BigDonkey. non stop insults for weeks.

[olmania]

Hello everybody !

I am not used to complain here, but something has to stop, so here it is.

I know, I talk about Big Donkey, Petit Singe, Robyklebt, one of the oldest players here in RSF, a monument for many of us ... but still, this does not allow him to break the basic fair-play rules of respect of others. Today, I ask you to review that case and use your power to make this unacceptable behaviour stop.

A bit of background :

I was riding TDF with Big Donkey and some others teams. So, we were riding 3 weeks together on a daily basis. There, he started to express his hate and insults towards me on a daily basis. Unfortunately, I did not think to save his words as a proof at that time; thinking that he would stop and that it's not such a big deal.
The fact it's that when insults, provocations and bad behaviors towards one persone are repeated on a daily basis, it becomes a big deal.

During that TDF, he obviously did not like some things I was doing (the way I was riding, or the way I was chatting in the chat), that's his right and his opinion, no problem about that. The problem is that it turns out that from his opinion come insults and provocations on a daily basis in that TDF in July.
I did not break any fair-play rule during TDF, about the tactics or about the respect to other players. I don't consider that I acted bad or did things that were bad, only him thought it. It was only his opinion and nothing linked to the rules of fair-play. Sorry if I insist on that point, looks important to me.

From the TDF, he started to talk bad about me, with daily provocations and insults. I don't have proofs of it (before 06-08) as I said, but maybe some other players can remember it. I did nont react bad to his provocation, trying sometimes to argue, but as it was senseless and pointless imo, I decided to stop doing it and be silent.

After the TDF

After the TDF, we used to meet again many times in similar races. And he decided to not stop his provocations and insults. I was silent for some weeks, never answering him, just hoping he would get bored or others would make him silent. But he did not.
So, I decided to talk again and try to see how we could end up that situation. No solution was found or given, all answers I could get were more and more insulting and offensive. His only answer was to say it's payback time (after what he did not like in TDF (which was nothing wrong)) and that he proposed me to talk in PM and I did not send him any, so my chance to speak was gone.

During all races, from the end of July til now (except last few days when we are not riding in the same group), I had to experience insults and bad words from him. Not only trying to affect me with that, I realized that his words were also having influence on some other players sharing the race with us.

This does count

Yes, RSF is only a game. Yes, we should all take things easy. But no, getting provocated and insulted on a daily basis for weeks is not something to take easy.
I got very bored of it, very pissed of it, and tried my best to never over react and go mad at him.
But enough is enough. I don't want to be pissed after a race only cause once again I did not enjoy RSF time because of his insults and provocations using half of space in the chat.
Even if it's only online game and everything should be all right, believe me that it does affect your mood after a while, and also makes you hate what you liked : spending a good time playing RSF !

This week, I am having a good time on RSF because we don't share the same race. But everybody should be able to have a good time on RSF, who ever is in the group or not, right ?

The words :

Here is a list of words from I saved from chat in our races.
I started to save some of these moments in August, but it started weeks earlier during the TDF.
I insist on the repetitiveness, the ruthlessness and stubbornness of his attacks during the past weeks. And don't forget that what is here is only a short part of what was said from him, as he was talking bad in dozens of races from early in July.

(sorry if sometimes the copy/paste made it a bit in wrong order (down/up, up/down reading), by reading you will easily understand anyway)

06/08

OLcycle: that's not how yapping sound. you saying whine whine whine and repeating non stop the same stuff seems more like yapping. once again I will repeat : I just wrote something yesterday to share with others the fact that you were not here.
Big Donkey: that's yapping around... .but now you should go and show us that you are a huge hypocrite and write something in the winter thread....
Big Donkey: yap around, yes...
Big Donkey: You could simply ask me to stop:)
OLcycle: not*
OLcycle: I did yap around, I just wrote 1 sentence saying it was nice race without you, can't I express my feeling about yesterday's race ?
OLcycle: I allow possibilities of change, but I won't change my tactics and my plans just cause you think I should
OLcycle: who cares about fair play vote, you want to amuse me and provoke me but writing shit there, ok, let's play that really amusing game for ever
Big Donkey: Again, a arrogant and assholish stance...
Big Donkey: Then you're not listening, listening without allowing any possibilities for change is not real listening....
Big Donkey: And I don't mean Noel Coward either.
OLcycle: that's your opinion that I did wrong, not mine. you can think whatever you want, I can listen to it, but won't change anything about my idea about my team during that race
Big Donkey: For days when I'm here you say nothing, as soon as I'm not hear you start yapping around.
Big Donkey: Oh.... see, that's a COWARD
Big Donkey: Hihi, haha
Big Donkey: Well... you are the guy taking it so seriously that you even just give me -2 because I give you -2!
OLcycle: yesterday, I just said it was good without you, cause at least you were not here to write bad things on me and pissing on me as usual since weeks
OLcycle: opponent ? opponent of what ? arguing over some game in a PM on the internet ... opponent ... you are funny
Tulpengeneral: no i hope he ignores me
Big Donkey: I'm a donkey, not an ape, du Tulpenkorporal du!!!!
OLcycle: laugh as much as you want, I still don't care, treat me of all names you want, I don;t care, I am hypocrite, ok. but then Hipocrite would not loose time in Nancy and keep hunting stages all way long, if I felt I had a chance and wanted GK, I ve have done things in a another way to try to get then ... anyway, I am just repeating myself, you are just not able to understand that my opinion is different and that I did not play for gk, but whatever.
Big Donkey: Or said in other words. an asshole
Big Donkey: Not man enough to man up to your mistakes
Big Donkey: Not man enough to listen to what in the opinion of the opponent you did wrong
Big Donkey: Not man enough to face "the opponent"...
Tulpengeneral: this ape ignores me
Big Donkey: Well, but yesterday as soon as I was not here you found the courage to wrote disparaging comments... that makes you a coward.
OLcycle: you think I care ? I did not even answered once even if you try to attack me on chats every day since the end of Tdf, I am just a little annoyed now, cause it gets repetitive and it seems that you are only looking for fights and aggressiveness here, if you don't have anything else to think about in your life and in rsf than trying to annoy me and make me react here ... poor you
rexon: in the normal menu i think this is the problem
Big Donkey: No chance only because you ride like an idiot... if you ride sensibly...
Tulpengeneral: what did i do, roby?
Big Donkey: Hihihihihi, hahahaha, hehehehe... you're such a hypocrite.

OLcycle: I said I knew I had no chance, I was talking about my opinion about my rider. that's all.
Big Donkey: You obviously.
OLcycle: since when writing a PM makes you man ? and I do not give a shit about you being pissed. be pissed if you want, be angry if you want, who cares ...
Big Donkey: And funny to hear from YOU that others "know what would have happened"... your whole tour was telling everybody you knew what would happen....
Big Donkey: If you don't understand WHAT pissed me off, write me a PM, more than happy to explain it to you in details.. .but you're not man enough for that I guess.
OLcycle: sure sure
Big Donkey: It's a pretty much on target description of your chat behavioiur in the Tour de France... whine whine whine, ride for me, ride for me, ride for me.
Big Donkey: It's not an insult.
OLcycle: sure, keep insulting me
OLcycle: sure, you know what would have happened ..
Big Donkey: Over TdF? Long time ago, nothing to get over for me either, I won, who cares....getting over your hypocrisy, your asshole behaviour the whole time is harder.
Big Donkey: He would have won green easily. You had more chances for yellow than green:)
OLcycle: of course, you know what would have happened if he stayed, you master of predictions
Girl Power : gw geier
Big Donkey: And easier to work with "sprint now" etc.... but all from the sprint thing itself
Big Donkey: rexon, are you sprinting from the tactic tab or in the sprint thing directly?
Big Donkey: See, not only you benefit from gifts OL! And this was less a gift than 50% of what Quickstep stuffed up your ass in the tour.... including green which he had won if he stayed.. hihi


08/08

Big Donkey: And retard OL isn't getting that I talk about the last hill.... then whatever chances he missed before didn't matter anymore, there the best for him was to try the sieb... which YOU in my position would have told him.
Big Donkey: After I attacked was pretty clear that the tempo would get higher....
Big Donkey: Your usual problem, you can't focus on more than one thing....
rexon: one km to late i set this but then dane with his 71-83 was in tempo
OLcycle: he had opportunity to get me in trouble, way before that last climb I was focussed on escar, not on rexon
Big Donkey: Or you could just follow the donkeys:)
Big Donkey: The attack was actually worth a try, not much else you could try there....


13/08

Without talking to me (no answer from me in the chat), he stills talks bad about me to others :

Big Donkey: Ayay BW, big mistake, if now you don't win OL will whine about your lack of fairplay and decent riding for years

Big Donkey: You have to know that OL isn't riding for the win, he just wants mountain points probably....
bergwerk: your are on my 2nd side
Big Donkey: I'd prefer not to be on the same list as OL

Big Donkey: Or ask OL, he knows everything!

Big Donkey: Well, 14-16 tours are not that good anymore anyway, since OL started riding here the level definetly went down...

Big Donkey: il sait même pas compter en plus le retardé
Big Donkey: P3, il a P3...

24/08

Big Donkey: But ok, he's kind of a retard, so possibly he actually is riding for him
Big Donkey: Don't think he's really riding for him, using the riders he used for the chase...
Big Donkey: Ah, the OL guy?
Big Donkey: Who's Algot?
WhereStheBlueLake: yeah, let's all ride for algot

Big Donkey: Winter calendar you retard.

Big Donkey: Serious topic for RSF is what I meant. Which you know.. .so why the need to make believe you don't know? Again... .show how small minded you are.


25/08

Big Donkey: And as I said yesterday, I always treated you with respect. The respect you deserve. Ok, lately not, I treat you with MORE respect than you worm deserve.

Big Donkey: Anyway... since we have time now, how about you start the consequences you pussy?

Big Donkey: Ah.... but what is really interesting then is: Why the constant need to piss on those that tried to make the winter calendar better in the last few years? Why the lies about how it worked? Why call them a "lobby" instead of just accepting that they tried to improve the winter calendar the same way you try now.. and got no response collaboration like you do know? That's why you're a complete asshole in the end.

PS :

Today (12/09) :

Big Donkey<18:48>: So... if he isn't man enough (I'm pretty sure he isn't, he's a little pussy) (so you have more for your whiny thread little OL, copy-paste)

Big Donkey<18:56>: And you and the pussy OL are right that it can be improved.

Extra :

And he is not only insulting me, even if he made a good effort focussing on me over the past weeks.
He can easily insult anyone in the game, as this small example caught in the general chat of the game shows it :

(start to read from down)

BlackEnergie<18:16>: pour incitation au suicide?:)
Big Donkey<18:16>: T'est pas trop "bright" en plus il semble
Big Donkey<18:16>: Moi bien sur connard
BlackEnergie<18:16>: je suis censé faire quoi porter plainte aux keufs?:)
BlackEnergie<18:16>: Finalement toi c'est qu'un petit fils de pute nul, je te recommande le suicide, le plus tot possible. dixit donkey. qui abuse lui ou moi?
BlackEnergie<18:15>: certaines fois on perd on dit rien c est logique on dit gw...mais là j ai juste un doute. c 'est peut etre une parano je dis pas mais j ai un doute c est tout pas de quoi me faire traiter comme ca
Big Donkey<18:14>: The sooner he stops, the better. By suicide or not, in the end don't really care
Big Donkey<18:14>: The guy is just an asshole clearly, thinks he's so good he's unbeatable unless other cheat.
BlackEnergie<18:14>: mais je suis un nul
BlackEnergie<18:13>: assedic : 6 victoires une place de deux en 8 courses:)
Big Donkey<18:13>: I have a shit team, I didn't win, only logical conclusion is: IT WAS A CONSPIRACY!!!!!!!!
RideforMoney<18:13>: ouais
RideforMoney<18:13>: Ardèche Team<18:00>: en meme temps dans ce jeu , avec leur skype ou chpa quoi ils traficent les courses
Big Donkey<18:13>: Why do you guys welcome back utter assholes like BlackEnergie?
BlackEnergie<18:12>: merci ardeche en effet c'est surement possible. moi j ai agresse personne. alors pourquoi ce type (le primate) me parle comme ca on peut savoir?
TeamRasta<18:10>: anyway welcome back
Luques<18:10>: Banned for multi
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:10>: hum don't remember Assedic !
TeamRasta<18:10>: and who was assedic team, 17 races and 6 wins doesnt seems realistic
Luques<18:08>: then they decided to do a professional painting and put them somewhere near the centre
BlackEnergie<18:08>: assedic team
Big Donkey<18:08>: But no Tsoy no fun I guess.!
Luques<18:08>: the major was angry saying he doesn't not tolerate this kind of thing on the most important street of the city.... but then many people started protesting
Big Donkey<18:08>: Good music!
Luques<18:07>: nice thing, the same day they painted on the main street on a wall big graffiti of Tsoy
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:07>: r Sukuran Pokemon is excellent, Aisaka Taiga is excellent
Big Donkey<18:07>: Non mais serieux... les débutants qui voient les arrangement quand il ne gagne pas.... j'en ai marre, qu0ils arretent s'il sont pas capable de perdre
Luques<18:06>: btw... went to the Kino concert
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:06>: erase
Luques<18:06>: what Excellent?
Big Donkey<18:06>: Excellent
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:06>: Totally rease this defeat of my memory
Big Donkey<18:06>: Je vais pas loins... il l'a déjà fais il semble....
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:06>: ah yes, Blom !
Luques<18:05>: YNGVE!
Luques<18:05>: against you!
Luques<18:04>: but it's becoming harder and harder to find 2 hours when I'm in Rus
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:04>: :O ? When ?
Luques<18:04>: Last time I won
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:03>: No need a conspiracy against Luques, longtime I don't see this team in a race !
RideforMoney<18:03>: ouais enfin le singe, t'vas loin.
Luques<18:03>: Andrey is leaving anyway
Lotto-Belisol<18:02>: mdr c'est qui ce black energie
Luques<18:02>: Against Luques!
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:02>: A conspiracy against Andrey ?
Luques<18:01>: buuuuuu
r Sukuran Pokemon<18:01>: offf, le numéro ce mois ci il est pas en haut grace à Skype, ca c'est une certitude !
Luques<18:01>: There is a BIG Conspiracy to make Luques lose
Ardèche Team<18:00>: en meme temps dans ce jeu , avec leur skype ou chpa quoi ils traficent les courses
r Sukuran Pokemon<17:59>: hum y en a qui ont 1000 courses qui pensent tjrs ça lol
Big Donkey<17:59>: Allez, bye bye
Big Donkey<17:59>: Finalement toi c'est qu'un petit fils de pute nul, je te recommande le suicide, le plus tot possible.


I think, a conclusion is not even needed. Words are speaking for it.

Thank you FPC for reading this all and treating that case.

[Robyklebt]

Finally! OL promised this a while ago, but couldn't bring himself to post it earlier, finally it's here! So it wasn't an empty threat, he shows some guts after all our beloved pussy!

Let's start at the top:

There, he started to express his hate and insults towards me on a daily basis. Unfortunately, I did not think to save his words as a proof at that time; thinking that he would stop and that it's not such a big deal.

Incorrect. I object to this wording in particular: " he started to express his hate and insults towards me on a daily basis" this implies that I hate OL, which is not the case, I think he's a bit of an asshole at times, a hypocrite and a little whiny baby pretty much all the time, but don't hate him for that.
Plus some more details on when exactly during the TdF this started would of course be appreciated. When during those 3 weeks did the "insults", for which you have no proof, start? Agree that the provocations started during the TdF. Not sure anymore about the insults, possible, but very possible they started later too. Directly after the TdF. But my question here is: WHEN during the TdF did it start?

During that TDF, he obviously did not like some things I was doing (the way I was riding, or the way I was chatting in the chat), that's his right and his opinion, no problem about that. The problem is that it turns out that from his opinion come insults and provocations on a daily basis in that TDF in July.

I did not break any fair-play rule during TDF, about the tactics or about the respect to other players. I don't consider that I acted bad or did things that were bad, only him thought it. It was only his opinion and nothing linked to the rules of fair-play. Sorry if I insist on that point, looks important to me.

From the TDF, he started to talk bad about me, with daily provocations and insults. I don't have proofs of it (before 06-08) as I said, but maybe some other players can remember it. I did nont react bad to his provocation, trying sometimes to argue, but as it was senseless and pointless imo, I decided to stop doing it and be silent.

You did not break any fair play rules, correct, I never claimed you did. But being fair play is and following the rules are not the same thing. With regards to respect to others during the TdF you definetly were NOT fairplay.

Then daily provocations is wrong, there were only provocations when we rode together.

This week, I am having a good time on RSF because we don't share the same race. But everybody should be able to have a good time on RSF, who ever is in the group or not, right ?

Very important sentence this, one I fully agree with. And when I say it's payback time I mean exactly this. Your constant whining, trying to influence the others, denigrating achievements, manipulating others to ride/not to ride IS FUCKING TIRING. So, after listening to the same broken record for over 2 weeks during the TdF, 2 weeks that were very tiring due to your constant whining and complete lack of respect for others, using the chat mostly to simply get others to ride like you'd want them to ride, "help" for newcomers depending on the race situation.... now it's PAYBACK time. I'm happy to hear it worked, after having to endure the torture of riding with you for 2+ weeks, I managed to take some of the fun away for you too. Excellent. The original plan btw was a 2 month payback time after the TdF, would have finished soon, of course it will be extended now. UNLESS you do an effort and try to show some respect for others, and if it's only me, by trying to manipulate others less. So far of course you clearly said you had no intention of changing anything. Since nobody but me thinks you actually do manipulate. So are you saying I don't have the right to have fun playing RSF? Interesting.

I insist on the repetitiveness, the ruthlessness and stubbornness of his attacks during the past weeks. And don't forget that what is here is only a short part of what was said from him, as he was talking bad in dozens of races from early in July.

Again you are lying. In a detail only, but still lying, that's another problem we have, you occasionally have a certain problem with the truth it seems. But ok. "repetitiveness, the ruthlessness and stubbornness", correct, thank you, actually I'm rather proud of that. Only a short part, correct too, well doubts about your english here, but of course I said the same thing over and over. Like you basically, it's payback time whiny boy! The lie is: Early July.
Care to retract that or do you stick to your lie?

Anyway, I'll continue another time.

My plea of course is: Guilty for provocations. Guilty for insults.
But I demand discounts for OL lies, misrepresentations and omissions in his presentation here, and for parts of his behaviour ingame, we'll come to that in the next installment. There's quite a few. For the moment I demand a discount for the following things (unless OL retracts them here, then no discount needed)

- the claim I hate him.
- the claim in started in early July

Both wrong.

[Eagle]

Can we discuss the problem with RFM too, its looks funny

Popcorn for all

[IDF]

Praise Tulpe.

[Robyklebt]

Can we discuss the problem with RFM too, its looks funny

Popcorn for all

No problem with RfM! Actually I love him since he posted this in the game chat!

RideforMoney<23:43>: i'm not competent sorry

[Robyklebt]

BTW I ask the fairplay committee to wait to make their decision until I finished answering here. Which won't be today.

[luques]

BTW I ask the fairplay committee to wait to make their decision until I finished answering here. Which won't be today.

FPK reviews the case.

Obviously you have all the time to answer.

[sylvainmeteo]

Hello RSF Community

I also undergo a lot of insults from Robyklebt since september 2013, but unlike OL, I didn't make screens or so, and he's excited each time he sees me (or race with me) like today were I only connected to the game : " Big Donkey<17:33>: SM the moron is here! "

And sometimes insults were worse like 'fils de pute' and other big words, in french or english...

The problem is he is right to disagree with someone and/or a way of riding.

BUT, It's not a reason to write insults or bad words 1 sentence out of 2, you can show your disagreement by another (softer) way,or just keep it for yourself...

This is not especially against you Donkey, but you need to canalize yourself, and you're not the only one, you're not allowed more than another to write such things, and that's not good for the attractiveness of the game, like the new guy you insulted said (in french he said "it's because people like you that the game doesn't have a lot of beginners at this moment"), when you see someone writing bad things that often...

But I go over it and move forward, it's just a game

[Robyklebt]

I'm canalizing PERFECTLY. I know who I insult and I know why.

You deserve every insult you get. Actually you should get insulted way more.

The problem is he is right to disagree with someone and/or a way of riding.

Why is it a problem that I'm right to disagree with someone etc etc? Are you a fascist that you think being right to disagree (I guess you mean to have the right to disagree) is a problem?

BUT, It's not a reason to write insults or bad words 1 sentence out of 2, you can show your disagreement by another (softer) way,or just keep it for yourself...

In fact it isn't the reason. See, stop assuming, start reading and try to understand. But you can't, that's clear by now. In your case (unlike in the OL case)I actually told you x times in a much politer way WHAT about you is bothering me, the answer was nonsensical, allowing only 2 conclusions:
1) you are a piece of shit that enjoys taking away the fun from others.
2) you are too dumb to understand what others are saying.
I'm pretty sure it's no 2, but it doesn't really matter anymore, in both cases it's time for some harrassing and some insults after a while. Might do a search for the final straw here in the forum sooner or later, just for fun, since you were nice enough to tell me it's september 13.
Plus it's not one sentence out of 2 either, in general it's much less, in your case I try to get a better ratio, like 2 out of 2, but occasionally fail.

[sylvainmeteo]

I think others managers don't care if you're right or I'm right, it's just the words that you use, the ones you use to describe me, OL and some others aren't allowed, that's all...

[Robyklebt]

Eh, aaah... oookay, SM, ookay, nr 2 it is, thanks.

Back to OL, Donkey going horse races now, continue tonight here.

2 things: OL is editing his opening post, nothing wrong with that (although I'm a bit sad he realized that not being Noel Coward is not really an insult), but maybe could mention in on top of his post, since he is a moderator and it doesn't show when and if it has been edited.
And second I still want an answer for these 2 questions:

- Do you, OL, insist on saying that it started in early July?
- Do you now realize that I don't hate you?

[cataracs]

donkey tells you what he thinks about you directly and with the best possible words (which is insults some times ) , but you OL try to make others believe in what you want by telling lies and other shit..you always want to be the nice guy....but you are not you are a complete asshole

[Robyklebt]

Here I am! Couldn't do it yesterday, too tired, tried to hire an attorney, but SM wasn't around, so now have to do it alone.

Insults starting in early July:
It seems OL insists that that was the case, after all he didn't answer here Unfortunately it's untrue. It's a detail, yes (well kind of, if you plan to base the punishment based on the lenght of the harassment it's a 3 week difference), but is typical for OL. Why stick to the truth if something else sounds better? He really has a special relationship with the truth, our good boy.

It started the 25th of July, that simple.
Backstory: Try to keep it short, doubt I'll manage, but: TdF together. IMO OLs rider the favorite. Purely from the numbers, the Black Star climber the favorite, but not a bad parcours for Jokubas, pavé time gain, then quite a few stages where with his flat he can get more time. Decisive though: Black Star has in the past shown great reluctance to ride for his chances, if he that reluctance continued, then Jokubas the favorite for me. OL on the other hand always claimed that a) Jokubas has no chance. b) that he wasn't focusing on GC. A claim that evolved into something more like I don't care at all about the GC.
First days, all pretty normal. Pavé gain for OL, some time gain (at least partly avoidable, but see above about Black Star, and wasn't my job then) on other stages, on time loss in one. Important evidence for OL in his daily proclamations about his lack of GC interest, if he was riding for GC he wouldn't have lost time there... well, IMO he just hung on the wrong rider. Until there nothing special. OL telling others what to do here and there, but in an acceptable amount.
The decisive stage: Attack from far by OL, Kopelyan hangs, Gore there too. Black Star reacting very slowly.. GC for Jokubas. Then a surprise offer by OL, Kopelyan riding in downhill and slight hills, then Jokubas wouldn't drop him, wouldn't attack, wouldn't follow others and would keep riding til the end if Gore went. Ok, good deal, take it. Otherwise would have ridden in the back, which still would have given OL a big time advantage, but less than it was like this. Then Jokubas, Jerebko rode full power, all red, Gore joined too. What for? Gore had no chance whatsoever in GC. Jokubas wasn't interested it was claimed later, the only one winning was me. And did clearly the least, a few downhill km, some +3... and not sprint. Why ride like crazy to get over 2'45" to Wikberg and co? Green? The only serious opponent was Gore. Team classification? Probably. Even though he was the only one interested. Or maybe maybe GC? If not for GC the way OL rode there made no sense. Drop Kopelyan, fight for the stage with Gore, if that's all there is. GC, Kopelyan there, but 1' more to the guy in the back, maybe worth it, keep him. If OL really wasn't interested at all in the GC the ride there made 0 sense.

Next day Planche des Belles Filles: Jokubas goes again, excellent attack, for a while even the stage looked possible. Behind 2 guys chasing, me and Black. OL's opinion: Don't ride. I'm only interested in the stage, I'm not riding GC. Don't ride, I only want the stage. Ehm, that's what Black wanted too, and got, and for me, well, we have the yellow jersey, who has 1'20" or so advantage over my rider, my big opponent in the fight for yellow ahead and I'm supposed to let him win the stage? Seriously? And as he likes to do it, he stated his "tactical advice" for the chasers more than once.
And this sillyness continued for the rest of the tour.
The same everyday. Proclamations (unasked most of the time) Jokubas doesn't care about GC. Words. Acts were: Jokubas attacks. "Just for stages." Of course when Quick did the attack in the wrong moment OL complained too, earlier attack and I ride to gain more time (BUT WHAT FOR?????) but officially we still got to hear from OL on basically a daily basis he wasn't interested in the GC. Even Black Star once told him that then maybe he should just drop Jokubas from the peloton one day, then he'd get more freedom from me.... it turned out the dropping action that day wasn't possible, team classification. Anyway, I obviously chased OL when he attacked. I wanted yellow, he has it, of course I don't want to lose more time. But only these proclamations then acts that really don't fit alone wouldn't bother me that much, tiring yes, but in addition we still had the tempo whining complaining.
Chases: Very often Black joined, stage hunt. Which wasn't ok according to OL (at times, not always) because he helps me. Sometimes others join, for no reason really. Immediately we hear the OL recording going off: stop riding for the donkey!!!!!!! Most of the time they were slowing me down. But basically a correct and acceptable statement by OL, the problem of course: At the same time more often than not in front he got senseless help by others, mostly by Quickstep, who seemed to be there to perfect the art off stuffing stage wins up OLs ass. At times ridiculous. What did I (and the others in the chat say and do?) Nothing. OL too, he just profited. The others: Nobody else gave any tips to quickstep during the race either. After, yes, of course, commenting, criticizing, but during the race we all let him do his thing, even if it was completely pointless and just gifting a stage to OL. On the other hand OL constantly and immediately always questioned almost any tempo in the back, or any tempo that didn't help him. From my GC tempo to la Planche des Belles Filles, stage hunters tempo (Black star, Coca Cola later) and the useless tempo of the guys who really shouldn't have been in tempo as well. Constant background noise, constant complaining, constant attempts to manipulate, while at the same time profiting from Quickstep tempo that at times was as pointless as the one I got from a few guys in the back. Difference only that my "help" forced me to put in yes alone after a while, while his "help" gave him high tempo and stage wins.Quick then gave up the tour, he said he had enough, without precising of what really, general frustration he said. The tour continued in the same style. OL attacks, complains if chased. He attacks, I don't let him go on GC stages, not nice of me, he promises he's only going for stages and he won't use the guys in front as helpers for any Jokubas attacks. Nice, but let me ride my race? Others chase, not ok either, for the stage, Coca Cola twice, twice not ok, once he got the stage once not (OL, with my help in the last few km) Constant and increasing (or maybe it just felt like it) manipulation attempts.

I got yellow the 23rd finally. The 24th top of Tourmalet I attack, hoping that Bertolini of Coca Cola, who now could be a danger isn't following me, like the day before when Wikberg tried a weird attacking tactic and he wasn't hanging. This time he was. Shit. Ok, stop then oh, Jokubas is in the back! 19" behind me in GC at that point, but wasn't hanging on me and now way back. Ok, ride. Normally he's out, but I ride. Which I still regard as a absolutely normal tactic. But OL again starts complaining. "you only ride because I'm in the back" Obviously. "you only ride against me".. no, against Jokubas, that day I actually had let the OL attacker go it was Coca Cola who then rode (while being told by OL he shouldn't of course) and caught him just in time to get the stage in the end. Highly upset OL, of course me riding then hurt his attackers chance, but why should I stop riding for my GC just so OL can get another stage? LET ME RIDE MY RACE. If you see obvious mistakes ok, tell me, but actually not OL. I've known him long enough to know that he uses the chat as a tactical weapon, not to actually help others (at times with complete beginners he does that too though, but most of his tips and helps are just manipulation.) The usual whining at first, but he then got pretty offensive too, Accusation of being unfair (ok, indirect and more like of lacking sportsmanship maybe), denigrating my probable TdF success calling it worthless (I know pretty much how much it's worth actually, thanks), only got it because everybody rides for me (well, he and Quick on the decisive stage, true, otherwise Jokubas got way more senseless pulls from others PLUS, the other climbers rode in a way that favored him, not me and most climbs (and actually didn't favour themselves either), making fun of me being soooo proud of my win, telling me it made me feel good to drop him. Basically insulting, without using insults. Of course I answered too, again I think without using actual insults, but in an insulting way too most likely. Don't really remember. But that day, if we would count this as insults OL started it and OL was more insulting. So we reached the final climb, with the unpleasant insulting whining of OL in the foreground, and here next he decided that he needed to coach Coca Cola, at this point my last opponent for the GC. In the Alps Coca Cola had ridden pretty badly. Attacking after a Wikberg attack instead of doing tempo. OL never mentioned anything. Pyrenees the same mistake once, attack instead of sieb. OL quiet. Now? Now OL discovered that Coca Cola needed help (Actually he didn't, the day before he had finally done everything right (ok, after a possible mistake in not following)) Before all was ok, maybe before the correct tips would have hurt Jokubas? And now didn't anymore? Now Coca Cola rode a 6 with me, that was the end of the world, then an 8, that was bad too (after a while he backed of on that one).. then attacked, which indeed was not perfect (but not that bad since we weren't at 100) Whine whine whine by OL and basically in "let's help Coca Cola beat the donkey" mode. He was upset, for no reason really, ok, people say things they regret when their upset (that's why I try to start insulting after I calmed down) still no need to pretty openly cheer against another guy and attempt to coach his opponent so that he beats him. Lack of sportsmanship was and IS all on OLs side. Anyway, that was it. Now I had enough. More than 2 weeks of OL constantly complaining about tempo, OL telling others what they should do, basically OL manipulating. Enough. As the donkey likes to do, thought it over one night, and then started the payback the day later. Which basically was harassing him.

Can easily check that in the fairness vote, from the 25th on it was -2 for OL, well, not the 26th, but since there I got the typical OL payback -2, from then on it was -2 for him everyday. Except one day when I forgot to change it to -2. So he got +1. Funny he didn't retaliate on that one, that day I got no -2 either. OL, OL. Could have been a peace branch? Which oyu missed by not giving me +1 (don't worry, it wasn't)

Short version: Chat behaviour during the tour:
OL: Always telling others what they should do. Always claiming others get help for nothing. Always manipulating. While at the same time profiting from Quickstep a lot.
Me: Letting others ride the way they ride. Giving them tips, criticize their shit riding AFTER the stage or AFTER mistakes.

In the end it was the second least enjoyable GT of my RSF career. REason: OLs constant complaining, looking for excuses and manipulating attempts.

This btw is not here as an excuse or for less punishment, just an explanation on why I started my payback. Harassment. In cold blood.

PAYBACK TIME!!
Of course according to the fairness rules the wrong way to go about it. Of course there would have been x better solutions too. Ask OL to maybe try to do a bit less manipulating? But a) thought it was hopeless to ask him politely and b) when in doubt, attack, I rather enjoy pissing people off at times. The goal was clearly to make RSF less enjoyable for OL, I'm happy to hear from him that I succeeded. RSF less fun in the races we are together, out of races I mostly ignored him I think. Until now that is Yes, I could have done x other things, but since he made a big part of a GT pretty unenjoyable for me, decided I was going to make his races with me unenjoyable.

Now to the evidence:
All correct, correct too that there were more harassing races. The problem though is: Why aren't the full chats posted?
Could it be because then we would see that OL didn't just take my harassment including insults, but on the days he answered, he was happily being insulting himself? Yes, that's the reason. Once again the truth doesn't seem enough for OL, or too much maybe in this case, so let's do some snipping. Sorry, haven't copied anything. OL though has most likely. Anyway, for this I ask for a discount, or even better, a percentage of my fine or banishment or whatever I get for OL. I think posting here in a way that makes it seem OL never retaliated, never insulted himself, is very very very low and dishonest and shouldn't go unpunished. Punishment either with less punishment for me, or some for him. Regardless of what he does now, even if he posts the full chats, I still ask for a discount. And there were insults by him too. I'm the instigator, yes, he's only the retaliator. Even in full chats I have more than him. (Well, in the ones he didn't answer he has 0 of course) And I'm not asking for a punishment for him for his insults, I'm asking for punishment/discount for his attempt to hide his occasional retaliation.) Of course I don't have proof of his insults. But a few can be found in his fairness votes. Should be enough to show that unlike the impression he tries to give here, he did indeed retaliate with insults at times.

Next:

So, I decided to talk again and try to see how we could end up that situation. No solution was found or given, all answers I could get were more and more insulting and offensive. His only answer was to say it's payback time (after what he did not like in TDF (which was nothing wrong)) and that he proposed me to talk in PM and I did not send him any, so my chance to speak was gone.

Another misrepresention for which I ask a discount. Or OL showing where exactly he "tried to see how we could end upt that situation" He never did.

For the moment I'm asking for discounts (or punishment for him) in 4 different cases

1. claim that I hate him. Untrue. Here minimal stuff, 1% or so I would think.
2. Claiming it started in early July: Clear misrepresentation of the facts, not corrected even after pointing out the "mistake". 10%
3. Editing his copy and paste effort and writing his post in a way that makes it seem OL himself never retaliated, never insulted. This one I admit pisses me off, lack of honesty, for this I'd propose 40%
4. Claim to have tried to solve the situation. A lie, (unless he posts something, don't think there is anything, but don't remember every detail either) 10%

Of course that's only what I ask for... up to you to decide. I might add a demand too though:)
Will accept whatever you decide is the punishment (ok, maybe not everything, if you want me to apologize to OL forget it, while it was wrong (well, objectively wrong, from my subjective point of view it's mostly not a very nice tihng to do, but not really wrong), it was not undeserved and he doesn't deserve an apology)
And of course it would be appreciated if OL could do an effort to manipulate and complain less in his races, or at least in the ones with me. Of course last time I asked him to do this (in his solving attempt that was by me actually) I was told it was my problem, not his.

The question here is if OL is interested in solving the problem or in giving me a punishment as high as possible. His presentation here looks more like the second, no 3 in the list above at least leads me to believe that. For me no problem to bury the hatch, regardless of how big the punishment is, but of course I'd expect a more honest and less manipulating OL in future races. And a more honest one in the forum. As I said, I don't hate him (But I'm fully aware that he can be an asshole, that he's a whiny baby and a "trotzkopf".) Still, unlike SM he's not stupid, so there is something to work with. But as he said, he can't stand me (his lack of taste is regrettable) and because of this refuses to congratulate me on my wins, the prospects don't look good.

BTW, OL of course could have had the same "deal" (me stopping, if he makes an effort) but without a punishment for me, if he had written me an PM like I proposed to him. He didn't, why? (Of course I was happy he didn't take the deal too, I preferred harassing him a bit more)

Conclusion: I plead guilty for harassment with insults (IMO the best term here)
Now I go and buy milk

[NoPikouze]

Dear members,
I'm also harassed by a ruthless donkey on a daily basis. Can I get some money please ?

By the way, I'm a little doubtful about the concept of "I want to have a good time on RSF, but if I screw it for other players with my annoying chats that's cool".

[Robyklebt]

Decision?
It isn't such a difficult case after all.

[flockmastoR]

Decision?
It isn't such a difficult case after all.

they are still reading your post^^

[Hunsrueck]

FPK has the following penalty set: FINE OF 300000, Warning: Yes

[olmania]

FPK has the following penalty set: FINE OF 300000, Warning: Yes

Is it a joke ?

[Robyklebt]

Obviously not a joke, the money seems gone.

Can I ak if I got any discount for OLs blatant dishonesty and misrepresentations here?

[team fl]

Obviously not a joke, the money seems gone.

Can I ak if I got any discount for OLs blatant dishonesty and misrepresentations here?

An indication that it happend might be OL's reaction to the penalty...

[olmania]

Then can I ask how you set up the fines as well ?

Cause f.e you give 150k for a newbie that seems to act bad for the first time (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4370), but then gives only the double for someone who is insulting other player for weeks and weeks, and regularly insults other players. Especially when you all know that 300k is really nothing for most of big/old teams, some of them did even more benefits in the small cat1 Gevaudan tour f.e. So ? Where is the logic ?

Also, what's the logic of that warning ? A warning is here to prevent from recidivism, right ? What's the point of giving a warning to someone who already shown he is a multipl-recidivist ?

I am really wondering how you determined that decision, thanks for your answer.

These were my two questions. So, according to the situation, if the penalty you gave is definitive, in my opinion it's clearly a sign showing that harrassing and insulting others is tolerated in the game. If players see that for only 300k they can harass and insult freely someone for weeks and weeks ...

Can I ak if I got any discount for OLs blatant dishonesty and misrepresentations here?

Can you keep your interpretation and your opinion as a such please, and stop always presenting it as a fact ?

[Robyklebt]

Since OL felt the need to expand on why he thinks my fine needed to be higher, I feel the unrestrainable urge to explain why I think he should be getting a percentage of the fine to pay as well. Although I won't be able to do it mostly in question format, like he did, I'll just go with statements!

Generally if one guy insults the other, and the other insults back, that should be taken into account. Depending on the severity and ratio of the insults, either by giving a lesser fine to the worse offender, or by giving proportional fines to both. Depends on the case, in this one I think a normal discount would be ok. I think that has been done like this in the past and is often still handled this way, pretty normal procedure I guess.

More important is the behaviour in this thread though. It's important for the fairplay committee to be able to rely on the reports they get. All reports, by the accuser, by the accused, by witnesses. They have to have accurate reports, so that in the end their judgement is just. If they get untrue reports, half-truths, lies, manipulation and rely on it, in the end their judgement can't be expected to be just. So it's important to make it clear that manipulation etc in the fairness threads won't work. How? By fining people (with percentages of the fine the accused, added to the already existing fine if it's the accused who does the manipulating) who are manipulating, or attempting to manipulate the fairness committee with the goal of increasing/decreasing the fine) Of course it's often difficult to decide if something is really attempted manipulation, or just the highly subjective view of a poster, if it's how he really feels, or if he indeed is trying to manipulate.
In this case it seems crystal clear to me that he is manipulating. Without rehashing everything a short summary:
- Whole "accusation post" gives the impression that OL was always just the victim, never insulted himself
- He once even explicitly states:

I did nont react bad to his provocation, trying sometimes to argue, but as it was senseless and pointless imo, I decided to stop doing it and be silent.

So depends on his definition of bad. I'd say insulting is bad. He says so too when I do it. Another time he states:

I got very bored of it, very pissed of it, and tried my best to never over react and go mad at him.

Definition of over react and how tried my best is meant. It certainly implies that in the end he didn't overreact. If overreacting=insults, then he did.
- Reality is: He did retaliate. Both in the fairness comments (everybody can check those) and in the chat (can't prove that, OL could most likely, but decided not too)
- Even after my assertion that he did retaliate, he didn't correct anything, he didn't feel the need to admit that he too did use "bad words". (Clearly less than me, but here it's not about that) He didn't feel the need to post full chats (assuming he had them)
For me that's attempted manipulation.

Then to OL...

OL, OL, my dear OL, sometimes you are hilarious.

Can you keep your interpretation and your opinion as a such please, and stop always presenting it as a fact ?

MMh, ok, now let's apply the same tough standard you used to interprete my sentence to one of the countless sentences you wrote in this thread. Which one should we take? Oh, how about this one?

Can you keep your interpretation and your opinion as a such please, and stop always presenting it as a fact ?

Result: You are presenting your interpretation and your opinion as fact!
Using your standard of course. By using a more normal standard both my and your sentence are easily recognizable as containing the opinion/interpretation of the author.
So.. what's the point of this sentence? You could call it trolling.

[olmania]

Generally if one guy insults the other, and the other insults back, that should be taken into account. Depending on the severity and ratio of the insults, either by giving a lesser fine to the worse offender, or by giving proportional fines to both. Depends on the case, in this one I think a normal discount would be ok. I think that has been done like this in the past and is often still handled this way, pretty normal procedure I guess.

When did I insult you ? Where and how ?
You were insulting me for weeks, and most of the time I was silent, not reacting to your violent provocations.
When I was reacting, I was never sending insults back.

They have to have accurate reports, so that in the end their judgement is just. If they get untrue reports, half-truths, lies, manipulation and rely on it, in the end their judgement can't be expected to be just. So it's important to make it clear that manipulation etc in the fairness threads won't work. How? By fining people (with percentages of the fine the accused, added to the already existing fine if it's the accused who does the manipulating) who are manipulating, or attempting to manipulate the fairness committee with the goal of increasing/decreasing the fine) Of course it's often difficult to decide if something is really attempted manipulation, or just the highly subjective view of a poster, if it's how he really feels, or if he indeed is trying to manipulate.

I am not sure I understand why you are trying to say ?
That I tried to manipulate the FPC ? How ?
I only did copy/paste of the chat boxes showing all your insults and provocations.

Whole "accusation post" gives the impression that OL was always just the victim, never insulted himself

Even if sometimes it was hard to stay calm (I admit), I always stayed calmed. I did not insult you back.
You are wrongly accusing me. Not only insulting me for weeks, now trying to convince others (without proof) that I was insulting back, seriously ?

If overreacting=insults, then he did.
- Reality is: He did retaliate. Both in the fairness comments (everybody can check those) and in the chat (can't prove that, OL could most likely, but decided not too)

Fairness comments were not always nice, it's true. Insulting ? I don't think so.
In the chat ? No. You are wrong. I never insulted you back in the chat. And you accuse me now to not show the parts I d have insulted you back ? How could I ? They don't even exist these parts ! Unbelivible accusations from you.

For me that's attempted manipulation.

Not showing something that is not existing and never existed is an attempt of manipulation ? I am speechless.
Are you creating fake arguments and ideas hoping I won't answer you once again and get me a fine that way or your beloved discount you beg for ?

Also, one more point. When I opened that thread, I said what I had to say and did not feel that it was necessary for me to discuss any of your answers. I said what I had to say, mostly by showing the proofs. No need to argue it, proofs are here, FPC can see it and state. Now that they stated (what I was waiting for), I can write here again.

Well, to conclude, I feel really stupid that I even have to answer you; as the proofs were shown and there was nothing to argue, but seeing you asking a fine for me, it's just too big (and hilarious). I mean, the facts are here : you were insulting for weeks, behaved in a way that should not be allowed or tolerated. You get a miserable fine and still argue that I should get one as well or that you should get less ? I call this a provocation (a different style of what you used us of).

I was asking the FPC if that was a joke, yes, a joke ! That's what I think it is.
In my opinion, what happened is unacceptable. Not acceptable at all.
Proofs are here, and proofs show things that should not be seen in a game that want to keep a good and respectful atmosphere. In most (all but rsf?) of games involving a community, exchanges between players (competition also !), someone who is a multi-recidivist in insults and provocations would have been banned. Fined and warned if caught first time maybe. But a recidivist would have been banned. And probably for not even half of what you have done.
So, to me, setting a 300k and a simple warning is an allowance from FPC to all kind of abuse in the game. (I am still for their answer about my previous post with the questions). And FPC, let me add one more question : what do you need to see to ban a player (in the insults context, not the multi-account) ?

ps : I did not even get the end of your post ... will re-read maybe one day, after getting some food.

[Robyklebt]

When did I insult you ? Where and how ?

1) For example: in one race you actually apologized for insulting me. After I pointed out that you had insulted me as well. I off course didn't accept your insult and answered with another nice insult by me. If I reread your first post here again, maybe I can deduce the date, looking at what else is there, but not sure, can try if you want.
2) In the fairness votes. "sick and paranoiac", if you count my "how small minded" you are as an insult (which you do in your first post since it's red), I don't see how "sick and paranoiac" can not be an insult. Even if you don't count "how small minded you are" as an insult, sick and paranoiac is one.

Even if sometimes it was hard to stay calm (I admit), I always stayed calmed. I did not insult you back.

Maybe you stayed calm, can't judge that, but you did insult back. See no 1 as an example. There were others, the same day too. Overall much less insults than from me.

Honesty counts OL.

Is calling someone sick not insulting? Is calling someone paranoid (or paranoiac) not insulting?

[olmania]

When did I insult you ? Where and how ?

1) For example: in one race you actually apologized for insulting me. After I pointed out that you had insulted me as well. I off course didn't accept your insult and answered with another nice insult by me. If I reread your first post here again, maybe I can deduce the date, looking at what else is there, but not sure, can try if you want.
2) In the fairness votes. "sick and paranoiac", if you count my "how small minded" you are as an insult (which you do in your first post since it's red), I don't see how "sick and paranoiac" can not be an insult. Even if you don't count "how small minded you are" as an insult, sick and paranoiac is one.

Even if sometimes it was hard to stay calm (I admit), I always stayed calmed. I did not insult you back.

Maybe you stayed calm, can't judge that, but you did insult back. See no 1 as an example. There were others, the same day too. Overall much less insults than from me.

Honesty counts OL.

Is calling someone sick not insulting? Is calling someone paranoid (or paranoiac) not insulting?

1) Try. Now I remember it.

2) This fairness stuff is just ridiculous. I only used it as a mirror thing to you.
About that vote, it was the day you argued that calling me whiny, sick and hipocrite was not insulting but only real traits of my caracter. You were also always saying the things like if you knew how I think and behave.
Then, I called you sick and paranoaic, ironically. Based on what you just wrote that day : only real traits of caracter, nothing like an insult.

How can you sincerely try to show others I am guilty in something here ?
I have been insulting by you for weeks, non stop. And you still argue about imaginary insults and 1 fairness vote (that was ironic, not insulting) when you insulted me on purpose hundred of times and never stopped harassing me. How can you do that ? I really do not understand how.