Karenz BUG

[HeidfeldFanclub]

Hi,

take a look at this picture:



Why are the last two riders still in the race? Karenz time is 45 minutes - that two attacked some km before the end from a bigger gruppetto group which had 47 minutes or so and therefore did not fight anymore...

As that two might effect the last Giro stages (team classement, Time Trial, Helpers for Stages Lacombe) and other teams lost riders being in the same gruppetto group were that attacked from because of thinking Karenz in 45 min, so please take them out TODAY!

[polist4ever]

why are so evil with my 2 riders ?? are you angry because i win today and you were on 3 ?? this is shit ... i attacked with him from group to save him. if the 2 guys were in that group yes, they were out of race but so ...

Km: 177, Gradient: 0 (9km until finish)
Silviu Ionescu (TB Construct CT) attacks
Gerry Baker (TB Construct CT) attacks

[Ronson]

@TB
It is just a bug.

[HeidfeldFanclub]

why are so evil with my 2 riders ?? are you angry because i win today and you were on 3 ?? this is shit ... i attacked with him from group to save him. if the 2 guys were in that group yes, they were out of race but so ...

Km: 177, Gradient: 0 (9km until finish)
Silviu Ionescu (TB Construct CT) attacks
Gerry Baker (TB Construct CT) attacks

That has nothing to do with your riders and even less with your well deserved victory.

It is just a fact of fairness - don't you get it? You attacked from a group of 15 or so, when this group was 3 minutes behind Karenu (about 48). Noone of the others teams in there (SK, BIKE, JOGA, SANS) tried to fight, because they thought it is over. Karenz is 45, so everyone with more has to go out. That you could stay in and others are out in unfair... That's the point. If we al knew 50 minutes is Karenz, it would be ok, but noone knew

[NoPikouze]

Because there is always a small chance to be saved by the jury !

Noone of the others teams in there (SK, BIKE, JOGA, SANS) tried to fight

So, whats the problem ? You don't want to fight, you don't survive.
I guess you wanted to save some energy, which really makes sense

[Ronson]

Because there is always a small chance to be saved by the jury !

Noone of the others teams in there (SK, BIKE, JOGA, SANS) tried to fight

So, whats the problem ? You don't want to fight, you don't survive.
I guess you wanted to save some energy, which really makes sense

Excuse me, but this is bullshit!

[superemre]

IT'S A BUG, !

[Robyklebt]

No it's not a bug.

45' but Buh has an automatic 'jury' that let's some riders in, if the 'jury' otherwise feels that too many riders are eliminated it keeps earlier groups or single riders in. That's what seems to have happened here.

[Buhmann]

Maybe stupid "jury", but not a bug.

[polist4ever]

thanks buhmann!

[NoPikouze]

I think the jury did great, if the other teams did not want to fight

[superemre]

if the other teams, if they knew this.
If we knew this, we'd attacked the last km

[Ronson]

Maybe stupid "jury", but not a bug.

Could you please explain more detailed?

[Ronson]

No it's not a bug.

45' but Buh has an automatic 'jury' that let's some riders in, if the 'jury' otherwise feels that too many riders are eliminated it keeps earlier groups or single riders in. That's what seems to have happened here.

If so, it should be included in the rules!

[HeidfeldFanclub]

No it's not a bug.

45' but Buh has an automatic 'jury' that let's some riders in, if the 'jury' otherwise feels that too many riders are eliminated it keeps earlier groups or single riders in. That's what seems to have happened here.

Are you kidding? Well, I trust your words, but why is that stated nowhere . Never read that in any rules and never saw this happen before. And as you (and Buh) can see, noone else knew this.

If there were a statement somewhere that this "automatic jury", the teams in the group where TB attacked from could have fought for their chance. The Joga rider in this group, also the rider of SK, rode a long time in green, later red, but after they saw it made no sense cause 45 minutes where not reachable, they stopped (Joga's rider maybe even died, don't know). TB than attacked (did not ride before, except autotempo) and is bonified by a feature with is completly unknown? I have 800 races or sohere, never saw this...

Well, in my eyes (and I have an objektive view, cause I'm not concerned), this is completly unfair - unfair the most to those people that were in the group where TB attacked from. So, than get those riders back to the tour please too, cause there teams are weaken by a feature noone knows. And please state this feature somewhere, so that it is official. Because if it is like this, it is kind of cheat for me, only some can use who know... Why should I than try to follow the known rules?

Further more, completly off that race, I think this feature sucks. There is really no need for this feature, only if it takes effect on bigger groups, not two single riders... So, for the future, sucking in Gruppetto, attacking away and saving his own riders with luck while those who worked have to go home? Great feature... Really makes me angry, we spend so much time here and than something like this - Bugs ok, can occur, but...

[HeidfeldFanclub]

I think the jury did great, if the other teams did not want to fight

Da kommt mir echt die Kotze hoch bei deinen Kommentaren hier, man man man... Sorry, translate it yourself if you like.

[Ronson]

I just would like to add, I won't ride this stage so hard if I knew that this can be happen. Because in the case I offer up 1 or two riders of my team, I make sure that I am able to kick more riders from other teams out. helpers e.g. of Austi and Joga and TBs TT-specialists for sure. That was the intention to ride the whole stage so hard. Otherwise Heid and me could kicked some other riders out but we still had 9 riders.

Nevertheless, life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.

Buh, could you please write this down in the rules or rather FAQs.

[HeidfeldFanclub]

I just would like to add, I won't ride this stage so hard if I knew that this can be happen. Because in the case I offer up 1 or two riders of my team, I make sure that I am able to kick more riders from other teams out. helpers e.g. of Austi and Joga and TBs TT-specialists for sure. That was the intention to ride the whole stage so hard. Otherwise Heid and me could kicked some other riders out but we still had 9 riders.

Same for me - it was my clearly intention to kick out those TT riders and helpers of TB, also Jogas and Bikes helpers... Plus SK, if you knew before that thing exists, you could also have saved Chacon by attacking out of the gruppetto - sucking and gruppetto attacking is bonified, really nice rule...

[Ronson]

SK, if you knew before that thing exists, you could also have saved Chacon by attacking out of the gruppetto

Sure he still have 159 energy, and he made red tempo in abfahrt befor autotempo for the group.

btw: a real jury would not save 2 riders in this case

Well, we have to play with this the next stages.

[HeidfeldFanclub]

SK, if you knew before that thing exists, you could also have saved Chacon by attacking out of the gruppetto

btw: a real jury would not save 2 riders in this case

Well, we have to play with this the next stages.

Don't know - thinking about letting the last stages go and enjoy the sun - this is really so stupid, it effects so much and it kills all the fun. Maybe I only do some fun riding, wild attacks etc, saving blue and maybe podium.

And TB - sorry, it really has nothing to do with you personally. But if you can't trust a rule, were is the sense.

[flockmastoR]

come on guys just shut up!

buhmann already said that this jury decision was bullshit (should really just be for bigger groups and i never saw this happening for single riders) and of course people know that this is implemented (ok you are right that it isnt written down somewhere and most dont know but its nothing nobody knows as you think). And I think NoPik is right when he says that the group didnt deserve to get unfavored by the "jury" (not that i think its great to attack out of gruppetto or things like that you interpretate from this). The teams in there where just stupid to not ride red and try all to survive (for what do they save their energy). So a jury would be right to kick them (and also the 2 riders attacking out at 49min)

+ you say you are not even concerned by this first

(and I have an objektive view, cause I'm not concerned

and then

it was my clearly intention to kick out those TT riders and helpers of TB, also Jogas and Bikes helpers.

oh it was your intention to kick them and you are not concerned now when they stay? hm there must be something wrong with you.

[HeidfeldFanclub]

[quote="flockmastoR"]come on guys just shut up!

The teams in there where just stupid to not ride red and try all to survive (for what do they save their energy). So a jury would be right to kick them (and also the 2 riders attacking out at 49min)[/qoute]

Incorrect - Joga, SK rode Red all the time, even green before autotempo , thats why the group was not more behind. Than TB attacked (only riding green in autotempo, not before). So the jury would be right kicking them all or none. Fact.

[flockmastoR]

didnt say anything else so why are you saying it again?

and i didnt saw the whole race i have to admit but the last 20km or so and there most of the group was in green tempo

[HeidfeldFanclub]

didnt say anything else so why are you saying it again?

and i didnt saw the whole race i have to admit but the last 20km or so and there most of the group was in green tempo

True - but those who were not are those who got handicapped... And you can't say they were stupid not to fight, because they did not know this stupid rule plus even if they would know it they were to weak to attack and save their own riders, cause they tried to save temselve plus those who only sucked. Consequence is that riding for gruppetto is even more useless now if you want "the best for your own team (Fairness rule) - better save energy, suck out and try to save your own rider by attacking and hoping the jury says its ok. At least in groups which have no chance to reach normal Karenz...

[HeidfeldFanclub]

Thank you Jury, finally you decided GIRO team classement Will you automatic jury guys pay me the difference in wage?