New transfer system for youth riders

[Buhmann]

Yes...

Riders are more expensive now, so it can´t be a problem. By the way: I have money problems, not too much money. Of course i am an idiot, but i think here are other idiots, too!

[NoPikouze]

Yeah, me. I earned 200k this month

Ok and back to the D5 thing. Let's try again from the begin. What is the goal ?
Unification ? Why ?
Suppress their advantage (easy market) ?

[Buhmann]

Div 4 is not easy to reach. But i want give all the possibility of cool auctions...

[Robyklebt]

And you think those money problems will go away? Everybody else gets that money too. Some invest it in GT teams, others pay more for riders, others save and buy one rider more.. Without the premium, I'm not even sure how much more the riders will cost. See the JTM. This month I won a auction for a 73-54-69-50-57 with 54 reg. By offering 95%. Didn't have the money.... so somebody else bought him for a bit under 95 percent directly then. Or I won another auction a 72 with 57 TT and excellent sideskills... didn't have enough money, nobody took him. (I didn't really want him) (And not 100% sure it was 72-57,but a very good 72 rider anyway)

To be honest I'm fairly baffled by the whole idea. Really don't see where you are going with this one.

Why is it so important to have auctions in D5? Either adding them to D1-4, or separate D5 ones? In my opinion it's just not a good system for beginners. No, don't think they are all stupid, but they simply can't understand the whole game yet. Many people will overpay for average riders, 73-46-46-54-58.. wow, sprint and TT and mountain very good, there seems to be no better combination of those 3. Then to figure out that 46 flat is really tough, and 46 downhill not so helpful either.. Those riders are bought now too... but at least at the normal price. They risk going for more.

Maybe I simply don't get it...

[NoPikouze]

But but but ...auctions are expensive ? -> you give more money to the managers -> the managers will offer higher prices in the auctions.

This is a vicious circle...
By the way this is what they call inflation

[Buhmann]

Why is it so important to have auctions in D5? Either adding them to D1-4, or separate D5 ones? In my opinion it's just not a good system for beginners. No, don't think they are all stupid, but they simply can't understand the whole game yet.

Yes, of course! But many Div 5 teams are not really beginners. That is the problem i have.

[NoPikouze]

Hmm I see the point... More people, and a fix amount of officially "good teams". What about simply adding a division ? Or make D3-D4 bigger ? but I guess they are quite big right now.
Add a division

[Rockstar Inc]

Div 4 is not easy to reach. But i want give all the possibility of cool auctions...

really? really? do you really think reaching div4 is hard?

there are teams with roundabout 130 races in div2...there are teams with less then 111 races in div3...there are even teams with under 100 races in div4

[Buhmann]

Anyway. It can be hard if you want to chance you team and so on (and yes, it is okay and sometimes good that some teams chance more riders than we do). Furthermore at the moment and mainly during the TdF it is/was much harder then for a few month.

[Robyklebt]

Again, why do you always feel you have to give everything to everybody?

IMO D5 (or the highest "non elite" division)needs advantages. But they need to fit their needs. Which are not the same for beginners and oldies, I agree. So let's try to identify what the needs, the areas where they have problems are.

For beginners?
-Weaker riders.
-lack of experience in races
-lack of experience in money management
-lack of experience in team planning

anything else?
And what advantages, specific help can the game give them, to make it easier? (I don't see auctions address any of those areas) What is already implemented (quite a few things) what isn't really solving the problem, what other solutions are there?

For oldies, restarters?
- no youth riders in 6b. (Or do they get them now?)
- lack of "challenge" in group 2?
-

For experienced managers who after a 1-2 months break are in D5
- lack of "challenge" in group 2 races?
- fear of seeing there riders end up in short term teams if they sell them before retirement?
- not automatic promotion in D4 if you start with 0 points.
-

I'm sure there are more, anybody any ideas?
And forgot other "groups" too, the not complete newcomer, 100 or so races, etc. What are their concerns and needs?

Just giving them D1-4 features might actually not address any of their concerns.

And then there is the thing about making D1-4 attractive. I think for many being at the top or being in D1 is a goal enough, don't think the "I stay in D5 on purpose" teams are as numerous as others claim, but there are some of course. But there are many who want to climb up the ladder. And many who did in the past arrived at the top and then said... well, it's the same Can we give more incentive/reward? You say money, I have my serious doubts. But maybe it is a good solution...(no it really isn't)
but ok
-money
-cool auctions
-cheapened riders since the auctioned riders, topriders for sure, risk being more expensive.
-option to ride without the green arrow
-ride important races
-

Here again, I'm sure there are lots of other possible proposals, what are they?

But let's try to see what actually addresses the problems/concerns of the different groups. Not just give all to everybody.

[Pirkio]

About youth riders..

I see a lot classic riders (50 + mountain 74 flat) with crono + sprint, this make spend you a lot of money, but i think this isn't good always, maybe is better to put sometimes riders with only crono and riders with only sprint.. both isn't always what manager want

[Buhmann]

Would be nice if somebody who has already the link to the translation-page translate the new help for the new auction system. Thank you. I can try it in english, but i started and it sound very stupud...

[gaurain rx]

New stuff on the market... Really funny What does it change exactly?

"Auction-system for Division 1-4 team : Sold riders participate on the auction system. The system is similar to the auctions of the youth riders: The sold riders start with a price of 1000% of the market value. The price decrease every minute. You have to bid min. 100%. If the rider reach the 100%, the price of the rider will decreate depending on the age like now. Then you are still able to buy this riders, but their are out of the auction system. You will see all necessary informations if you want to buy a rider."

I don't think any of the sold riders are bought for at least 90% of the price they have when they are sold... You can keep the auction stuff but you could make it more efficient I think. Do the price decrease (due to the auction part, no more cause of the age) after he reaches 100% of the riders' value... So go to auction till 90% of the value or so... Or do the price decrease faster cause of the age! You have 4538 riders on the market. There are 180 team in div 1-4... if you say there is approx 14 riders/team, you have 2520 rider there... It's just a bit more than the half of the riders on the market... Well, ok, there should be lot of riders which are old anyway.

My proposal : Do the auction go to 85 percent for sold rider untill 25 or 26 years old. A lot of riders are sold cause of presumed bad training (especially leaders)... Decreasing price could make them buy by other team where they can become leaders or good helpers.

Or

Do the price decrease faster for the young riders (till 26-27 years old). But ok, my main proposal is 1

[Rockstar Inc]

the discussion "started today"...ok you wanted to implement it...but some new facts, some more users told you their opinion...

as far as i see you did again some "stückwerk"...what about the different points for div5 roby and me mentioned? not one single comment, yes, no in the news...

you always talk about complete solutions, complete xy blabla...but it's again an unfinished part

[Buhmann]

The auction system is for very good riders important, not for any helper of course.

: 21 riders. Bug or policy, whichever it is, do something. Bug correct it.

Done.

2: New teams: Bought riders, no transfer date. Show those transfers.

Is it really true? I thought since the new design all is visible. I see that sold riders becasue of a team reset are not shown. This i have fixed now. But i did not see where the information of buying a rider is not shown.

3: FINALLY correct that bug that sends ALL riders from resets from D5-6 to the D1-4 market

Done.

[Buhmann]

the discussion "started today"...ok you wanted to implement it...but some new facts, some more users told you their opinion...

as far as i see you did again some "stückwerk"...what about the different points for div5 roby and me mentioned? not one single comment, yes, no in the news...

you always talk about complete solutions, complete xy blabla...but it's again an unfinished part

I talk about complete solutions always???

And unfinished? The auction system for sold riders are finished now. I don´t get the point. These part i implemented now has not anything to do with the other parts, why waiting??? Who knows when i have next time enough time to work for it. So now we already have something which is usefull. Don´t know why some users have always problems when i integrate something.

[Rockstar Inc]

i got a problem with your way of doing it...but it's your game, i can't do anything about it...fact...and true...but i can tell you when i think you are doing it wrong

your auction-system is nice...but what's about div5, still all advantages? still a nice buttered ass for them? still a fork in the ass of div1-4

why waiting? the teeterboard is going down at the same side again...for now div1-4 was on the ground, now we are SixFeetUnder...thank you

i got more and more the impression you do anything to please new teams or teams in the lower divisions, carry their ass on a sedan chair...but what about teams who have build this game with you? who don't play since 2,3,4 month and loose their interest?

new teams are nice and according your words needed...but don't f'n forget "old ones"

Who knows when i have next time enough time to work for it.

so we wait another 3,4 month for the next change or new function?
what's next?

you have sooooo many expirienced teams here...in different cases...general rider abbilitys, creating the race calendar, sprintsystem, value of riders, realistic simulation and on and on and on and on

i got the impression you read a topic, take 1,2 points which sound good for you and implement it when you have the time...what about the facts that aren't interesting for you? no comment on most of robyk's proposals...just "later", "when i have time", "is this really neccessary"...

it worked in the past..as example....remember your new layout? remember some discussions with Luna, Cerro, BSE etc. ..take 5,6,7,8 expirienced teams...talk with them about news, functions and implement them after a good discussion...no discussion in the style we have now...take a hidden area for you and these discussions...i know there is such an area...but nobody uses it

of course other users can post ideas in the normal board...it's needed for improvement...but decisions should be done in another area AFTER a discussion...not only picking some proposals 1,2,3 month after they were posted


you got the same damn problem like Leso...TIME

got it, but why do both of you make your life harder then it hasto be? look for HELP

you got a really active community here...but you don't use it...i told leso the same more than once




P.S. no...this post is no candidacy for such a comitee

[Radunion]

I am not sure, but maybe you created a solution to a problem that does not exist. It would be more important to implement the system for riders without name (especially 21 year old). Will this be implemented soon or is it already implemented?

I do not think that many sold riders will be bought above the official value. There are still no incentives to sell a good rider as you just get the official value (minus tax) and not the value other teams are willing to pay. And there are other factors that make sold riders less interesting (at the official value).

(1) riders increase in value even if the training is bad (it is generally cheaper to buy young riders and train them)
(2) you have less time to earn the tax for selling the riders if you buy the rider older.

The first point is difficult to address. Even if you adapt the values that a rider not automatically increase his value, but this would also influence the total team value and therefore the tax of the teams.

The second point could be addressed by reducing the tax for riders bought at older age (e.g. 5 % of the tax less for every year bought the rider older than 21, meaning that you have to pay only half your normal tax if you sell a rider you bought at the age of 31).

[Buhmann]

The high tax is another problem.

Only (before i go to bed) a comment to Franconia:

I have post here for a few weeks if anybody sees a problem with that and now you tell me such things.

new teams are nice and according your words needed...but don't f'n forget "old ones"

Again i don´t understand. This auction system is ONLY for the old ones. Maybe i have problem with english and don´t understand your complete post, not sure. Could be of course.
I complete here some things which have to be finished. And i hoped when this is done i can integrate cooler things (which makes more fun to implement...). But now i have to read this post. It is totally demotivating. Man fragt sich schon manchmal warum man sich das alles antut.

[Robyklebt]

The auction system is for very good riders important, not for any helper of course.

2: New teams: Bought riders, no transfer date. Show those transfers.

Is it really true? I thought since the new design all is visible. I see that sold riders becasue of a team reset are not shown. This i have fixed now. But i did not see where the information of buying a rider is not shown.

Good on 1 and 3!

2: Go to teams, transfer and you'll see quite a lot of these riders. "buy" date "00.00.0000"

[Quick]

The high tax is another problem.

Only (before i go to bed) a comment to Franconia:

I have post here for a few weeks if anybody sees a problem with that and now you tell me such things.

new teams are nice and according your words needed...but don't f'n forget "old ones"

Again i don´t understand. This auction system is ONLY for the old ones. Maybe i have problem with english and don´t understand your complete post, not sure. Could be of course.
I complete here some things which have to be finished. And i hoped when this is done i can integrate cooler things (which makes more fun to implement...). But now i have to read this post. It is totally demotivating. Man fragt sich schon manchmal warum man sich das alles antut.

I think what franco wants to say is: Div 1-4(the "old ones") have only disadvantages against Div 5-6Teams because of Auctions. Less good riders. More expensive riders...
Im deutschen Technikteil gibts einen JTM-Thread, da hab ich mal gefiltert, wie viele brauchbare Fahrer es für Div 5 gibt und wie viele für 1-4. Da kommt denk ich ganz gut raus, was nicht stimmt...

[Buhmann]

Versteh nicht warum man soviele Probleme damit hat wenn die Anfänger Starthilfen kriegen! Dachte eigentlich Auktionen für Div 1-4 wäre ein Vorteil nicht ein Nachteil. Ich gehe halt vom Spaßfaktor aus, nicht wie leicht es ist gute Fahrer zu kriegen. Und der Post hat sich für mich klar so angehört, dass es darum geht dass ich zu wenige für die Veteranen mache, sondern nur für die Anfänger. Und das it ja mal ganz klar in Bezug auf investierte Zeit bezogen und da kann ich das halt gerade überhaupt nicht nachvollziehen. Eher umgekehrt: Eien Lösung für die Anfänger ist immernoch nicht gefunden was den TM angeht. Für Div 1-4 ist man einen Schritt weiter.

[team fl]

Also ich find die Auktionen super

[NoPikouze]

Imo, newcomers don't need so much help. What they need is a bit of help to understand the game, to know how to play, that kind of things.
But they don't need simply extra money...
What is the real problem ? They cannot compete versus D1 teams. Well, that's ok, not a problem. We all went through that. And we're still alive
But to keep them interested in the game, give them their races! (more often)

And about the increasing amount of teams, and of "good" teams. Again, add another intermediate division (make it D1-5 vs D6-7). There are 40-50 "good" teams in D5 right now. I think this would be a good option for everybody.

Last but not least, we love you!! Don't take it bad, we just want to help...

[Rockstar Inc]

you don't understand it eh?

you said it...you don't know when you have time to do something again...till that date div1-4 has another disadvantage more than before..auctions are nice, no question about it...but the lower divs got still more advantages...cut them some of them...yes, completely new teams, they can have SOME of them...what's the advantage to be in a higher div? there is only ONE advantage left...Monuments...but even this should be cut by you..i remember your words..."yeah all races for everybody and yeah it's bad when new teams can't ride big races blablabla..."
they don't deserve to ride this races...in RL the bigger races are for an exclusive circle of teams...not every red-black-herne cyclingteam can participate...they have to earn it...same with good riders, talents and stuff like that...earn it with victorys, higher divs

there are some proposals for div5,how do deal, implement whatever at the tm and so on in the board since month...but you put your time in the auctions for sold riders? really? please finish one area, before you start with another...

Div5:
8 Teams with 1356 to 1015 races
12 teams with 946 to 704 races
29 teams with 691 to 405 races
58 teams with 405 to 202 races
101 teams with 201 to 100 races

these 208!!! teams are no beginners...there are several reasons why they are in div5...for example: better TM, not soo much races each month, started again playing RSF some time ago and some more...they don't need candy in their ass...

and please don't come with the bullshit argument "i don't see any div5 team dominating div1 teams"...that argument doesn't count at all