New riders

[lennylenny]

There should have Been someone to do this when Jeffrey deZwaan was 21 years old

[GoddelauerClub]

moaahhaha meyer

sebastien deneyer actual skills

60mont/75flat/78-downhill/63 TT/65 sprint/38reg

Your Deneyer its good too, but Meyer looks stronger, your sprintskill i want for Meyer
Or.....
Give me this rider too

For my Ridestyle is the reg. Too small..
But awsome good train last month?
What you train with her?
Classic skill? Mountain/flat?

I hope you understand this english

[katiki]

i train him montain and flat

[katiki]

new riders in mez team belgium

-Ruben Vandevelde--> 54mont-72flat-69downhill-54TT-63spr-51reg

-Michiel VanDenBak (little brother of bert) -->55mont-74flat-73downhill-47TT-50spr-40reg

[team fl]

from the opening post:

if you're not important enough or the rider not good enough... spare us and don't post your newest star here

[Robyklebt]

Criticism!!

Farkas? Not really all that newsworthy I thought. Plus all this praise made him miss a flat training... (or maybe the manager forgot to change the training from all mountain)

Manghan, Elbcoast.... I'd say ignore them! Not because they are assholes, but because the first one buys and buys and sells and sells then rides a few select races in a 1 month period twice a year. While the other one hasn't ridden (at least with that account...) for... don't know, forever basically. But has been happily buying and selling riders this whole time. At least last time I checked, since you noticed a rider I'd say nothing changed there.

[team fl]

June 1st, let’s go (again with stupid hyphens from Word), although there might be some nice riders who will still be bought until the 5th of the month. Anyway, Some teams seemed to have a buy-ing spree. And the example of Erzgebirge shows again that the Div 6-7 youth transfer market is over packed with good classic and pave riders. But see for yourself:

Climbers:

- Andreas Wolf (Rockstar Inc): 73-55-79-51-46, 53.5 Pavé, 42 Reg: Only one flat point lacking for perfect main skills. Rest is… mähh… but hey, he won’t have the very big salary. But he will depend on training due to only 46 sprint and 51 TT. Nevertheless, together with his new teammate (see below), he may potentially rock (!) the mountains.

- Sergio Zarate (Rockstar Inc): 72-56-79-54-53, 54.8 Pavé, 51 Reg: What Wolf lacks in flat, Zarate lacks in mountain skill for a perfect main setting. Anyway, with better “B-skills” and 51 Reg, he’s the man for the stage races I guess. Anyway, a nice duo, Wolf-Zarate.

- Alice Liddell (World Wildlife): 73-53-79-49-56, 54.2 Pavé, 46 Reg: Liddell won’t be the GC dominator but he has to potential to win races with these skills, esp. the additional 56 sprint. With 49 TT and 46 Reg also not the most expensive climber, that might come in handy for one-day races too, like LBL, Wallone, etc.

Stage race riders:

- no name (Team Krischan): 67-50-78-72-59. 48.8 Pavé, 57 Reg: Again only one rider in this category. Besidese the weak flat and pavé skills, he has everything such a rider needs: max mountain-TT combination, 57 Reg and interesting 59 sprint. But then again, such riders need strong teams around them for success. Still a lot of work for Team Krischan, as far as I see it.

Sprinters:

Daniel Auer (Ambition): 49-57-60-58-82, 55.8 Pavé, 42 Reg: There are some interesting sprinters with 80 sprint, but that would mean I’d have to mention Rockstar Inc again, so Auer will be the only one in this list as the only 21yo 82 sprinter in June.

Classic riders:

- Javier Pinola (Rockstar Inc): 56-73-79-65-53, 68.5 Pavé, 54 Reg: Déjà-Vu: Rockstar Inca gain. Seems he had some money left to by two climbers, one sprinter and Javier Pinola, a well-rounded classic prospect with some TT, over average pave and nice Reg for stage races.

- Samuel Burke (Mosca Cicli Italia): 54-74-62-65-64, 73.7 Pavé, 45 Reg: Burke has not the best skills for a classic prospect, but the combination of them seems to be promising. 54-74 is okay, esp. with that 64 sprint. And he will be fit for the races with pavé too, not matter if trained with focus on mountain or flat.

- Marek Koller (Erzgebirge): 56-74-71-49-52, 76.1 Pavé, 36 Reg and Pavel Rebic (Erzgebirge): 56-73-77-51-66, 67.3 Pavé, 39 Reg: What a combination Erzgebirge has bought. Both riders from the Div. 6-7 youth market I guess, so no overpricing as well. Esp. Rebis looks like the ideal classic rider with sprint. And Koller, well, he will be a monster for hilly pavé races, even if he only trains average.

- no name (Melange): 55-74-56-58-58, 75.2 Pavé: Second best hills pavé rider is this no name rider from Melange. Although he lacks downhill, with 58 sprint he could be even more suc-cessful than Koller in the end.

- Jim Lannister (Calimero): 56-74-69-50-56, 73.7 Pavé, 53 Reg: Does the name ring a bell? “Hear me roar” he might say, but wait: He’s from Great Britain, not from Westeros. So forget about that and just watch his beautiful skill set as the third good classic rider with a decent pavé skill in this list. Damn I want one too now….

Classic riders with TT:

No one worth mentioning

(pure) Time trialists:

- Teodzjusz Teklinski (Wishbone): 56-64-48-77-49, Pavé 60.4, 39 Reg: Although Teklinski laks a decent downhill skill, he is the only 21yo with a maxed TT skill. So he’s in the list. The only other interesting time trialist is Juan Cabedo from Barloo with 51-74-78-75-47, 66.2 Pavé and 55 Reg.

(pure) Pavé riders:

- Tupac Katari (Alkworld): 50-74-52-62-66, 74.6 Pavé, 45 Reg: Alkworld has found his pave leader for 2017. With the perfect flat and sprint combination and a pave skill that’s more than enough for most pavé races, Katari will a rider to watch during the spring classics next year. And with Huayna Capa (4974-77-54-51, 73.7 Pavé, 48 Reg) he already has a decent helper on his side.

- Maximilian Göppel (Riding Stars): 55-73-70-50-53, 74.2 Pavé, 36 Reg: Göppel could have also been mentioned in the classic riders section, but there are others with better skills. So I take him here to at least mention one rider from Liechtenstein .

Helpers (max. 52 mountain, 72 flat, min. 70 downhill, max 70 TT, max 60 sprint, min. 45 reg):

6 riders show up who meet the conditions for this category, but I focus on the three riders I like the most, incl. the Liechtenstein rider of course:

- Vinzenz Flatz (Riding Stars): 47-70-76-46-43, 65.2 Pavé, 62 Reg: Wonderful helper with per-fect (cheap) B-Skills and a good set of main skills, average Pavé and very usable 62 Reg.

- Patrick Vetsch (Rasmussen): 52-70-73-50-51, 62.5 Pavé, 52 Reg: Nice starting skills for a 6x-8x-73 rider who will be a handyman for stage races to help Dufaux (or another captain) or even for stage wins himself.

- Mobutu Fabunni (Dreizehn): 47-70-75-47-43, 65.8 Pavé, 51 Reg: My favourite in this catego-ry as this will not only be a nice helper with skills like 5x-8x-75 but also won’t cost much for the team salary although having 51 Reg. Might also be a regular puller for early escapes. A true helper.

Honourable mentions:

- Mathieu Cloarec (Barloo): 46-71-73-52-46: He doesn’t fit the criteria with only 35 Reg. Nev-ertheless, this is a perfect helper for one-day races. Nice skills for being a 5x-8x-73 rider for little money. He could also be in the next category, but as he will be a helper mainly with only 46 sprint, he’s mentioned here.

Cheap riders that actually are a good fit

- Antoine Griezmann (Oméga Team): 54-74-53-49-44, 71.3 Pavé, 45 Reg: With a price unter 1.7 Mio. and a salary under 32k, this rider could be a very nice addition next to another pavé rider with some more sprint. You can train him either to be a “normal” classic rider or a 6x-8x rider with more pave.

- The three Indy Colts riders with 55/56 mountain and between 66 and 69 flat. Well, these riders are rubbish you will say, but the fit perfectly Indy Colts’ prey pattern. So at least for his team, they are a good fit. And they are cheap with all between 1.4 and 1.502 Mio.

[team fl]

Tour de France in July! Yay! But Team FL won’t ride it . Anyway, some teams also thougth about buying riders in the YTM in June and thus have now 21 year olds in their team. And hey, some of them made it in my list:

Climbers:

- No name (Vital): 73-56-78-53-55, 56.6 Pavé, 37 Reg: Almost perfect skills in mountain, flat and downhill, added by decent TT, sprint and pavé skills for a climber. Maybe the Reg-skill prevents him from being great (team manager might do that as well though).

- No name (Luques): 73-55-74-53-54, 54.1 Pavé, 42 Reg: A bit less attractive than Vital’s climber but Luques with a climber again? Enough to mention it.

- Sean Whinerey (New Zealand-Haka): 72-56-79-51-53, 55.4 Pavé, 41 Reg: Quite a new team who already made its claim as an active team. Sean lacks one skill point in mountain, but the rest is promising. As well as the two climbers above, he has not the best reg skill.

- There are 8 more 21 yo riders with a mountain skill of 73, but most of them with a certain flaw in their skill set, like a Downhill skill below 70, only 44 sprint, or less than 50 flat etc. Nevertheless, 6 of them at least have more than 50 Reg, contrary to the individually men-tioned climbers. So maybe also have a look at them: Gylfi Bjerregaard (Team Hunsrueck), Diego Paz (TheDreamTeam), Adriano Malori (Mercatone-uno), Otavio Pcheco (PG Force) and Evaristo Zipoli (Big Donkey).

Stage race riders:

- Fredery Masauvalkalo and Chikau Mansala (both Monaco Racing): 69-51-75-65-55, 49.8 Pavé, 57 Reg; 68-55-74-66-47, 52.3 Pavé, 56 Reg: Don’t know how to handle this. A pretty new team buys TWO possible stage race riders who will cost a lot, once they’re outgrown. But hey, maybe one of the trains well, then sell the other and build a team around the re-maining no name.

Sprinters:

- No name (STARFORCE): 50-56-51-53-82, 52.7 Pavé, 38 Reg: The only sprinter with 82 sprint in the July class. And he has okay B-skills. As all sprinters in this list, he has a cheap reg skill.

- Liene Quanten (World Wildlife) 49-59-60-53-81, 57.5 Pavé, 39 Reg: Liene at least has 59 flat and more pavé than the 82 sprinter.

- Ernesto Oliveira (No Name Team): 50-58-47-47-80-60.1, 39 Reg and Denis Labourlet (VC Moulinsart): 50-57-63-50-79, 61.8 Pavé, 36 Reg: So we have these two riders left who don’t outshine with their pure sprinting skill but with their side skills. Not only have they been very cheap, they both will be a great fit for the sprinters races in the upcoming spring 2017 with their pavé skill.

Classic riders:

- No name (Vital): 56-74-79-57-64, 65.9 Pavé, 57 Reg: Wow. Expensive, but wow. Perfect A-skills for a classic rider and 64 sprint. Vital is really building something… Or not, as he has already sold Müllerinho again, the stage race race he bought in May...

- No name (Mangahns Mannen): 55-74-79-54-58, 73.4 Pavé, 55 Reg: Well, MM. Nobody knows if he rides and how much. But he still tends to buy good riders from the market and maybe never using them. Anyway, I won’t punish the rider for it, so here we go with the first in the list of classic riders with pavé.

- Jeremy Fauconnier (VC Moulinsart): 56-74-71-54-47, 76.4 Pavé, 50 Reg: Jeremy is second in line. Also VC Moulinsart is mentioned more than once in the list but this rider might be the most intriguing. Great classic riders skills, fabulous pavé skill, but only 47 reg. So either he will be a very expensive helper for a pave captain or he will have to rider very aggressively. So the 50 reg might come in handy as well, esp. for the Tour des Pavé and the Sachsen Pflaster (and maybe de Panne).

- No name (OLCycle): 55-73-55-48-60, 75.1 Pavé, 35 Reg: Contrary to Jeremy, this rider has a decent sprint skill and hence does not need a good reg skill necessarily. Seems to be a good buy for OL.

- John Morrison (lesossies): 56-69-72-55-66, 71.4 Pavé, 39 Reg: Just because… looks like an interesting rider that has a bit of everything in his skill set. Wonder how leso will train him. I would go for 6x-8x-72 with 66 sprint and around 80 Pavé

Classic riders with TT:

- No name (Semper Fidelis): 56-74-77-70-56, 66.5 Pavé, 53 Reg: This rider could also have been in the list above, but with his 70 TT skill and not many riders in this part of the list, I rather put him here.

- No name (Cerro Torre RT): 54-74-78-75-50, 65.9 Pavé, 46 Reg: Bah, stupid Cerro Torre RT bought this rider right in front of my eyes. Wanted him too! At least he had to spend some good money on him. Which he will be worth I guess. Grmpf.

(pure) Time trialists:

- no name (Elaska): 49-62-72-77-47, 57.2 Pavé, 38 Reg: pure time trialists… uhm, yes.

- no name (easy King): 47-65-67-77-43, 60.2 Pavé, 37 Reg: See above.

(pure) Pavé riders:

- David Grossmann (Luna Team Bike): 47-74-78-53-46, 76.4 Pavé, 50 Reg: Like Jeremy from VC Moulinsart (remember?), David has a perfect pavé skill but only 46 sprint (and 50 Reg!). Also here the question will be if David will be captain or helper for the upcoming pavé races. I guess it will also depend a bit on his training.

- no name (Team-Mojabahs): 50-73-74-47-53, 75.7 Pavé, 38 Reg: standard good pavé rider who is worth mentioning.

- no name (Hansa): 50-73-55-49-66, 72.4 Pavé, 38 Reg: Not that much pave like David or Mojabahs’ rider, but hey, 66 sprint. Still, he could need David as a helper…

Helpers (max. 52 mountain, 72 flat, min. 70 downhill, max 70 TT, max 60 sprint, min. 45 reg):

Out of 5 riders that match these criteria, I’d like to present four riders:

- Franz Greindl (Marlboro Linz): 48-72-75-48-54, 67.5 Pavé, 57 Reg: Very nice helper skills (like all riders in the list). Can be a flat guy; or a 60-80 guy with reg and with the chance to win out of an escape as well with his 54 sprint skill.

- Luka Kostelic (High Voltage): 48-72-76-48-47, 63.9 Pavé, 54 Reg: almost the same rider like Franz, but cheaper. As well as
- Lars Bremser (Spotlight): 51-71-70-49-52, 63.2 Pavé, 51 Reg:

- Hugues Gras (Idéfix): 46-67-78-46-49, 63.1 Pavé, 50 Reg: my favourite helper in this list. Very cheap, but can as well become a 50-80-78 rider with 50 Reg. Perfect for early helper issues or an escape.

Cheap riders that actually are a good fit

Just to mention it: the most expensive rider was Adriano Malori from Mercatone uno with a market value of 3’505’822 credits. But now to the very cheap riders, cheapest first:

- Samia Gamal (Pharaon): 46-68-53-48-47, 61.7 Pavé, 37 Reg: You look for a salary dumber who maybe will be a help in flat one-day races? Well, here you have him.

- Jack Wallace (Uhlsport): 46-74-50-50-48, 68.3 Pavé, 35 Reg: What’s true for Samia Gamal is even truer for Jack Wallace. What a cheap bastard with 74 flat.

- Steffen Wendolin (GremiumTeamSpeed) and no name (Mangahns Mannen) with 55/56-73 and, well, nothing else for around 1.6 Mio credits.

- ÖyvindEgil Halkjelsvik (LibertySeguros): 55-74-73-49-47, 68 Pavé, 40 Reg: 1.65 Mio. credits, but the riders above WITH downhill.

[IDF]

0 mention to Tanja Fatecic last month :'(

I'm disappointed

[Berlin Marks]

oh.. no FL Rating this month?

[team fl]

oh.. no FL Rating this month?

I thought PTT will do it after his PM to me. Maybe tomorrow

[IDF]

After 2 trainings this month...

Climbers:

Tiberius Ricci(Zahna) : 74-57-76-54-56-48 reg : Very nice guy for a very nice team ! Almost the maximum skills for mountain and flat, nice TT skills and sprint skills. Enough reg to be a potentiel GT-leader next year.

Flurin Habemacher (Easy King) : 74-58-69-50-59-45 reg : I don't know how EK will train him but he could be a pure climber or a very nice 80-70. I don't know yet but.. let's look an eye on him.

Stage race riders:

Jacob Laroche : 71-55-79-66-55-53 reg / Martin Cotillard : 68-55-77-74-54-45 reg. Both from Skullz's team... Two kind of SR riders. Maybe he will use the first one for pure climbs with a short ITT and the second one with less hills in a tour and more TT... Skullz has a 3rd climber (74-52-77-56-51) which has TT skills too.. so , the trio could be very nice. Hard to see how he will develop these 3.. together or sell one or two in a few months? Let's see...

Sprinters:

The best category of the game ofc !

Sandro Burgstaller (Madison Genesis) : 50-58-73-50-84-37 reg : Bought 2.4M. Almost perfect skills in the beginning... Let's see.

Hubertus Vogel (PTT) : 50-58-65-56-84-47 reg : Bought 2.2M instead of 2.3M, i like how to keep 100k in da pocket ! Very nice guy too, ok maybe too much TT skills and a lack of DH skills but 65 isn't bad. With PTT's skills in a final sprint, he could be a very nice killer for 2017.


Classic riders:

Kaspars Flaksis (SM) : 58-73-75-54-66-37 reg : A perfect guy to finish races. Ok low reg and lack of flat but if he will reach 78-79 flat, he could be enough to be efficient. SM is efficient, so this guy from Latvia could be a terror for one day races and for tours.. Green jerseys in coming.

Peyo Cabestany (Barba) : 58-76-74-51-50-56 reg : You need someone to help your leader? Peyo is your guy ! Not a finisher but his reg and his great main skills are enough to put him on your line-up. Bought 2.3M.

No-name (STARFORCE) : 57-75-76-56-55-43 reg : Bought for 1.8M.. an helper with great skills.. and who could be a launcher for his leader in classic races. Nice. The couteau suisse !

Classic riders with TT:

Nurlan Kazhgaliev (Rapid Vitesse) : 57-66-79-76-65-40 reg. : Bought only 2.4M. Rapid decided to don't train him on ITT but in flat and sprint ... hmm maybe a good choice.

Mufasa Bambata (Elmo-Tours) : 57-71-65-77-56-56 reg : A future leupold. He will have 3 decent helpers (with the same age than him). Let's look an eye in 3-4 months.

In this category, guys like Robert Boyle (Rexon) and Fjellner from Madison Genesis could be both future terrors with their TT skills (69) ... with a classic training.. let's hope for them (58-74 and 57-76 currently)


(pure) Time trialists:

Jean Nuttli (Rasmussen) ; HreinnPall Thorarinsson (Libby) ; Klay Thompson (Allrad) ; DeLigt (Team Obk) ; Zukardi (Indonesia) have 79 TT. These riders (in this order) represents me the best chances to be a top rider against the time...

(pure) Pavé riders:

Esteban Elmoro (Elmo) : 58-72-79-51-62-75 pavé-38 reg : The best rider with pavé currently. Now the question is... will be a future classic with (very) good pave skills or a 65-82+ with 82+ pavé? That's the question.

Sven Torstensson (Liquigas the noob) : 57-73-70-49-65-74.2-57reg : Same question than the first one. Maybe better for a Pavé's tour with his reg. Better sprint as well.. let's see.

Hotaru Shidare from Poké could be in this category, Joni Kovalev from Leopard too etc.

Helpers (max. 54 mountain, 74 flat, min. 72 downhill, max 72 TT, max 62 sprint, min. 45 reg):

Peter Spaenhoven (World Wildlife) : 50-74-72-46-48-59 reg : You need a chaser? Who can repeat his effort almost everyday? Yeaaaaaaaah Peter is perfect for that. Good flat and DH skills. Maybe he will be a future top flat rider... starting with 72 .
Ingo Immler (Devil Bats) : 48-74-71-49-49-45 reg : Bought 1.3M, same things than Peter. But he will cost less with his low reg. Nice boy.

Cheap riders that actually are a good fit

Michael Von Grûnigen (Chense) : 57-73-70-46-54-37 reg : Bought only 1.551M. Nice primary skills, not bad B-skills.. cheap... a guy for one day-races or just an helper in tours. Grr i hate you Chense.

Karl Stratford (DrivenByRobert) : 57-73-64-51-55-35 reg : Bought 1.58M. Same than the Chense's one. Less DH btw. But still nice to make money.

Sven Ackermann (PTT) : 49-74-65-49-68-37 reg : Vogel's launcher is here. Only for 1.5M+... perfect. Almost.

[Chense]

Thihihi i hate you too my dear

[Liquigas-CND]

Sven Torstensson (Liquigas the Great) : 57-73-70-49-65-74.2-57reg : Same question than the first one. Maybe better for a Pavé's tour with his reg. Better sprint as well.. let's see.

[team fl]

Sven Torstensson (Liquigas the Great) : 57-73-70-49-65-74.2-57reg : Same question than the first one. Maybe better for a Pavé's tour with his reg. Better sprint as well.. let's see.

from the opening post:

if you're not important enough or the rider not good enough... spare us and don't post your newest star here

[Robyklebt]

Since there was quite a lot of talk about youth riders in the general chat last month, why not revive this topic for one month. See what actually was bought. (Of course there was a lot of talk about toxicity, bad community too, interesting that the ones always talking about it never seem to have the idea or energy to write something interesting or potentially interesting in the forum... like here for example)

So, 21 year old in October, without those that might be bought between now and the first training. Or the second.

Climbers:
Only 7 climbers with 70+ bought. Only 2 with 73!!! Despite it not being a bad month to buy climbers. Giro 28, Tour 30, Vuelta 31-32. If you want somebody for all 3 GTs, the best or maybe second best month (September, then Vuelta 32-33 might be better, depending on when exactly the Vuelta starts next year). 28 the Giro, so 28 of 48 positive trainings gone, but the most important ones, from 28 on you really have to take every + as a welcome gift. (Not that I remember the exact percentages, maybe at 28+29 it's still in the unlikely but can happen category) Other important stage races, March 26, a bit youngish, April 27, June 29. Fantasy stuff, Andes 22/34: young improving helper/still possible leader in 2020, Dec Tour 23, youth jersey, 35 in 2020 often too old, but with luck... January Tour 24/36 not too good, but a good early blossomer can already go for the win maybe. One day races, Flèche Wallonne 27, Emilia, Milano Torino and at least this year Piemonte 33. First half of the month, so almost perfect. If I ride the Vuelta in 2021 I'll buy my second climber in October, main reason the Italian classics in October.

Despite that, only 7 climbers. But 4 of them are good, even if only 3 will be mentioned since I refuse to mention "no names".

- Markus Schopp: 73-56-79-52-53 with 51 reg. Katschberger: Perfect first 3 skills, 2 and ? below the TT and sprint. 3'137'359 value, paid 3'547'771, overpayed by 410'000. But the guy is good, no doubt. Now it's all about training, with 52 TT he will have his chances even if he doesn't train superbly. 86, average training, 52 TT, he still has chances. And with the reg can be offensive. But 87-50 might beat him. And that in the end is the main problem I have with this rider, or more specifically overpaying for him. In the end it's about training with climbers. A 73-50-70-48-48 with 51 reg will go for 95% and if he trains to 88-55, while Schopp goes to 86-61-79 (assuming he trains mountain and flat, and not TT) So... if he trains well, 87,88, even more, all good, but then he'll need the team for it. If he doesn't it will make for good popcorn in the chat I suppose.

-Teodoro Fernandez: 73-55-78-48-55 with 55 reg. Furpach. Damn. 2 such guys in one month! No TT, but a bit more reg. Good for offensive riding. 3'109'608 value, paid 3'391'158. So overpaid 280'000 too. Less, but same problem as with Schopp. Of course I would take both, might even pay more than 95%, but don't think I'd overpay more than 100'000... but ok, not my decision for other teams. With Teodoro I have another concern: Will he train to be a climber or go for the 80-70 thing? 55 sprint, so he's well equipped there too (56 max for climbers?) flat would give him a chance for things like LBL (might be early?) and Lombardia too. I would go for mountain first of course, but Furpach seems to have a liking for the 80-70.. even a guy like Stefansson, start at 70-53 seems to be going for that, 77-64 now. As for the team, same thing as with Schopp, but normally he should have a team, maybe not a second climber (if he becomes one) but 80-70 and classics, the team will be strong.

So to absolutely brilliant 73 climbers this month. And only those 2, no other 73 climber. Were there no other decent ones (73-53-73 kind of thing)? And if anybody remembers, were there many other bids on these 2? But anyway, exceptional guys, both of them (I prefer Teodoro because of a) reg b) less TT). Will be interesting to see if they develop into treble contenders.

- Rudi Schwyzer, 70-52-77-61-51 with 53 reg. Jäger-LeCultre. Another Austrian supertalent. With 61 TT a born GT rider, lately those riders haven't been around much at c4f, not exciting enough maybe? But normally he should be the strongest treble contender of the 3. The 27" seconds he wins in every 10 km of flat to Schopp count But, he'll need a team, right now he's in a 9 rider team, an IMO hopelessly overprized, overhilled(?) team. Lowest climbing skill 54. But highest 67. Lots of reg. 3 guys over 60, only 2 under 50, 47 for both. To be a real threat Schwyzer will need a better team, a stronger climber to help him in the moutains, some guys with flat but not 54 mountain, 50 enough for the flat parts, and especially some cheaper riders to be able to ride races without paying salary each time. In a team for him, Schwyzer looks very dangerours. In this one he looks like a financially crazy investement that is likely to end in some sort of failure. But if the team from now on is built around him... it can work... Good part, he was bought for under 100%.


Hm, spent way too much time on the climbers, will do the pavé guys later...

[Robyklebt]

OH, first, only 77 youth riders overall, think that's veeery low. There's 157 22 year olds around.

Pavé: Timing IMO not perfect, especially for guys for RVV. Flat pavé for Roubaix better.

- Michael Hessmann 56-74-75-48-55, 45 reg. 76,4 pavé, 82 pure pavé skill. RV Cologne. 2,67 millions value, paid 4,45. Completely crazy IMO. Good rider, sure, but expensive even without overpaying anyway... and difficult rider to train as well. Pavé, you want it high if you start there, so flat has to go to 85 at least. And if he starts at 56 mountain you want some mountain as well obviously. But a classic with some pavé, the 72-80 or so is sort of a waste with that pavé value, So.... 4+4 at 21 (not assured, but not impossible, let's be positive) then 1+4, then 61-82 From then on hoping for flat for 2 months, 61-86 seems ok. Then at 25 start bringing the mountain up? 2 months time... I don't know how high that then will normally go, but guess "normal" training would 3? So 64-86 for RVV, maybe more doubles at 22... But see above, for a RVV guy I would prefer a bit more time, to be able to bring him up to 67, 68 or so, that seems unlikely too me until April. Still a nice rider of course. Or does he go for the classic classic after all? 70-80? No clue.

- Mathieu Pincemail, 53-73-79-74-63, 62 reg, 74,8 pavé, so 79 pavé skill. Pokemonogatari. The attempt to build another Yuigahama. Classic with pavé and TT, so for some GC. Of all the 21 year olds the one with the highest market value, 3,4 millions, paid what looks like 95%. I suspect, it's another Yuigahama-type as I said, that would mean classic "classic" training, take the flat you get, go for mountain. But starting at only 53 will be hard to reach 76 or 77 or whatever Yuigahama had. With his sprint in the end it will be enough for him to follow in the pavé races, then very often will have his chance. Should be around 78-80 for Flanders, so 78,3-79,7 pavé, which combined with 70 +/- mountain can be enough. But the main focus normally shouldn't be on the cobblestone races I think, will be more of an allrounder trying to score as many points as possible a bit everywhere. But maybe we'll see a different training? Anyway, team will be there.

- Emil Bramsen 55-73-50-48-64, 52 reg, 74,2 pavé, 77 pavé skill. Bonebreakers. Another RVV candidate, similar type to Pincemail. For RVV, not for the career. 2,4 million market value, paid a few 1000 over 100%. Training, I still don't really know what kind of training is best for these type of riders, go for the RVV monster or the more general classic? Here with the sprint that doesn't require top pavé I'd go for classic.

So 3 good pavé riders as well, interestingly all 3 rather the RVV type, not the PR type who IMO would be much much easier to prepare till then. There's actually another 2 nice guys ,but either not named or a poor man with a female name, those are being boycotted too.

Classics:
- Florinel Coman, 56-72-76-49-62, 42 reg. team FCSB. 1,9 market value, paid 2,6 And possibly sold Olimpiu Morutan, a now 33 year old 79-78-75-49-55 for it. Or maybe for one of the 2 other 21 year olds in the team.. Then maybe the guy sold for this rider is the 89-56-70, Gnohere, 33 now as well. Something I'll never understand. How can you sell a 79-78-75, who is automatic favorite for Lombardia, has a perfect teammate for the siebs like Gnohere to get POTENTIAL? That teammate who would be one of the top favorites for Emilia, Milano Torino, Piemonte? For an unproven 21 year old. That is nice, 56-72 with downhill and sprint. Thanks to the sprint even without 79-78 (which normally you don't get) he might be more successful than Morutan. On the other hand there's many 70+ climbers with 60-65 sprint... But yeah, the career might be better than Morutan, who despite his skills has won only shit really, 9 wins, yeah, but mostly uninteresting. But he had the big chance to go for Lombardia. Coman will always be assessed while keeping in mind what was sold to get him and his 2 21 year old friends... and rated accordingly. He has a hard career in front of him, people like the Donkey will claim sacrificing Morutan's chances for Lombardia (not a sure win, but chances) will only be worth it if any of these guys win at least a monument.
That said, Coman is good, overpaid, but good. has all he needs to work both as a leader and a helper in case there is a climber in the team. Reg 42 to me looks perfect too, in combination with the sprint.

- Julien Martin: 55-74-79-59-43 with 46 reg. Rohazon RC. A forgettable career lies ahead of him, who will remember his name? Nobody, even if he ends up as a 80-80-80, one of 700 Martins in Rohazon's team. 1,9 market value, paid 2,5 million. Overpaid, but another very good rider of course. With 59 TT he might even fight for some GC wins in 1 week races where TT is important, Otherwise he has everything to be a good rider, except the memorable name and the sprint. As a helper for a climber excellent, for the rest really depends on the training now. He certainly can hope to become a very good classic, including flat.

Many others not named yet, but none really really convinces me, so would probably restrict myself to these 3 anyway.

Will ignore sprint and flat (Kroyer, Palermo!!!)

[Robyklebt]

8 trainings, time for an update:

Schopp: 73-56-79-52-53 to.... 78-64-79-52-53. A 80-70 seems planned. A perfect climber. And going for flat. What a waste. 80-70? What for? With sprint they can challenge for LBL, they can follow classic attacks. But more often than not classics will have more sprint. And actually with a good classic you can possibly block for that sprint for a climber too, if he somehow has sprint. Probably some bad luck in training here, going for 100% probably should give you better percentages in mountain than 25%? Taking 1 in 4 mountain seems a bit of bad luck. But still, why not just go for mountain, after the perfect 4+4, 77-60 at 21, almost assured to get 81-60. Do 80-70 even need that much downhill? Doesn't hurt, chase climbers in downhill, stay ahead of classics.... But still, for me this seems an incredible waste, overpaying 400'000 for the perfect climber to make him a 80-70. How can you go for 80-70 with starting skills like that?

The answer is Furpach! Teodoro Fernandez, 73-55-78-48-55 to 78-62-78-48-55. With 55 reg. As feared a bit, this jewel is made into a 80-70 too. Don't get it.... Furpach likes them, get that, but a real climber IMO would simply be more successful most of the time. Offensive riding possible too, Fuprach does that with his 80-70. Here with 55 sprint it makes a bit more sense to go for 80-70 than with Schopp... a little bit. Climbers with some sprint do well too after all. Same mountain training, so bad luck too, or maybe the percentages just aren't as good as I thought.

Rudi Schwyzer 78-54-77-64-51 with 53 reg now, so up 8 mountain, 2 flat and 3 TT. A sensible training, long live Jäger! With that he is clearly the most dangerous looking climber of his generation, the only one that can hope to win a GT. Yes the TT-climber is always the strongest, and most expensive, but you're not going to beat him by not training mountain.... Let's see what he trains now, for the Donkey though so far was good training.

Pavé:

Hessmann: Sold, bought by Mangahn, as sad as that is, at least he has a manager who knows what he's doing. But of course Mangahn never liked pavé, except with his multis.... 60-80 with 80,6 pavé now, going for mountain, not flat. With 80.6 pavé of course the chances for RVV etc are already there. 55 decent, but not outstanding sprint. I suspect more moutnain now, so will be a classic with pavé, useful in different settings, which is ok. Even if going for a bit more flat at 22 is probably what I would have tried, but here unlike with the 80-70 I'm not outraged, seems ok training, looks Hessmann will be a strong rider, often helper thought most likely.

Pincemail: As expected going for the mountain. 61-77, so perfect mountain, only for flat. So less a pavé man, more the desperate attempt to get the points record, as expected. Chances in RVV there, Paris-Roubaix normally not.

Bramsen: He goes the flat way 60-81, 79,8 pavé. And still 64 sprint. With the sprint a winner on pavé, so going for pavé makes sense, RVV, PR double attempt makes sense, if Bramsen keeps training at 23. He will need a bit more flat. Mountain.... could already be enough, for me it would, although I'd try to get him higher too of course, but first priority should be flat.

Classics:
Coman: Coman 64-77 now, perfect mountain, 5 flat. Ok, developping well enough, too early really for a review for classics, the decisive trainings start at 24, here only if there's weird trainings, doesn't seem to be the case.

Julien Martin 63-77, 8 mountain only 3 flat. 3 flat seems little...but since Julien doesn't seem to have trained anything else, it's simply bad luck most likely.


Ok, let's see in a month or 2 again..

[Robyklebt]

Another update, 3 months, 12 trainings later. Last update on this generation.

Schopp: 79-71-78-52-53. What a waste. Nonsensical training, It's like getting a 56-74 with 55 sprint and then train him only in sprint. Worse actually. Little sprint.. he's basically a rider for Lombardia top 3, get's the climbers in the last downhill, attacks, is followed, loses the sprint. Well, third place is assuming he has a manager who knows what he's doing, right now he clearly hasn't. Overpaying to get a rider who will probably be 80 or 81 mountain at some point. 798 eternal points so far.

Teodoro Fernandez: 82-63-78-48-55. The 80-70 project stopped at some point it seems. Bad luck at 23? Then back to mountain? At least 55 sprint is better than 53, and has no TT. Not what I would have trained, but Furpach seems to like those guys, unlike Schopp Fernandez is at least scoring points here and there, so ok.... Not that I would have attempted to get a 80-70 with a guy with his starting skills...still shaking my head at the training of those 2 climbers. We need a workshop, how to waste money. 2440 points so far.

Rudy Schwyzer: 84-55-77-65-51. So finally sensible training, +14 mountain. Can be more soon. With these skills good chances for a GT win. And even better chances to win something like PN, Catalunya (with the TT now) Pais Vasco, Romandie etc. The team is a bit weird, one top classic as helper, 75-77-62-77TT.. .which makes him extremely expensive as helper, he's more of another leader...Then under 70 mountain. But everybody in the team has at least 54 mountain, which really is too high for the lowest mountain skill. And downhill missing a bit. So won't be easy to win a GT, but certainly Schwyzer has the skills. While I still don't think much of the rest of the team, Schwyzer was bought under 100%, trained sensibly. He should start winning soon. 2914 points so far.

Hessmann: 66-84-76-48-55, 83,4 pavé. Good training, sensible training, even after changing to Manghi. Mountain-pavé-sprint combination makes him a contender for the hilly pavé races. The pavé makes him an outsider even for PR. If he gets to ride... we all know his manager generally only starts when he knows he'll have over 65% chances of winning. 372 points so far, let's see tomorrow if Manghi "finds time". He did the training well, now allow that great rider to challenge for wins!

Pincemail: 69-78-78-73-63. The expected attempt at the eternal pints record. Doesn't look like it will be a success, +16 mountain good, +5 flat ok, lost one each downhill and TT. 78,3 pavé now. More mountain will probably come, but with 53 start hard to get where he needed to be to have a chance to really go for the record. For pavé, 78,3, with that of course for Flanders he's there. For Roubaix normally not. MSR, he'll either try the escape or wait for the sprint, hoping for a classic sprint without super sprinters. LBL probably too weak, unless he trains really well till then. Good training, was clear was going to go in this direction, not pure pavé, more allrounder, for that the training was good. 2669 points so far

Bramsen: 60-84-50-48-64, 81,9 pavé. Looks like bad luck in training. +5 mountain, +11 flat, trainings seems to have been what was needed to get a good pavé rider.. jsut that he didn't train as could be hoped. Not that I think much of his manager, but not his fault here, sometimes they train, sometimes they don't. He still has his chances, 81,9 pavé can follow, 60 mountain can be enough, sprint is there. The team isn't superb, but a young pavé guy coming up, still time to train more for Bramsen too. Chances there. Would just be bigger with luckier training. 1179 points

Coman: 73-76-75-49-62. So good training in mountain, +17. +4 flat only, could be better, but that's luck too. Lost one downhill. but still ok, and kept sprint. Everything going according to plan I guess. Of course let's not forget that I think the plan was complete shit from the start, he sold a 79-78-75 to get Coman....But Coman might develop into a superclassic as well. But at this point he's not favorite for anything big, despite the sprint, at this level often there are better sprinters around. LBL probably the only race he can start with confidence in the next 2 months. 978 points.

Martin: 69-79-79-59-43. As forgettable as his name. Unlucky training, only +14 (+12 are sure for classics) Can still come of course, but the training wasn't as hoped for sure. Right now he looks like a decent helper, which with his sprint he was always mostly going to be. Problem of course is that there is no leader, he's by far the rider with most mountain, next one has 63. 471 points, ok for helper, but since I think he probably is leader quite a lot, could be a bit more too. He really needs a leader to help, as a classic helper for a climber he would be very good, unlucky training, but still can get to 72+, with his other skills that would be a perfect helper.

Additon:

Stars of this generation that weren't followed:

Ronald Smith: 52-89-74-50-55, 40 reg, 76,1 pavé. Supertrainer! 48-74-75 his starting skills. Only 46 points so far, 31 races. But with these skills should get more in the future. Lesossies the manager, he knows how to train!
Gianvito Caggiano: 49-61-52-48-93. started with 79 sprint and 57 flat. Good thing Coroncina, his manager is, always without exception unlucky in the training. According to himself. 207 points so far, Coroncina not riding at the moment.
Julio Barbosa: 49-57-70-53-92, started 82 sprint and 54 flat. Flat still a problem, with the sprint he can win. 5 wins so far, 1301 points

[el Galactico]

So share your thoughts about the next generation

[IDF]

You're right Galacticos

[Pokemon Club]

Omloop + KBK for Pincemail, the Classics started well for him

[Robyklebt]

Let's revive this topic for this generation:

First riders by age right now:

25: 79
24: 69
23: 52
22: 53
21: 33

Really surprising to see only 33 riders... No idea why? Did we lose more people in April? Despite the huge progress in the game?
Or is it the Giro effect, everybody saves money?
Normally there shouldn't too many new 21 year olds be coming now, so doubt it will increase to over 40. Anyway, so few, it must be a special generation. Let's start immediately, ignoring Trottel as usual.

Climbers:
Matti Lindström, Swe, Bahrain 75-58-79-50-48 with 43 reg. The lack of reg might pose some problems later. Not much sprint either, so 80-70 makes little sense I think, the hope for a real climber is there. In a rather successful team, so we look forward to how he develops and if he shows already something at the TdF

Guido Loosli, Sui, Falkenbier, 75-58-78-48-58, 37 reg. Very similar, but less reg, more sprint. Not in a team that is famous for its climbers, had a certain Ivanov ages ago, the 39th best russian climber of all times. Or around there. Here... 80-70 would evne sort of make sense, but with Balanta there is already a youngish 80-70 in the team, so another pure climber? Will be interesting to see how he develops.

Classics:

Caoimhin Kelleher, Ire, Schartner: 58-76-79-48-51, 47 reg. The youngster everybody wanted, but only because we didn't know his difficult name. But clearly the classic star in the under 20 ranks in the last season. To become a star in elite racing could be more difficult, due to his lack of sprint. But if he continues to develop as most managers thought... We might have to learn the name after all.

Hans Herzog, Aut, Jäger: 57-75-70-65-65 with 53 reg. Unfortunate skills in a way, TT and sprint, and reg. But he is one of 3 young classics joining the Austrian team doing a comeback, with his sprint skills he could or should end up being the leader, and have a strong support cast. Training so far mountain and flat.

Sprinters:

Jadin Sancho, GB, Lünen: 51-49-49-46-83, 36 reg. He can sprint, that's it. A pure sprinter, but due to his weaknesses he risks not having a great career. But the best career of all sprinters, since he's the only one (some others might develop into sprinters, Jadin is a natural talent) Right now he's training mountain in addition to sprint, not sure that's the best decision, with that flat skill even at 60 mountain he would have trouble following at 5 and 6. An attempt to give him a half decent flat skill once he is 25-26, something around 55 might be better.

Pavé:

Jesper Börjesson, Swe, Bearclaw. 50-70-77-48-50, 47 reg. 79 hidden pavé value, now 72,7. Bearclaw wants second place in Roubaix, see Lanz and Baas, Lanz started at 68 with internal pavé skill 79, Baas at 69 with the same internal pavé skill. And both got second in Roubaix, so place your bets now! Jesper will be second! Right now training mountain, let's see if he continues there now that he has reached 50. Might be tempted to go higher to make use of his downhill skills? But RVV seems difficult anyway. He has another a bit less talented companion in his team, Persson, 53 sprint. But in the end the risk is there that less talented riders with more sprint will beat the strong team in 11 months.

Flat rider:

Rohan Tiekema, Ned, Trekken, 48-76-61-56-58, 62 reg. Lots of reg, so he should become the first rider to ride. Despite his good TT and sprint skills, he most likely will have very few possibilities to ride for himself.

The Donkey will follow these 7 riders over the next months, update probably in 2 months or a bit more, when we can see more from the training.

[Bear]

Nice to have this updated again. Always liked this thread. For my stars I can say... I usually like to have some riders with low sprint to attack. That often results in not winning. But I prefer less wins as long as these are nice wins

[Weezel]

Pah! The best May 2022 youngster is missing with Tim Merlier