Italia Cycling

[auxilium torino]

USA CHALLENGE-21 hour-stage 5-field 1

Italia Cycling today again Forever, as usual, with insult,sometimes rassist
is not the first time, many italian teams are for the ban of him

RC Hypo: danke
forever: tu prima o poi le buschi stanne certo
Claw - CVIII: It's a joke
forever: gw hypo
rv-hamburg: gw
RC Hypo: oder so
Claw - CVIII: duuuuuurch
RC Hypo:
Italia ciclyng: ciao coglione e bravo x aver fatto vincere gli altri
RC Hypo: it is your place 1
Claw - CVIII: for the end ... do you still have some riders for the finish ? t block
RC Hypo: edward
RC Hypo: I would give gas
Claw - CVIII: if you are speaking to me, do it in english please
RC Hypo: 69 84
RC Hypo: ich würde gas geben ! sitter !
Italia ciclyng: hai ragione da roma in giù mi ci vuole il passaporto
forever: ^^
forever: a metà sei sempre in casa nostra
RC Hypo: dein sieg
Italia ciclyng: troppa strada magari ci troviamo a metà
Claw - CVIII: you need some help ?
forever: pensa farti tutti sti km e non sapere se riesci a tornare indietro
RC Hypo: clav fahr für deinen sprint bzw sitter
Italia ciclyng: lo avevo immaginato
forever: beh siamo terroni tutti e 2 io più di lui
RC Hypo: 82 sp fahr
Claw - CVIII: It's not Claw
RC Hypo: fahr mal ...
RC Hypo: claw es ist dein sieg....
Italia ciclyng: però abita lontano è un terrone
Italia ciclyng: si quando vuole
Italia ciclyng: sorry but is a jerk
forever: ha detto pirati che vuole incontrarti pure lui
forever: ultima cosa
Italia ciclyng: ma non scrivi
forever: I apologize to all those present for this unpleasant question, but I can not stand people who offend.even apologize to all
forever: sarai un bimbetto che vuol fare l'omone
forever: lascia perdere
Italia ciclyng: ma non scrivi
forever: non ti preoccupare non ti faccio nulla
forever: dammi skype
Italia ciclyng: ma non scrivi sto asp
forever: con i minorenni non mi ci metto di certo
forever: non fare solo chiacchere
forever: hai la patente almeno puoi venire veramente
Italia ciclyng: rimani sempre coglione
forever: si deduce che avrai si e no 15 anni
forever: vedendo che scrivi le k al posto della c
Italia ciclyng: mi diverto come lui
forever: anch'io cosa
Italia ciclyng: anchio
forever: continua
Italia ciclyng: meglio poverino k coglione
forever: guarda cè un collega che si sta divertendo come un matto
forever: sei un poverino
Italia ciclyng: non amo i froci
Italia ciclyng: no poi me lo sukki
Italia ciclyng: in privato?
forever: vuoi bisticciare, offendere andiamo in privato
Italia ciclyng: coglione
Italia ciclyng: allora scrivi
forever: solo questa è una chat di gioco
forever: e nu bello non rimangio nulla
Italia ciclyng: che fai rimangi
forever: che ti scrivo li
forever: dammi skype
Italia ciclyng: ma non scrivi
forever: hai skype
forever: ho fatto anche dei km per prenderli ma alla fine tutti conigli
Italia ciclyng: scrivi
forever: ne ho trovati tanti
Italia ciclyng: ok
forever: è una vita che aspetto questo momento
forever: e data di nascita
forever: nome e cognome
forever: ma faccio di meglio ti do' il mio indirizzo
Italia ciclyng: dammi la tua imail che così ti vengo a trovare
forever: ma ne sei veramente sicuro?
forever: ma davvero?
forever: mamma mia
Italia ciclyng: ok ci troviamo ti va
forever: hauahuahauhau
forever: no nessuna
forever: veramente ?
forever: impara a stare al mondo
Italia ciclyng: paura vero
forever: eccolo l'omone che viene fuori
forever: hauhauahauahuahuahuahau
Italia ciclyng: se vuoi ci troviamo e vediamo
forever: sei un grande
forever: sei uno di quelli che offende perchè è dietro un pc
Italia ciclyng: grazie coglione
forever: bravo complimenti
Italia ciclyng: ok offendo sei un coglione
forever: e gioca la tua gara
forever: italia cerca di non offendere
Italia ciclyng: certo che di persone stupide ce ne sono al mondo
RC Hypo:
RC Hypo: von mir aus.....
RC Hypo: tzzzz nur für deinen spass macht keinen sinn# forever
forever: ^^
RC Hypo: ja forever mit mir
forever: I think he is angry with us
RC Hypo: nein kein freund ein gegner halt und schlechter verlierer
forever:
forever: ?
forever: and this evening our friend claw
forever: ^^
forever: yes i see
RC Hypo: über 500 rennen hab ich ! forever ......
forever:
forever: but now no chances
RC Hypo: uninteresant gegen mich chancenlos ..... sorry
forever: ^^ you see the future
Hintersprenkler: Ich denke eher, daß forever mit Bailly attackieren will und schon mal seine Helfer vor geschickt hat.
forever: ^^
RC Hypo: pff ms so oder so......
forever: ahuahuahau
forever: e lo so
Italia ciclyng: vado x lo sprint
Italia ciclyng: no
Italia ciclyng: cosa vuoi
forever: non mi fai scappare
forever: italia
RC Hypo: forever er arbeitet für einen massensprint
forever: c'è qualcosa di strano
rv-hamburg: moin moin
forever:
forever: hi hypo
Team Ewok: Zuckaaaaaa!

[Pirkio]

Racist and insulting, he's one of the crap italian of this game i think we can ban him for this:" tell me your adress and i come to kill you" this is not good i don't like it and i think he have to be banned

[Zentaron]

offtopic: Everybody of you has to be banned, cause nobody reacted to the famous shoutout of good old ewok "Zuckaaaaaa!". That's insulting for all the veterans.

ontopic: I think like Pirkio. The menace of violence can't be tolerated here, no matter if he meant it like that or not. He has to get a severe punishment.

[Chense]

Same opinion as Signore Moto

[Pirkio]

[Robyklebt]

Well, I'm sure he's a nosehole, after all 99% of players here are , but he didn't really say he'll go and kill the other guy... just the old cool, let's meet in real life, then we'll see thing.

Doesn't deserve a ban.

[NoPikouze]

The menace of violence can't be tolerated here, no matter if he meant it like that or not. He has to get a severe punishment.

Typical king's words, afraid of a revolution hey ?

[Zentaron]

The last one destroyed itself. Why should i fear another one?

[auxilium torino]

jep, roby, no ban, give him a price...
the chat ist very hard, very offensive and this
Italia ciclyng: dammi la tua imail che così ti vengo a trovare
is what pirkio mean...
i have a private post(not in game, an email) from him, on the same standard...let him out of the game
do you remember turkeye(or similar), this people don't change...bye bye is the best solution

[Pirkio]

And who write imail in the 2011?

[deuseburger]

is there a way to get an actual correct translation of the relevant parts?
cause imho there is a hell of a difference between

tell me your adress and i come to kill you

and

just the old cool, let's meet in real life, then we'll see

by what i got from online translators (yap, cant trust em thats why i asked for a propper translation in my very first sentence) the latter seems to be the case ( in which case i think a fine for the one stating the false accusation in order to have this team banned is appropriate...)

[auxilium torino]

at first, Deuse, google translatore is not really good, and second, we are italian, we know what a phrase mean, what a word mean...second, that was not the only one, italia repeat several time heavies insult (coglione in italian is very heavy!, normal you say this if you search problem), rassist insult (terrone).
Third, is not the first time that Italia got a similar behaviour...
i think, for italian languages Moto and I have understand more then you, we know what we say!

[deuseburger]

nice that you know, mind sharing your wisdom?

cheers deuse

[auxilium torino]

Deuse,is not wisdom, but we are Italian, and we know then better , like you understand better german then us.
if we said that Italia behaviour was over the limit, is while we understand very good what Italia mean, an , maybe is in your point of wiew ok, but for me, rassism must be enough to ban a player.
go to Foggia or Palermo, and say at one person on the street, terrone and coglione, and i bet with you, you come at home with half of your teeth, if you can came back with your legs...
forever said to Italia more time, let it be, don't insult, and Italia insult was whenever worst

[deuseburger]

it may have nothing to do with wisdom, but it got all in the world to do with ignorance, posting more or less the same stuff twice while twice ignoring my question for an accurate translation...
we know, we judge, you dont need to know what a mental attitude...
so for the third time can you give us a correct translation??? dont dare to post your sermon again and ignore the obvious question for a third time...

cheers deuse...

[Pirkio]

Team Ewok: Zuckaaaaaa!

---
forever: italia you don't make me escape
italia: what you want? no i go for the sprint
forever: i know huahuahua

---

italia: there are a lot of stupid peolpe in the world
forever: italia play your race and try to don't offend
italia: ok i offend your a ball (ball like testicules)
forever: congratulation!
italia: thank you ball
forever: you are one of the peolpe who offend becouse is back the pc you're great!
italia: if you want we meet and see.
forever: here the big man coming out
italia: scared true?
forever: learn to live in the world (and after reply) for true? no i'm not scared huahuahua.
italia: ok we meet want to?
forever: mamma mia (can't trasnlate mamma mia too much lol!) are you serius?
italia: give me your IMAIL i come to find you
forever: i can give to you my adress, name, surname and born day.
italia: ok write
forever: i've find a lot of man like you i maked a lot of km but they are rabbit. You have skype?
italia: you don't writed it yet
forever: i don't write becouse this is one game chat
italia: ball (again)
forever: better if we continue this in pvt
italia: in pvt? no you suck my dick (italian humor isn't this this is dumb humor) i don't like gays (froci is the bad name for gay)
forever: one my friend are laughting a lot you are a poverino (ok don't know how translate it but is like poor man)
italia: better poverino than ball (again he like the balls maybe?) i'm having a fun too like your friend
forever:i see you write the k and not the c you should have 15 years old.
italia: you anyway one ball.
forever: can you drive the car? i don't want "litigare" with a child
italia: but you don't write it yet i'm waiting
forever: give me skype, don't worry i don't make nothing
(italia now tell this 2 - 3 times)
forever:last thing pirati want to talk with you.
italia: ok when he want but is a "terrone" (people of suth italy are insulted by people of the north italy they called US terroni)
forever: we are both terroni my more than him.
italia: i had supposed that.
forever: think you want make all this km and don't know if can come back later.
italia: no we meet at half too much km.
forever: at half you are always at our home (home of terroni)
italia: yes true from roma down i need the passport (this is italian humor!)
---

italia: bye ball congratulation you let him win
forever: one day someone will give you a lot of "botte"

please roby or aux translate the world i don't know

[Robyklebt]

So, let's see. In the newest thread it's written that Italia Cycling was BANNED?

For what exactly? That here?

He insults forever.
Coglione. Twice
Then "if you want we meet, then we'll see" This is just stupid, not an insult. He repeats it and comes to "give me your email and I'll come to meet you" Which ok, is very stupid since the email adress doesn't really help getting to know your real address. He repeats his wish to meet forever a few times. But doesn't mean "I kill you" Not more than Forevers: "I've waited for this moment a long time"-- "I found many"--- "I travelled many km to find them, but in the end all conigli" (rabbits, but here I think means cowards" If give me your email then we meet is a threat to kill somebody, then forever answer of course is the same. Neither is, it's just kind of stupid.
A third coglione by Italia
Furfante says lets do this in private (skype) answer: In private, no otherwise you suck it (my dick). I don't like gays. Homophobia.
coglione twice more.
then in english jerk
Then he calls pirati a terrone. Racist slur for terroni, aeh, south italians
forever "imagine, you come all this way and are not sure if you can come back" which could mean "I kill you" too..
Italia: yes, from Roma southwards I need my passport
Another Coglione at the end.
forever: Sooner or later you will be beaten up, be sure of it. Which actually is the most threatening of all the the stupid "real life threats"

So what we have is:
Italia calls forever coglione many times and jerk once
Italia makes homophobic comments
Italia makes racist comments

both make the "real life threats" And both of those can and SHOULD be completely ignored. Seriously, does anybody feel threatened if somebody says " I come to meet you?" No. And there is nothing more, there is no direct thread, I come to kill you. Actually forevers answers are almost more threatening... but doubt Italia was scared.. .that part is simply bullshit.

What remains is the things above. And clearly this needs to be punished. With a fine. A heavy one. OR a temporary ban like Sandow got once, when his anti-french ism's became too much again. Ok. But a permanent ban? COMPLETELY WRONG

Then, the bigger picture of course:

Who opens the thread: Auxilium Torino.
What are the arguments for a ban
1) he threatens to kill forever. (says Pirkio)
2) Aux has emails from Italia where Italia writes in the same way.
3) Some of the insults are racist (says Aux)
4) The whole chat is very offensive and coglione is a heavy insult in Italian (says Aux)

My analysis:
1) I say he doesn't. It's internet idiocies. He never threatens directly openly clearly. Auxilium then says Italians understand. So do germans, french etc if you give them the translations. If I tell whoever I'm having a fight with: Give me your address, let's meet!!! everybody understands that I don't want to have a talk about the olympics in London, but I'm "threatening" to beat him up. Or kill him. Whatever. And everybody with a mental age of over 12 isn't impressed with it, just shakes his head and asks himself if he couldn't come up with anything better.
2) What Italia writes in emails is irrelevant. Plus, again, it's Aux. The main accuser and the threadopener.
3) Agreed, racist and homophobic
4) Yes, it's not a nice chat, not THAT insulting but certainly insulting. Coglione a HEAVY insult... Not from what I remember, just an insult and that's it.

So? That is JUSTICE?

The same guy that opens the argument is providing additional "proof", from emails. He then repeatedly "refuses" to actually translate the chat correctly, just saying "we know what it means". And then being in the fairness committee he had a say in the proposal for punishment too.

Auxilium Torino, prosecutor, witness (providing more info) judge (allowing and disallowing what the jury can see) and jury all in one.

It looks very very much like just settling old scores here. Aux has an offensive email from Italia Cycling. He Italia misbehaving in public, seizes the opportunity to get someone he doesn't like out of the game.

1) The sentence is unjust. Overly severe. He deserves a fine or a temporary ban. I'd go for a temporary ban.
2) I demand that the fairness committee chat about this case be posted in this chat so that we can see how much information Auxilium gave to the other committee members in game. And that should be done by Buhmann, not some of you other geniuses in the committee, you'd only have me demanding your head too if you do it.
3) I demand that Auxiliums vote in the case be made public.

We know from Pirkios comment in the claw case "I say it i'm one of more active when topic is in english i was the 2 to kick out italia cycling from the game (and he was italian) if you don't know nothing avoid to talk and make the figure of ignorant thank you" that Pirkio voted "kick Italia". Not sure if I have a problem with that yet. He first "interpreted" one comment, instead of translating it, but then took the pains to translate all the important parts.

Was Auxilium Torino the second kick vote? If yes, that's very bad. With his history with the accused, insulting emails according to Aux himself, plus his refusal to provide translations here, the only thing he can do in this case is to abstain. What he can't do and is actually a BIGGER problem than Italias insult is: mislead the public (he did here) mislead the jury by not providing info or a correct translation (we don't know what he did ingame) and then vote for a ban (we don't know if he did)
The only right thing he did here was opening the thread. That is good, even if he wasn't directly involved. Racist and homophobic insults should be reported even by third parties, agreed.

This whole affair here to me looks like unbelievable abuse of power on the part of Auxilium Torino. A nice little vendetta, using his powers to get rid of a player he doesn't like. A player who deserved a punishment, that's probably clear to everyone, but whose insults by no means justify a ban.

I repeat:
1) Overturn the verdict, reopen Italias account, inform him by email of that, apologize for this miscarriage of justice. No fine anymore, but warn him to behave and give him an official -100 fairness points.

2) Suspend Aux from the committee immediately and investigate how exactly he behaved in this case
Actually for this here Aux deserves his own thread... and certainly if my suspicions about his behaviour in the ingame fairness chat and his vote turn out to be true a punishment too.

[pirati]

Roby, ho letto con molta attenzione quello che hai scritto e trovo che in alcuni punti il tuo ragionamento sia condivisibile.

é giusto per esempio dire che, chi fa la requisitoria non può essere poi il giudice, come avviene in un qualunque processo "civile". Sarebbe opportuno che chi muove le accuse sia chiamato solo ad argomentare e non ad emettere il verdetto. Questo per una questione di giustizia che deve valere per tutti, Italia Cycling compreso.

Detto questo, entro nel merito del provvedimento e degli insulti.

Io credo che sia sbagliato valutare l'insulto in funzione della sua gravità. Ognuno di noi può avere una sua scala di giudizio. Per te coglione può essere un appellativo meno ingiurioso di quello che può esserlo per un altro giocatore. Fermo restando che sempre insulto è!


é ovvio che durante le fasi di una gara un player può essere spinto da motivi prettamente sportivi a mandare qualcuno a quel paese, queste vengono definite in un regolare processo "attenuanti generiche". Nel caso specifico le attenuanti però vengo meno perchè, Italia Cycling non solo ha dato del generico coglione ma, ha continuato ripetutamente ad ingiuriare chiunque gli venisse a tiro. Credo sia questo il fatto che abbia spinto al provvedimento di espulsione. Cioè, l'evento dell'insulto non è stato un caso isolato frutto dell'ira del momento ma, bensi un comportamento che si è protratto nel tempo con una sequenza di insulti piu o meno minacciosi. La gravità del comportamento non è stata identificata tanto (o solamente) nell'insulto e nella minaccia, quanto nel comportamento che è stato continuato in una sequenza molto piu lunga del semplice...."sei un coglione" oppure..."sei un terrone".

Le stesse prerogative si possono riscontrare nel caso "pirati vs claw". L'atteggiamento del player non è solo grave per il suo comportamento palesemente e volgarmente ingiurioso, ma soprattutto perchè le sue considerazioni avvengo fuori da contesto di gara (finita già da un pezzo) e dalla reiterazione dell'insulto che si è andata a determinare nel suo comportamento nel forum. Claw sostiene di essere quasi un eroe nell'avermi insultato cosi pesantemente.

Vengo al dunque. Penso che il provvedimento di espulsione sia giusto ma, non mi scandalizzerei se lo stesso fosse rivisto parzialmente. Cosa assia piu scandalosa sarebbe se nei confronti di Claw venisse preso un provvedimento molto piu blando di quello che ha avuto Italia Cycling, perchè questo darebbe molto da pensare e certamente molta piu forza alle tue tesi.
grazie

[Pirkio]

Now let me talk about the fairplay jury..
I don't want to open another trhead but if is needed roby or buhman can take this and open a new one.

Jury is a very shit in some case i have learned it, but i want to say somethings.

1 thing: Vote should be pubblic. If i will receve a fine whant to see who want it, if are only 2 - 3 people or all the jury, maybe the chat can be secret but why don't show vote? pain of death? come on.

2 thing: Language of the jury. I talked about that a lot, and i keep on talking.. Official language of this game is Deutsch..
In the jury and fairplay almost it would be english game is not made from deutsch but some player don't seems understand this. How can this players not able to speek english be in the jury? Jury need comunication of all not only deutsch or than take open Jury only for the Deutsch speakers.

3 thing: Favoritism. Well this should be secret but like in the point 1 i don't care about secret of votes. A lot of time i saw players "not popular have an high fine (or ban like in the italia cycling case.) In other cases popular players are protect from ban and high fine.. Friend of jury .. I'm quite sure if one player with 100 races insult take 300.000 if one popular player insult take 150.000 this is patetic, first demostration of the inutility of the jury.

4 thing: Can't kick players. We can't kick players from tours, so only chance we have is try to give a fine.. Well the fine arrive in 2 weeks (maybe 3?) so what are we giving for if is too late? another demostration of the inutility of jury.

5 and last thing: Where and Who are the members? There are always the same 5 - 6 players to vote a list of all the members? and one graduatory of the good and bad job done? If one is inactive kick and give the opportunity to fresh players and english talkers. Better one active and cooperative with 200 races than one inactive with 700


If jury will not change soon i ask to be out. Don't want to fight for make this game better if i'm alone. Bye

[NoPikouze]

I'm quite sure if one player with 100 races insult take 300.000 if one popular player insult take 150.000 this is patetic, first demostration of the inutility of the jury.

Even if normally a fair judgment should mean 1 abuse = 1 and the same fine, I don't think this point is correct. Explanation: People with a lot of races have a good reputation. People with only a few races, nobody knows. Ok, give them also a chance, but often "everybody" knows if they seem to be good or bad guys, so, well, you can adapt the fine.
Also, some people with a lot of races helped to develop the game (drawing races, making languages, helping to improve stuff, making a good ambiance in 95% of the races...). So, I don't think that one and the same fine should apply.

If jury will not change soon i ask to be out. Don't want to fight for make this game better if i'm alone. Bye

100% agreed.
Oh wait I'm not in any jury.
And I don't want it anymore, at this point.

[Robyklebt]

I'm not having a theoretical discussion about how the committee should work, I'm accusing Auxilium Torino of misusing his position, of abusing his power.

[Robyklebt]

Ok, I see, nobody interested in
a) justice for Italia. The ban is way too hard compared to all other punishments given out so far.
b) probable power abuse by Auxilium Torino

Just hope Mr Torino will think twice about how to act next time he finds himself in a similar position. Not that he needs to, next time it happens and I post it here it will just be ignored as "Roby being difficult".

Good job everybody.

[deuseburger]

moin miteinander...
i just cant believe it, there is a serious accusation and since more than 72h we have no reaction at all??? (leaving the incidental taddle aside...) not even a we got a case and there is a intern discussion atm, which would be the least i guess...

to state things clear i myself can follow most of robys argumentation and from what i see there is no reason for a ban at all...
so i´m signing the repetition:

I repeat:
1) Overturn the verdict, reopen Italias account, inform him by email of that, apologize for this miscarriage of justice. No fine anymore, but warn him to behave and give him an official -100 fairness points.

2) Suspend Aux from the committee immediately and investigate how exactly he behaved in this case
Actually for this here Aux deserves his own thread... and certainly if my suspicions about his behaviour in the ingame fairness chat and his vote turn out to be true a punishment too.

cheers deuse


edith
likes everyone to notice that this post was written -but sadly not send- before! robys recent post...
even if the ape seems willing to let this be ignored be asured i´m not! there is no excuse for fucking ignorance, especialy not if its bout abuse of power...

[Robyklebt]

Ha, either Deuse is a fast writer, very fast, or he had the same thoughts as the ape.

[team fl]

was on a short holiday, will answer tomorrow. good night.