August 2025

[olmania]

[TDM_Luxembourg]

Vuelta finished.
Maybe some Ol, Gip, Hansa critic possible?

I havent looked at any Vuelta profiles. Maybe i find some time on sunday.

A quick look from me now on the first part of the Vuelta (no time to check all % of climbs; mostly key parts and last kms) :
First of all, the lack of details of official website, makes it quite difficult. Also for flamme rouge, who made design mistakes because of that lack of info in the past few weeks (it's been corrected/updated as of now, but it's possible that updates will be needed later in August, before the Vuelta starts.

stage1, looks ok for me even if you have 2 more kms than the real distance (I don't know from where).
stage2, you lack 4kms maybe there ? but design looks good. Final climb : looks quite flatish, a few 6% here and there max. found different profiles online; hard to tell exactly where is 4-5-6%; but agree last km seems to be a bit steeper; but I'd say a 6%, not a 7%. not very important anyway; key thing is to have only orange km and a few 6%, that's it.
stage3 : official website says 135kms, flamme rouge and your design have 140. if flamme rouge is right, last km should be 5%
stage4 : some changes done here by the organizers; stage has to be longer with a different last 40kms. slighlty uphill on the finish line too (2-3% ?)
stage 5 : 20kms for flamme rouge, 24 for official website. here it makes a difference. a little bit of % in the last kms on official profile
stage6 : all good for the kms there !
stage7 : 1km missing maybe. profile looks good, last climb very irregular, could be checked km/km and have different interpretation as usual on such climb.
stage8 : maybe a few kms missing. last km could be a 0% maybe
stage 9 : looks ok, last kms could be reviewed if details available. looks like last km more flat, but a km before a bit steeper.
stage10 : might miss a few kms again. last climb with a flatish end, looks ok.

Thank you, will change some stuff quick

[Robyklebt]

This post probably better off here.

Hi all,

I usually never post in calendar coördination since I have no involvement with it at all, but now I come to you with a bit of an odd request:

Would it be possible to add a TTT as a fantasy race before the Vuelta starts, ideally without overlap with Denmark or Pologne? This would be either 11/8, or anywhere between 18/8-22/8. I'm asking because a lot of new teams, including myself, have never ridden a TTT before and the one in the Vuelta scares me, since it looks like there's waaay more tactics involved compared to a regular TT... So a fantasy TTT would be a great practise for all the new teams, so they don't all lose several minutes in Vuelta .

Thank you in advance for taking this into consideration!

[Falcor CC]

Thank you

[Laugenspitze]

I designed a TTT, if needed.

[Bugatti]

All stages at Denmark are signed as mountain. dont think thats right

[TDM_Luxembourg]

All stages at Denmark are signed as mountain. dont think thats right

It is, for making the points realistic

[TDM_Luxembourg]

You could classify all stages as "Mountain" to reflect that, but now it's bit of question of Taste, because the description of "Mountain" is not ideal for Denmark So either points or description will not be perfect^^ So you can decide.

[Hoefs Cycling Team]

yes, in order to have the points for the points jersey most realistic in combination with the intermediate sprint:I have designated all stages as mountain stages.
In real race, IT has no points for this jersey. In C4F it is now possible, because I cannot set the IT bonus to TTT: something for the administrators?
Then the points for the sprint jersey is the most realistic.

[Radunion]

I think we should aim to get real points on small tours as well. Until we have it, I see no reason to change the race type to get closer to the real thing. Saying this, it is only realistic if we can add it to the editor. The solution for the GTs is certainly not feasible. When it was last discussed, there were some voices against it. So we need developer time as well as some kind of agreement for this.

[Radunion]

I do not think it is a good idea to only offer a TTT on 11th. I know it was requested, but that does not mean we have to force everybody to ride it. In addition riding it on a day between tours makes it a reg issue. For me that means riding it with a B team or not at all. At the moment it is just 5 races on this day (4 TTT one 1 Portugal), so we could add a normal race. 3+3 would have been an option but maybe it is too late to remove one TTT edition.

[olmania]

I do not think it is a good idea to only offer a TTT on 11th. I know it was requested, but that does not mean we have to force everybody to ride it. In addition riding it on a day between tours makes it a reg issue. For me that means riding it with a B team or not at all. At the moment it is just 5 races on this day (4 TTT one 1 Portugal), so we could add a normal race. 3+3 would have been an option but maybe it is too late to remove one TTT edition.

Agree to add another race in // of TTT. Currently 1 time of the TTT have no registered team; so removing it should be doable.

[cataracs]

We only get a TTT once every two months, so having it alone should be fair. Same for Pavés races and Itt's.

But I thought of a better way to increase the participations in these special races for the future.

[Radunion]

But I thought of a better way to increase the participations in these special races for the future.

Not doing it the day before a tour would help. But okay, I can survive with two days of very limited game time, barely.

[drei.zehn]

We only get a TTT once every two months, so having it alone should be fair. Same for Pavés races and Itt's.

But I thought of a better way to increase the participations in these special races for the future.

ITTs are never alone, its always with a second race and it would be nice here too. Some teams really have nothing to race for in an TTT

And if you come out of poland tour you have 2 days without any race action

[flockmastoR]

ITTs are never alone, its always with a second race and it would be nice here too

Well this is simply not true. First of all there are real races (Crono de nations) that usually don't have a side race and there are fantasy classics in the winter fantasy calendar without side program. In the calendar, you even find fantasy ITT/TTT races without a one day races parallel (at least in some month in 2018 I was clicking through).

[drei.zehn]

ITTs are never alone, its always with a second race and it would be nice here too

Well this is simply not true. First of all there are real races (Crono de nations) that usually don't have a side race and there are fantasy classics in the winter fantasy calendar without side program. In the calendar, you even find fantasy ITT/TTT races without a one day races parallel (at least in some month in 2018 I was clicking through).

Didnt know we look back to the time of King Arthur
Just talking about the last 1-2 years I remember

[flockmastoR]

ITTs are never alone, its always with a second race and it would be nice here too

Well this is simply not true. First of all there are real races (Crono de nations) that usually don't have a side race and there are fantasy classics in the winter fantasy calendar without side program. In the calendar, you even find fantasy ITT/TTT races without a one day races parallel (at least in some month in 2018 I was clicking through).

Didnt know we look back to the time of King Arthur
Just talking about the last 1-2 years I remember

Then don't write something like "never alone", also the thing about the real races is not that far back, I guess it is still the standard (when no other real race on that day)

[cataracs]

We only get a TTT once every two months, so having it alone should be fair. Same for Pavés races and Itt's.

But I thought of a better way to increase the participations in these special races for the future.

ITTs are never alone, its always with a second race and it would be nice here too. Some teams really have nothing to race for in an TTT

And if you come out of poland tour you have 2 days without any race action

We had a TTT alone in May, an ITT alone in June. Some teams also have nothing for a sprint race or a mountain race...

There are no rules about that, maybe the Donkey got you used to bullying TTT's but I'm for increasing the importance of TT and Paves riders.

[Hansa]

i am totally fine with the TTT alone, i also dont see the problem 1 day before the tour, because you normally dont go under reg in a short ttt? or am i mistaken? i still wont ride it, my low reg guys needs the extra rest day and without them my salary is to high^^

[Robyklebt]

Ignorance is bliss: Or: You guys blabber about stuff you seem not to know anything about.


So the Donkey, helpful as usual, decided to give you a c4f history lesson.

Pavé 1 day races

Early years of c4f: Soon people with pavé riders discovered that there were basically no races where pavé played a role from May to January/FEbruary. After asking for some pavé races in the pavé off-season lesossies, calendar buddha of c4f decided to put in 2 pavé races per month. That policy hasn't changed at least until now Taka took over. No idea what his policy is... Of course it's harder for AAD first and Taka now to find the pavé races, since the new editor/upload tool brilliantly has no sensible classification of stages. But since both of them haven't given any indication that they see that as a minus... no excuse for not finding pavé races. Anyway, 2 pavé races a month is basically the rule since 2007 or late 2006 maybe. Of course sometimes forgotten, of course we had Pokemon who thought he hnew better and put on 4 or 5 pavé races one month "Because I like pavé" followed by 0 the next month "because there is none available"... But in principle, maybe not fact we have had our 2 pavé races per month in months without real pavé races.

TT-TTT one day races

TT and TTT we never had any regular one day TT or TTT races until some people asked for it during my glorious reign as calendar assistant. So ok, I introduced 1 per month. Alternating TT and TTT. That of course was occasionally forgotten too, so some month we still got 0.
Then in the period when Flash was gone, only usable through tricks, but the react version couldn't handle TTs yet we had 0 TTs. Made no sense to program a race that those that were already using react couldn't race. At some point got the idea to have 2 races on the TT and TTT days, then the react people could ride the normal race, while the TT fanatic Flash users could ride their TT/TTTs, and the non-TT fanatic flash users could choose. Since it somehow seemed to make sense to give people the choice regarding TT and TTTs continued that even when react became TT compatible. After all TTs as one day races never seemed to be overly popular and unlike pavé races are generally well represented in stage races.

History lesson over.

Now let's talks sense

No idea what Taka plans to do now, but for me 1 TT or TTT as one day race per month is actually not necessary. See above, we have TTs and some TTTs regularly in stage races. I don't mind the occasional TTT as one day race either, we even have one as off season classic, which I like. For me something like a TTT every 3 months sounds good. Gives us practice, gives the newcomers practice and if it's not too often they are interesting to ride. 1 TT as one day race every 6 month would be fully ok... With the TT offered parallel to a normal road race. IMO more here not really needed, count the amount of TTs we already have per month. In stage races, yes, but unlike for pavé the argument: "without the fantasy one day races we have an expensive rider that isn't useful for most of the season" doesn't hold. Also they are incredibly boring, unless ridden with me. I then entertain people in the chat with informative comments.
But if people insist on a monthly TT, either ITT or TTT, can survive that too, ideally at least the TT would have a parallel race, but if not... oh well, not the end of the world.

[cataracs]

Stage 3 in Benelux is correct as it is now? Just *?

[flockmastoR]

No idea what Taka plans to do now, but for me 1 TT or TTT as one day race per month is actually not necessary. See above, we have TTs and some TTTs regularly in stage races. I don't mind the occasional TTT as one day race either, we even have one as off season classic, which I like. For me something like a TTT every 3 months sounds good. Gives us practice, gives the newcomers practice and if it's not too often they are interesting to ride. 1 TT as one day race every 6 month would be fully ok... With the TT offered parallel to a normal road race. IMO more here not really needed, count the amount of TTs we already have per month. In stage races, yes, but unlike for pavé the argument: "without the fantasy one day races we have an expensive rider that isn't useful for most of the season" doesn't hold. Also they are incredibly boring, unless ridden with me. I then entertain people in the chat with informative comments.
But if people insist on a monthly TT, either ITT or TTT, can survive that too, ideally at least the TT would have a parallel race, but if not... oh well, not the end of the world.

Yes and no. I kind of liked to have 1 TT/TTT a month, basically for newcomers to practice. It takes some time to master those kind of races and it is better to practice 3-4 before you fail completely with an expensive team at a GT (ok you learn a lot there too). BUT [and now I am talking to the designer of these races] it would make sense to have a broader variety of profiles in those races. Ultra long ITT with hills, ultra long TTT, with hills or cobble or very steep downhill, with 5, 7, 9 riders. I am in favor offering parallel races in general but can also understand that having more teams in those ITT/TTT races CAN make it more intersting. But for 95% of the [designed] races so far it was clear from the beginning who's gonna win it.

[olmania]

Renewi tour, quick review :

In the road book, there is a "CP Superflandien8" classification, with 2 each stage. it's a quite complex classfication; we could translate it to IS for more interesting things to happen in game; but would not be super accurate ofc. ignoring it is good as well.

stage 1 : there is a cobble section km61. I'd say ** according to street view. Green km, 3 sprints in a row, km 157.

stage 2 : green km with 3 IS is km153. almost 500 of D+ irl, only 150m in RSF. plenty of tiny climbs, not worth any sieb; but maybe a 2 or even a 3% here and there. 4 laps of circuits IRL, I see clearly on the graph only 2 in rsf.

stage 3 : final circuit could be a little more hilly. I am not an expert of the cobble climbs; but most of them already ridden in spring classics, right ? Are they all only * there ? Need a check or two about that. also maybe an opinion about a specialist of designing these climbs. green km with 3 IS km153.

stage 4 : half of d+ "missing in c4f". last km as a 3% is ok even if 2% also good. green km w 3 is km142

stage 5 : again lots of d+ "missing". climbs are very short, so it's 2-3% in tour final circuit. it would not shock me if there were some 4-5%. 3climbs in a row in final circuit, maybe 3% 4% and 2%; or even 4% 5% and 3%; cause IRL it's probably going to be a hard race there, for strong riders on small roads with lots of ups and down; and probably not an easy MS. km28, km57, km 87, km116, could be a 6%. green km missing km163.

As designed now, in RSF, it's 4 MS possible (quite easily). IRL, I guess it's going to be 2-3 (depending on the wind on stage one); and race pace on stage 4.

[olmania]