August 2024

[flockmastoR]

I disagree, do not take Germany out, but make the Vuelta more attractive by adding Limousin directly before the Vuelta (13. - 16). I believe a Grand Tour is interesting enough for teams without making the parallel program less attractive. I see little reason not to ride tours where World Tour teams can participate (okay not 3 parallel tours if one is a Grand Tour, so no Hainan even if there is enough information to draw it). I believe we should have gone for Norway as well, but maybe it is too late for this now. If we decide to add those tours I should even be able to draw one on the weekend.

And do not get me wrong. This is not about my team, as I am not sure I would ride either of them.

I would really ask you to take Gip's statements seriously and not just comment after his final pdf has been published. He has clearly stated that the cancellation of Germany is up for discussion. Ok Gip may have been early with the final pdf this month (at least I think 25th is his usual deadline) but you already found time to comment on other things here, two people supported the idea of cutting Germany, nobody opposed the idea.

[Gipfelstuermer]

It's the first time since years we had 5x TDF.
It's the first time since years we have Portugal.
It's the first time since years we have 5x Burgos.

So, the day we have enough players, I am very happy to include Norway, Deutschland Tour, Poitou, Limousin and Hainan. But that's in a case of 200 players per day and not 100 per day

[schappy]

It is the right and its his decision. I like to plan my next month so it isnt to early.
Deutschlandtour isnt very important at the moment and we have enough tours this month, so everthing is fine. Everybody can do something to bring more players here, then we can ride the Deutschlandtour next year.

[Radunion]

I disagree, do not take Germany out, but make the Vuelta more attractive by adding Limousin directly before the Vuelta (13. - 16). I believe a Grand Tour is interesting enough for teams without making the parallel program less attractive. I see little reason not to ride tours where World Tour teams can participate (okay not 3 parallel tours if one is a Grand Tour, so no Hainan even if there is enough information to draw it). I believe we should have gone for Norway as well, but maybe it is too late for this now. If we decide to add those tours I should even be able to draw one on the weekend.

And do not get me wrong. This is not about my team, as I am not sure I would ride either of them.

I would really ask you to take Gip's statements seriously and not just comment after his final pdf has been published. He has clearly stated that the cancellation of Germany is up for discussion. Ok Gip may have been early with the final pdf this month (at least I think 25th is his usual deadline) but you already found time to comment on other things here, two people supported the idea of cutting Germany, nobody opposed the idea.

I commented before and got no reaction. Yes, I did not care enough to follow up, so I will accept the decision. I do not think it is the best way forward if we handle it like in July where we included tours just because they were designed early enough without coordination in the thread. And I still think it is better to have all the tours and fewer editions. Again, my opinion, but not my decision as I did not invest enough time into it.

[flockmastoR]

I disagree, do not take Germany out, but make the Vuelta more attractive by adding Limousin directly before the Vuelta (13. - 16). I believe a Grand Tour is interesting enough for teams without making the parallel program less attractive. I see little reason not to ride tours where World Tour teams can participate (okay not 3 parallel tours if one is a Grand Tour, so no Hainan even if there is enough information to draw it). I believe we should have gone for Norway as well, but maybe it is too late for this now. If we decide to add those tours I should even be able to draw one on the weekend.

And do not get me wrong. This is not about my team, as I am not sure I would ride either of them.

I would really ask you to take Gip's statements seriously and not just comment after his final pdf has been published. He has clearly stated that the cancellation of Germany is up for discussion. Ok Gip may have been early with the final pdf this month (at least I think 25th is his usual deadline) but you already found time to comment on other things here, two people supported the idea of cutting Germany, nobody opposed the idea.

I commented before and got no reaction. Yes, I did not care enough to follow up, so I will accept the decision. I do not think it is the best way forward if we handle it like in July where we included tours just because they were designed early enough without coordination in the thread. And I still think it is better to have all the tours and fewer editions. Again, my opinion, but not my decision as I did not invest enough time into it.

The question was whether or not to cut Germany, you suggested another tour and generally told us that you liked more parallel tours.

[Radunion]

I hope I was not too direct with my input. I really appreciate the work you do. So far, I focused more on reading and learning how things work. My plan was to involve myself more in the discussion in the future but do not expect all my suggestions to be followed. So maybe I annoy you a bit more with stats about race sizes, how many races, and how many editions we should have as I am more in favor of clear rules and less about individual decisions.

At the moment I disagreed more with the reasoning and not so much with the decision. That we should make the parallel program for the Vuelta less attractive (to have more teams at the Vuelta).

[olmania]

I hope I was not too direct with my input. I really appreciate the work you do. So far, I focused more on reading and learning how things work. My plan was to involve myself more in the discussion in the future but do not expect all my suggestions to be followed. So maybe I annoy you a bit more with stats about race sizes, how many races, and how many editions we should have as I am more in favor of clear rules and less about individual decisions.

At the moment I disagreed more with the reasoning and not so much with the decision. That we should make the parallel program for the Vuelta less attractive (to have more teams at the Vuelta).

I am not sure the participation in // of the Vuelta is highly influenced by the // program. Vuelta has a very specific design, where more than half of the stages are hilltop finish. I think the design can attract plenty of teams (many teams have climbers !); but many others probably don't have interest/fun in most stages, so in participating in the race in general.
When a major race is so specialized for one kind of rider (like Vuelta soon, or Swiss tour recently in the past), I think it's important that the // program offers something more interesting than one day races not known/planned in advance. Also if possible, it's important than the // does not offer the exact same kind of race (with plenty of hilltop finish).

[Robyklebt]

9 of 21 is not more than half.

[flockmastoR]

I hope I was not too direct with my input. I really appreciate the work you do. So far, I focused more on reading and learning how things work. My plan was to involve myself more in the discussion in the future but do not expect all my suggestions to be followed. So maybe I annoy you a bit more with stats about race sizes, how many races, and how many editions we should have as I am more in favor of clear rules and less about individual decisions.

At the moment I disagreed more with the reasoning and not so much with the decision. That we should make the parallel program for the Vuelta less attractive (to have more teams at the Vuelta).

Discussion is always wanted, continue with that. My main point was timing (do it before the final pdf is published)!
Statistics about race sizes is always welcome and might strengthen your argument.

I think clear rules are not applicable in most cases, as it is also a question of balance and the prediction of the future is always hard. In the end someone has the final decision to be made (Gip).

[Hansa]

BTW in the pdf vuelta portugal ends on the 4th (it does in reality) but our 11 stage tour ends on the 3rd, i can inscribe for the 4th again, because we missed the rest day on the 29th^^

[Tukhtahuaev]

As usual thought about it a bit late, but is there a place for a fantasy pavé race?

I will design Benelux when there is more info around. Profiles are already there, just no info about intermediate etc.

[flockmastoR]

As usual thought about it a bit late, but is there a place for a fantasy pavé race?

I will design Benelux when there is more info around. Profiles are already there, just no info about intermediate etc.

Special type fantasy races:

Pavé races/races with pave:
09.08. Puchar Gdańsk: flat with max pave of ****, relatively close to the finish line, More a race with pavé
21.08. Grolloo - Assen: flat hard pave race (****,***** all over) but with a relatively long passage after the last sector
PS: missing some hillier pave races in Europe/everywhere but nice job of Tukh providing a bunch of pave races

TTT
07.08. Raspenau - Haindorf TTT, very mountainous team time trial (morning and early evening)

[Robyklebt]

Since AAD asked in the chat about comments/complaints/criticism/whining about the fantasy calendar, here we go:

Times: 2 for 13h, last time I checked (which is a while ago) 13h did fairly well. A few more would seem ok to me. Less than the more established times, 14-15, but could have 3-5 times a month. Unless the numbers changed a lot since my last check


Burgos: 8-15-19-21-23h
Parallel races:
Morning ok.
Afternoon: Twice 14, 3 times 15. IMO less at the same time is better, somebody can't ride Burgos because of the time? Offer him more of the one day races. Here a 13, 3x 14, 1x 15 (or 1x16) would make more sense.
Early evening: 2x 19 seems 1 too much as well.
Evening: 3x 22 good, 1x 21 ok, 1x23 with Burgos already there seems one too much. Especially considering that there's only 3 one day races planned at 23, then why plan one on a day when there is an ongoing stage race at the same time? Here one more 22 much better, add 23 10-15-19-23 seems fine if the parallel stage race doesn't have a 23 (and 19) edition, not when it has.

Type of races seem fine, the way to check it of course isn't, better tools in the editor would make it easier to plan and to check, double benefit!

[flockmastoR]

As usual thought about it a bit late, but is there a place for a fantasy pavé race?

I will design Benelux when there is more info around. Profiles are already there, just no info about intermediate etc.

Special type fantasy races:

Pavé races/races with pave:
09.08. Puchar Gdańsk: flat with max pace of ****, relatively close to the finish line, More a race with pavé
21.08. Grolloo - Assen: flat hard pave race (****,***** all over) but with a relatively long passage after the last sector
PS: missing some hillier pave races in Europe/everywhere but nice job of Tukh providing a bunch of pave races

TTT
07.08. Raspenau - Haindorf TTT, very mountainous team time trial (morning and early evening)

Puchar Gdansk changed to the 08.08. to have an "easier" race before San Sebastian

[flockmastoR]

Since AAD asked in the chat about comments/complaints/criticism/whining about the fantasy calendar, here we go:

Times: 2 for 13h, last time I checked (which is a while ago) 13h did fairly well. A few more would seem ok to me. Less than the more established times, 14-15, but could have 3-5 times a month. Unless the numbers changed a lot since my last check


Burgos: 8-15-19-21-23h
Parallel races:
Morning ok.
Afternoon: Twice 14, 3 times 15. IMO less at the same time is better, somebody can't ride Burgos because of the time? Offer him more of the one day races. Here a 13, 3x 14, 1x 15 (or 1x16) would make more sense.
Early evening: 2x 19 seems 1 too much as well.
Evening: 3x 22 good, 1x 21 ok, 1x23 with Burgos already there seems one too much. Especially considering that there's only 3 one day races planned at 23, then why plan one on a day when there is an ongoing stage race at the same time? Here one more 22 much better, add 23 10-15-19-23 seems fine if the parallel stage race doesn't have a 23 (and 19) edition, not when it has.

Type of races seem fine, the way to check it of course isn't, better tools in the editor would make it easier to plan and to check, double benefit!

Thanks for you feedback! I have changed some of the times now.

About the Checking:
The reason for doing the whole month at once is, that I think it can be easier checked by all in the Calendar Preview. Yes length and category would help for an overview check, but I think when you really wanna explore the race type (for form settings etc.) you need to click through all of the races.
The downside is, that I don't have a regular overview on what kind of fantasy races are available/needed.

[Gipfelstuermer]

New route... grrrr.... built it myself.


Other one day races no info yet.... so everyone go and help design Vuelta !

[flockmastoR]

Vuelta 2024










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REST DAY
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REST DAY
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[Gipfelstuermer]

The remaining one day races


no info = same as last year


with info, same as last year


new route, grrr, very light gravel, all * regardless of sector length


no info = same as last year

Will publish on the weekend if no objections.

[flockmastoR]

Vuelta 2024
...

Updated Stages 4, 6, 8.
Mainly changed the steepness of the final km.

[flockmastoR]

Vuelta 2024

One thing about stage 16:
You end with -4 here. In fact its 1 km of -4 downhill and than 0.5 km of +5. Not sure if it is the best way as it is. Maybe make another km with +2 or +3. I think that would be more precise for a last km (sprint).

Rest of the stages look good now imo.

Gip mentioned that the points system/ category is still not clear??? Does somebody know more about it?

[Gipfelstuermer]

Gip mentioned that the points system/ category is still not clear??? Does somebody know more about it?

Came out now, see here

http://www.radsportfreaks.de/RSFForum/v ... 25#p121546

[Tukhtahuaev]

Vuelta 2024

One thing about stage 16:
You end with -4 here. In fact its 1 km of -4 downhill and than 0.5 km of +5. Not sure if it is the best way as it is. Maybe make another km with +2 or +3. I think that would be more precise for a last km (sprint).

Rest of the stages look good now imo.

Gip mentioned that the points system/ category is still not clear??? Does somebody know more about it?

I think you are right that 1 extra km makes sense here, so I added a 2 for the final km

[Tukhtahuaev]

Super 8 seems to be its own classification, so I guess we can count it as mountain classification

[Radunion]

It should be identical laps at the end of the final stage. It looks like hills were flattening in the last lap.

[Tukhtahuaev]

Only the final km is different, because the finish is not at the top of the Muur, but about 400m before the top