,5%)
Abbejoral: 3/3/4/2/5/8/9/10/2 (9km a 5,2%)
Alto Monserrate: 8/5/7/6/8 (13km a 6,2%)
Pacora: 6/8
Starting at Medellin



El Mercid: 8/8/9/11/210/8/7 (9km a 8,1%)
Filadelfia (last 8km): 3/4/8/6/7/7/4/5/1 (15km a 5,7%)
Neiria: 6/8/6/4/5 (5km a 5,9%)
Los Nevados last 10: 6/9/9/11/10/10/9/3/4/2/1/13/8/6 (33km a 6,1%)


A day to relax
Canada los Minos: 1/3/11/1/2/10/1/0/1/4/7/6 (12km a 3,9%)




Another day to relax


Rossos: 3/6/7/6/7/5/2 (7km a 5,1%)
La Depresin: 2/4/8/7 (4km a 5,25%)
San Alfonso: 18/14/5/10/4 (21km a 8,3%)
La Esperanza: 6/8/0/12/10 (11km a 8,7%)


Camino Laguna Negra: 3/7/6/7/10/10/10/7/7 (9km a 7,4%)
Las Cruces: 7/6/5/6/5 (13km a 4,2%)


Nudo de Cojas: 8/4/7/4/5/4 (17km a 3,1%)
San Rafael: 5/6/5/7/5 (12km a 5,6%)
Lomo El Mirador: 2/8/6/6/7 (7km a 5,3%)
Miraflores: 4/3/4/6/4 (9km a 4,4%)
Chuquiragua: 8/13/6/18/11 (43km a 4,9%)


Cerro Yanaurcu: 6/7/12/3/2 (28km a 5%)
Cerro Artisana: 20/20/20/20/20 (15km a 16,7%)


El Altar: 19/16/20/16/10 (26km a 8,8%)


El Cajas: 18/6/9/12/17 (11km a 12.1%)
Yunguilla Guarco: 15/8/17/12/15/14 (6km a 13,5%)
La Flora: 17/17/17




Calle Culpamba: 6/5/7/3/13 (31km a 4%)
San Felipe: 8/10/1/2/9 (13km a 5,6%)
El Chicho: 5/9/7/7/5 (17km a 6,2%)
Hoya: 2/4/13/5/5 (5km a 5,8%)
Tinajilas: 5/2/4/3/8 (6km a 4,1%)


Pasochoa: 12/14/15/9/19 (13km a 10,1%)
Cotopaxl: 18/14/20/20/20 (23km a 9,3%)

[Alkworld]

"The early Woddel catches the Andes" or something like that I think we are fine, still four months to go. Without knowing the exact numbers of your tour (e.g. altitude = "Höhenmeter" in German), I'd say your Campeonato is too simple. As you haven't been in the game for a long time, you should know, that first five Campeonatos were all drawn by Cerro, only the last one was done by Aixteam. And the whole tour, when still drawn by Cerro, was known to be an extreme tour with endless and countless mountain stages harder than at the Giro and always some special feature like:
- an extremely long TTT
- long TTT on "pavé" (actually it was on Salar de Uyuni, a huge dried salt lake)
- the Death Road in Bolivia

In my opinion, your tour is still too soft (keep it for the Dec Tour contest), I saw on the first view only 5 real mountain stages, of which only one goes constantly up and down (but also has along flat section before the last hill). Two long ITTs (I assume stage 3 is a ITT) are also a bit too much, feels a bit like this year's Tour de France without the hard mountain stages

[Woddeltown Team]

The funny thing first:
Woddel means in Plattdeutsch worm...sounds a bit strange whne you know the translation

As I said it is only a suggestion, so everyone could feel free to critisize it or to draw his own, better one.
Or i will change some stages...maybe that is a solution.
Learning by doing or something like that

[Robyklebt]

Pff, see, I didn't criticize a thing, it's Alk people are scared off!

[Alkworld]

Maybe we can ask Cerro, if he still has his old Campeonato presentations in pdf format. He put a lot of work into that in the past. Those presentations could give you and all other teams, who only joined within the last two years, a good idea, how the Campeonato looked like in the past.
When it comes to drawing a Campeonato myself, I'll hopefully be able to try next year. This year I don't have time either to ride or to draw that beautiful and prestigeous tour.

[Robyklebt]

Ok, can't resist.

99% I wont ride this Andes. (Ok ok, 99% I won't ride any Andes, no time, but I like to be negative, so let's say just this Andes)

But criticism:

1: Too fast design. tracks4bikers etc are simply not precise enough in SA IMO, better to lots of stuff in google earth, with GPS Analyse net treatment later on. Prepare with t4b and similar, why not, but decisive mountains, better double and triple check
2: Mmh, am I allowed to send the worm (hihi) a PN with more criticism and suggestions? Yeah yeah, after seeing the post couldn't resist and googled around in the Andes for way too long....

[Cerro Torre RT]

Headfirst, for Alks wish: I still have the pdf presentations for 2008 (german) and 2009 (german and english). But the PDF's are too large to post them here. I would need to split them in multiple zip files, which I will only do if directly asked for (Quite some klickwork). Still online is the presentation of 2010, at http://radsportfreaks.npage.eu/. You can find it in the "Archiv", last category. There you can download the kml-files, too, which you can import to Google Earth to look at.

Questioning the difficulties of the course, I don't like to jugde that just from the pictures. With the large scales, they don't really show the steepness. Would require a deeper look in the numbers, which I may take during the next days.

Honestly (bet you guessed that already that I can't let my hands off "my" tour), I already made a rough concept for a new edition. Ok, for real, that concept exists dates from 2009, I just reviewed it. But I am totally against another drawer's competition, especially for the Andes. Thus, I will not continue to work on it, as Alk seems to like to do the one for next year.

And one last thing: No TTT at these stages. You have a choice of 2 TT's to convert into a TTT, and both kinds turned out to be desasterous in the Campeonato 2009. Last days TTT's are allways shit, and the Pave to simulate the Salar de Uyuni produced a lot of bugs. So don't do that.

[Cerro Torre RT]

Ok, I looked at the numbers already, and I have to agree with Alkworld. We have 4 stages that are suitable for climbers. 2 of them (stage 4 and 7) are very short mountain finishs with more or less constant, very long and flat to not very steep climbs in prequel to it, that offer perfect terrain for controlling. The other 2 are mountain finishs as well, of medium length, and consisting of nearly only the mountain finish. Opposing to that, we have 91 kilometers of time trail. Looking at those numbers, I would even question if a Huber would be favourite. More alike, I would say a rider like Stefansson was (70-80 with 80 tt and 80+ pave) would stand the real chance to win it.

Thus said, means not I'd be totally against riding it. Nor does the extreme way the Campeonato was build during the first editions necessarily mean that this has to stay like that forever, neither that it was all good like that. But basicly, your proposal puts up the question in which direction the members whish the Campeonato to develop. One can't argue about of a mayority wants to transform it from an exaggeratedly hard fantasy tour towards some more realistic South America "Grand Tour" for the month of November.

[Alkworld]

In my personal opinion, the Campeonato should continue (or resume, when having a softer Aix version in mind) to be the one and only extreme mountain tour. It's a unique thing, we have it only once a year (although you could call some Giros extreme) and there are enough alternative races for those not interested, basically a similar situation like with the Tour des Pavés. So:
Please keep the Campeonato as the "exaggeratedly hard fantasy tour", as Cerro properly described it. As a South America GT, that looks similar to a December Tour, we can still have the December Tour.

[Robyklebt]

Exaggerately hard tour? I actually disagree, it never really was that. It was a climbing GT. Occacionally with chances for Hubers or even Leupolds in Cerros time too. So let's not keep it something it never was
Let's keep it what it is, a climbers tour. Unless Woddel, who now is the designer of 2012 wants to go with this one, really up to him.

But generally of course I agree, let's keep it a climbing GT, as a south American GT, IMO it wouldn't make much sense, then we might as well just make another competition out of it! But basically I agree with Alk and Cerro, no competition for that one, and if possible keep it a climbers tour.

[Alkworld]

Exaggerately hard tour? I actually disagree, it never really was that.

This depends on the point of view. There aren't many races in professional cycling where you climb something like the Camino de la Muerte, with 3600m height difference, mostly unsealed, around 20 degrees temperature difference and barely any oxygen on top. And one of the old Campeonatos had it twice in one stage In RSF however, it's a bit less extreme than it would be in real life.

[Robyklebt]

Oh, reality, ok, yes, then it's exaggerated.
But for RSF it wasn't really IMO, it's supposed to be a climbers tour, that's what it was.

[flockmastoR]

Oh, reality, ok, yes, then it's exaggerated.
But for RSF it wasn't really IMO, it's supposed to be a climbers tour, that's what it was.

A Schloemilch tour

But to be on topic, i really think the charakter of the Campeonato shouldnt change much. It WAS a climbers tour for sure.

[Woddeltown Team]

A new suggestion for the first two stages

[Robyklebt]

I think you forgot to post them....

Edit: Ok, ok, first post... got it....
Me likes!

[Woddeltown Team]

I think you forgot to post them....

thx for the subtle irony

[Robyklebt]

Wasn't irony... simply hadn't seen it... waited for something to load in that new post.. nothing happened... bah, he didn't post it.
Then ok, relooked at the top... found it. No irony, I'm anti Irony, RSF is serious business, I don't accept jokes, sarcasm or irony.

[Woddeltown Team]

Wasn't irony... simply hadn't seen it... waited for something to load in that new post.. nothing happened... bah, he didn't post it.
Then ok, relooked at the top... found it. No irony, I'm anti Irony, RSF is serious business, I don't accept jokes, sarcasm or irony.

haha

[Alkworld]

Looks promising, looking forward to the next stages

[Cerro Torre RT]

Looks a lot more like Campeonato that time... Although I am not a friend of starting with a mountain stage, I like the first one, with a short finish climb prequelled by a much longer one (hope it's hard enough).

One question, is Los Nevados in the same direction like Alto de Letras, just some further up, or some other direction?

[Woddeltown Team]

@Alk: My task: one day, one Stages

@Cerro: If i see it right on the map, Alto de Lastras will be 70-80km Northeast of Los Nevados

[Woddeltown Team]

added four more stages the last three days. hopefully you like it

[Cerro Torre RT]

Hehe, see quite a number of citys that were start or finish of the Campeonato 2008 (Manizales, Popayan, Pasto, Ibarra), but don't worry, the tracks look quite different. Too, it switched to Ecuador nearly at the same stage number. Let's see where it's leading in Ecuador.

[Woddeltown Team]

Stages 9 & 10 addet

[Woddeltown Team]

Tour completed, hopefully you like it