March 2025

[Hansa]

I prefer everything at 20h

[zizou]

I'd prefer Tirreno in the morning instead of PN

+1

Or at least Tirreno at 14h

[Elaska]

good luck Gip

[lennylenny]

Simple solution: All Tours 5 editions each

[flockmastoR]

So a general remark on TA/PN editions, with 2/2 editions there is always alternation between morning vs afternoon, early vs. late evening. I would really not question this procedure as it allows everybody to ride the preferred tour at the preferred time every second year.

So given that TA stays in the afternoon, I would prefer to keep it at 15h (personal preference)

I think Catalunya should just get 3 editions, last year we had 4 and afternoon really had bad participation. Afternoon the one to cut for sure (2021 last time it was cut in the afternoon), afternoon parallel classics had ok participation (the classics had really low participation in general during Catalunya.

[drei.zehn]

So a general remark on TA/PN editions, with 2/2 editions there is always alternation between morning vs afternoon, early vs. late evening. I would really not question this procedure as it allows everybody to ride the preferred tour at the preferred time every second year.

So given that TA stays in the afternoon, I would prefer to keep it at 15h (personal preference)

I think Catalunya should just get 3 editions, last year we had 4 and afternoon really had bad participation. Afternoon the one to cut for sure (2021 last time it was cut in the afternoon), afternoon parallel classics had ok participation (the classics had really low participation in general during Catalunya.

Also für mich passen die Startzeiten. Nizza und Catalunya morgens für mich (wahrscheinlich).
Nur das klingt, als würde man wirklich sämtliche Wünsche ignorieren ;D der jährliche Wechsel, ok. Aber dann gab es 3 Wünsche für 14 Uhr…

Glaube generell ist 14 Uhr viel beliebter. Nicht statistisch belegt, hab hier nur noch gelesen, dass sich jemand 15 Uhr wünscht. Eher früher 13h


Alles 0 überprüft, nur aus den dunklen Ecken der Erinnerungen an vergangene Forums Beiträge beurteilt

[flockmastoR]

So a general remark on TA/PN editions, with 2/2 editions there is always alternation between morning vs afternoon, early vs. late evening. I would really not question this procedure as it allows everybody to ride the preferred tour at the preferred time every second year.

So given that TA stays in the afternoon, I would prefer to keep it at 15h (personal preference)

I think Catalunya should just get 3 editions, last year we had 4 and afternoon really had bad participation. Afternoon the one to cut for sure (2021 last time it was cut in the afternoon), afternoon parallel classics had ok participation (the classics had really low participation in general during Catalunya.

Also für mich passen die Startzeiten. Nizza und Catalunya morgens für mich (wahrscheinlich).
Nur das klingt, als würde man wirklich sämtliche Wünsche ignorieren ;D der jährliche Wechsel, ok. Aber dann gab es 3 Wünsche für 14 Uhr…

Glaube generell ist 14 Uhr viel beliebter. Nicht statistisch belegt, hab hier nur noch gelesen, dass sich jemand 15 Uhr wünscht. Eher früher 13h


Alles 0 überprüft, nur aus den dunklen Ecken der Erinnerungen an vergangene Forums Beiträge beurteilt

1) Wenn ich nichts übersehen habe sind es 2 Stimmen für 14h (zizou+Narren) und 2 Stimmen für 15h (Let's Go und ich).
2) Der Vorschlag von Gip war ebenfalls 15h, die Zeiten am Nachmittag werden meiner Meinung nach gut zwischen 14 und 15 Uhr abgewechselt
3) Sich vorsorglich über fehlende Wunscherfüllung zu beschweren, wo noch nicht mal entschieden wurde was rauskommt (und es ja nichtmal dein Wunsch ist, oder verstehe ich deinen Beitrag zu Nizza jetzt falsch) ist auch unnötig

[Schnuggeritos]

So a general remark on TA/PN editions, with 2/2 editions there is always alternation between morning vs afternoon, early vs. late evening. I would really not question this procedure as it allows everybody to ride the preferred tour at the preferred time every second year.

Absolutely understandable. Didn't know (maybe I forgot) there was this procedure. Didn't check last years time tbh.
I was only interested in discussing for a possible swap and didn't want an additional edition. Afternoons tend to be a problem for me and the TTT at PN just doesn't appeal to me

[Gipfelstuermer]

Final PDF

- TA gets the additional 18h version. Take this as a bonis because TA seems more popular indeed, and early evening was requested. The 2x2 principle with swapping times each year will remain relevant. I know parallel programme might suffer but it will anyway, because it's all fantasy. For the rest of the month, one day races have the more prominent spots though.
- Catalunya down to 3 editions.
- Fantasy World Championships on the only day without real races (Mo, 17th) but will need Alk to confirm.

[Robyklebt]

Catalunya cutting the early evening is weird

24: 4 editions
23: morning cut
22: early evening cut
21: afternoon cut

Would have been the afternoon's turn. Now of course 21-23 that was balanced out because Pais Vasco and Romandie only had 3 editions each as well, so all times except the evening (rightly, it is strongest) missed one. This year I suspect we won't cut Pais Vasco and Romandie down to 3? That's the reason I said keeping it at 4 would be easiest, now easiest becomes to cut the 2 others as well, but I'll argue for that in March...

Other reason for cutting the afternoon would have been that it was clearly the weakest last year. Not that the rest was strong, but with only 5 afternoon was rather clearly the weakest. As AAD mentioned in time btw.

Reasons to cut the early evening? It gets the extra Tirreno, that I see. Otherwise?
In February participation in the "pure" early evening was far from weakest, only 2 tours offered, 13 average. The oh so always needed 20h got 10.5 average with the 2 editions. If we count all as early evening, that's 11.75 average. The morning got 3 races, 11.66 average, the afternoon got 3, 11 teams average, extended with 13 got 4, 10.75 average then, the evening 21-23 got 3 ignoring Gran Camino, for an average of 13.666. With Gran Camino the average will possibly go down, since nobody in his right mind will ride this instead of Het Nieuwsblad.
So I don't really see why it's the early evening, especially if defined a la Donkey as 17-19 gets the short stick once again, when the numbers despite the widely spread misinformation are generally perfectly fine. IMO not the right decision. But too late. This btw shows why the old Luques practice of an updated preview around the 20st was pretty good. Like this, especially if Gipfel then doesn't give any indication in the calender thread of what his going to do, we end up having to write well thought out, perfectly argued and absolutely convincing stuff after the finald PDF. (I used the royal "we" btw) Some indication earlier "I tend to....,but might change" even without the additional preview would help. Gipfel then still can decide to do whatever he thinks is best, but at least he gets more arguments for and against stuff in time.

Hm, somebody mentioned Het Nieuwsblad a few lines up...
Still not designed, still not checked, ok ok ok , the Donkey, VERY RELUCTANTLY and protesting against a ton of things (he'll only mention the editor that is improvement resistant, it was passable when new, not acceptable now that so much time has passed) will do it. And try to help with the rest of the one day races too, but he won't touch Strade Bianche, I checked wrote down what's different, if somebody wants to do it, he has the necessary info to spend hours on the editor copying stuff here and there, backward and forward, with a "ablage" and what not.
Anyway, Donkey will do Het Nieuwsblad (later, now he goes and watches TV, eat an icecream and maybe some cookies) and do the tiny adjustment (that will still take way too long thanks to the missing improvements in the editor) at the start of this year's Milano-Sanremo
Actually that's the reason for this post, all the rest is just additional info, since I'm writing anyway, why not hand out some wisdom....

[Robyklebt]

Done, mintact at 160, checks if I forgot anything in the editor maybe a good idea...

Details in the important races/Classiques Belges thread.

[team fl]

Only one day left in February after today to set the form for March 2025. It would be nice to have at least the already designed races in the calendar preview ingame.

Most classic races are the same than last year or at least similar. So for everybody with form anxiety, have a look at the 2024 editions or visit the official websites as help, if the profiles are not online until tomorrow 23:59 CET .

[Elaska]

Yes would be good to have PN and TA now to compare

[Robyklebt]

Milano Sanremo done.
2 km longer, First 45 km become 42, then a short detour later, from km 92 all the same as last year. Completely irrelevant really, ok, due to an additional sliiiiiiiiight hill the charging will be harder I guess... maybe only 5 fit riders instead of 6 in Tortona.. But route should be correct now.

[Robyklebt]

Checked Le Samyn, change in the final circuit, so redo the easiest, will do it tomorrow.

[Schartner Bombe]

Milano-Torino done.

Only a question, did you see and check this on the official website too?
https://www.milanotorino.it/en/the-route/

Torino.png (228.5 KiB) Viewed 1312 times

[Robyklebt]

Le Samyn done



Not important enough to write down what is what, finish stays at 2, according to Flamme rouge 3 is better, but on their site and the uploaded gpx, it say 25 meters up in the last km, with the first part steeper, so 2% still seemed fine. Mintact 32km to make everybody unhappy with 30km happy (+2 km really because at 31 there's the hardest pavé (1**) of the race...

[Robyklebt]

Laigueglia checked too

Trofeo Laigueglia => same issue as Drome about the distance, should be 10kms less, but don't see where there are the ones to remove. Micheri climb should be 8/8 and not 8/7 imo, but no big deal. Profile of last year can be used without big problem imo. if someone has time to re-design it by hand, why not !

https://www.laiguegliailborgodamare.com ... ueglia.png

They write 190.7 at the end, but Andora, 4km from the end is at 192.4.... So it's 196.5 or something like that even for them. Then we have 2-3 km too many at the start, official start is in Alassio. Then we are at 199 vs 197, good enough,

Micheri should be 8 8 though I agree.

[Robyklebt]

Should have done it in one post:

2" analysis of Criquielion says it's the same as 24.

Monseré-idiots do tiny little changes that are probably easiest deal with a re-draw....Donkey doesn't volunteer.

E3 to me looks the same, no 100% guarantee, but looking at the classique belges thread and their site, seems the same as last year. Not 100%, but pretty sure, could be put online I guess.

De Panne shorter, Donkey volunteers for that one. But later later, in March.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Looking at the maps there seem to be 2 places where the route is different from 2024 (without guarantee, I just found 2)

1) km 16, take a shorter way, but more gravel. 3.5 shorter after.
2) From Ponte d'Arbia to Monteroni d'Arbia. New gravel sector, before it was following the main road. A bit longer than the old route, so the difference then is 1.7 km but probably taken in a different place, after that the difference becomes 2.1 and stays like that till the end.

Easier to take the 2024 version, cut km 16 to x design and add the new kms there, cut km 101 to 112 design and add the new version there.

Thanks and done:



Also visible in calendar preview.

[ECS Cycling]

Milano-Torino done.

Only a question, did you see and check this on the official website too?
https://www.milanotorino.it/en/the-route/

Torino.png

I did, but I must have missed the final section, it's fixed now.

[Robyklebt]

Donkey after all volunteers for stupid Monseré, but will only have time tomorrow.

[Robyklebt]

Monseré done, stupid little changes. Looks slightly different now, 2*** instead of 1***, their website says it's 1.5 km, so both ok. And 1.2 or 1.1 km long, so at +2 even more selective, probably fits, looks like a proper *** to me.
Couldn't find any info about intermediates on their site, shitloads of symbols in the 50km lap, but no idea what they mean, so after many last year for the moment we have 0 this year. If Gipfel finds something of course he's welcome to put them in...

199 km, should be 201... circuit 54.6, 54 here, doesn't matter. Did the mintact just before the last Lookhuisstraat anyway, 2*** then nice 40km mintact.

[Bugatti]

Is it possible to change the min tact at PN stage 8 from km73 to km108?
It's a short stage, but we don't need 50km min tact and it's a Sunday
At least at km95 it should be possible.

[olmania]

Is it possible to change the min tact at PN stage 8 from km73 to km108?
It's a short stage, but we don't need 50km min tact and it's a Sunday
At least at km95 it should be possible.

I don't do un-necessary long mintakt. Other stages have rather short ones.
Here it made sense imo; final stage is a key stage where moves and plenty of things can happen. The stage being short allows the longer mintakt and the full stage is 1h30, which is ok. Other designers would have put mintakt km33 there
But if it feels necessary, Gip can change the mintakt, even if it seems a bit late for it.