Bringing the sprinter in position

[glasgowracing]

I think this is a good step in the right direction. Sprinting has become purely a lottery. I appreciate every try.

Maybe, in addition, we need do be able to set a captain for a race/stage. So only one spritner per team can sprint at 100%.
Real world sprint teams usually ride for one of their sprinters and bring that one into position.

Edit: Such a captain setting would also reduce the number of great sprinters in a race. It has become very unrealistic. In the real world there aren't 20-30 sprinters with a realistic shot at winning.

Maybe we also need some kind of more realistic sieving. Never in the real world one mountain rider in tempo will cause the pelOton to completely fall into pieces. This rider would just ride away and the pelOton would maybe slightly increase the tempo and chase him after the mountain. Such a new system would allow sprint teams to buy flat riders without any mountain skill and ride for less salary, which on the other hand then means we could make spritners more expensive.

[Buhmann]

Implemented for the old men races:
The best flat riders (energy has a little bit impact) give the sprint leader a bonus.
Furthermore the random is smaller than before.

[Robyklebt]

Just to clarify:

They have to help that "sprint leader", right? Not automatic, you have to put them on help?

[Buhmann]

Yes, you have to do this. But automatically the best 3 riders will help at the end.

[Eagle]

drei anmerkungen zu dem ganzen neuen:

1. Wetterumschwünge werden im Chat nicht mehr angezeigt, weis nicht ob das vorher auch schon so war.
2. Fahrer mit 0 Kraft und helfen für jmd liefern laut rennbericht einen negativen Bonus für den Sprinter, hoffe nur n anzeige fehler.
3. Wenn mehr als 3 fahrer dem Sprinter helfen wird willkürlich ausgewählt, wer die bonus bringenden fahrer sind.

Ansonsten finde ich das Helfen ganz nett, ist nur die Frage, ob es bei kleineren Gruppen vlt zu sehr mit einwirkt, wenn ein team dort viele Helfer hat.

[flockmastoR]

drei anmerkungen zu dem ganzen neuen:

1. Wetterumschwünge werden im Chat nicht mehr angezeigt, weis nicht ob das vorher auch schon so war.
2. Fahrer mit 0 Kraft und helfen für jmd liefern laut rennbericht einen negativen Bonus für den Sprinter, hoffe nur n anzeige fehler.
3. Wenn mehr als 3 fahrer dem Sprinter helfen wird willkürlich ausgewählt, wer die bonus bringenden fahrer sind.

Ansonsten finde ich das Helfen ganz nett, ist nur die Frage, ob es bei kleineren Gruppen vlt zu sehr mit einwirkt, wenn ein team dort viele Helfer hat.

zu 3) wurde diskutiert dass der Bonus bei kleineren Gruppen auch geringer wird

[Eagle]

drei anmerkungen zu dem ganzen neuen:

1. Wetterumschwünge werden im Chat nicht mehr angezeigt, weis nicht ob das vorher auch schon so war.
2. Fahrer mit 0 Kraft und helfen für jmd liefern laut rennbericht einen negativen Bonus für den Sprinter, hoffe nur n anzeige fehler.
3. Wenn mehr als 3 fahrer dem Sprinter helfen wird willkürlich ausgewählt, wer die bonus bringenden fahrer sind.

Ansonsten finde ich das Helfen ganz nett, ist nur die Frage, ob es bei kleineren Gruppen vlt zu sehr mit einwirkt, wenn ein team dort viele Helfer hat.

zu 3) wurde diskutiert dass der Bonus bei kleineren Gruppen auch geringer wird

es wäre 4. flocke und es scheint ja in unserem rennen nicht wirklich nen kleineren bonus gegeben zu haben, denn gestern hat nen 87er flachie mit ca 600 kraft 1,5bonus gebracht. eine libby fahrer mit ca gleich viel kraft und 80 flach hat 1,3 gebracht.

[flockmastoR]

drei anmerkungen zu dem ganzen neuen:

1. Wetterumschwünge werden im Chat nicht mehr angezeigt, weis nicht ob das vorher auch schon so war.
2. Fahrer mit 0 Kraft und helfen für jmd liefern laut rennbericht einen negativen Bonus für den Sprinter, hoffe nur n anzeige fehler.
3. Wenn mehr als 3 fahrer dem Sprinter helfen wird willkürlich ausgewählt, wer die bonus bringenden fahrer sind.

Ansonsten finde ich das Helfen ganz nett, ist nur die Frage, ob es bei kleineren Gruppen vlt zu sehr mit einwirkt, wenn ein team dort viele Helfer hat.

zu 3) wurde diskutiert dass der Bonus bei kleineren Gruppen auch geringer wird

es wäre 4. flocke und es scheint ja in unserem rennen nicht wirklich nen kleineren bonus gegeben zu haben, denn gestern hat nen 87er flachie mit ca 600 kraft 1,5bonus gebracht. eine libby fahrer mit ca gleich viel kraft und 80 flach hat 1,3 gebracht.

Habe ich ebenfalls beobachtet. Bei meinem Rennen gestern war die Klassikergruppe kaum größer als 10 und die Helfer brachten auch fast alle 1 oder mehr Bonus, egal ob die auch viel tempiert haben im Vorfeld (hab leider nicht mehr die genauen werte). Ist halt genau das eingetreten was ich befürchtet habe: In kleinen Gruppen geht mir das zu sehr als Vorteil für die Überteams ein (bei hügeligen Rennen)

[Eagle]

gut das wir im gleichen rennen waren

[Buhmann]

Bei 10 Mann Gruppen gibts einen realtiv großen Bonus? Sollte wenn da eigentlich nur ganz minimal sein. Muss ich mal anschauen.

[Robyklebt]

Talk english assholes

It's UNFAIR, nothing else, to speak german when you are absolutely able to say it in english. Eagle knows english well enough. Why the need to do the racist thing and leave the french etc out?
Assholes.

[superemre]

thanks roby,
please, you speak english .... the google translator is not able to translate the German correctly

[NoPikouze]

But we, normal people, are not supposed to understand what is going on anyway...

[flockmastoR]

if i talk english, buhmann doesnt get it most of the time

[Buhmann]

if i talk english, buhmann doesnt get it most of the time

This is not true...i only talked german because the question was german, too.

[ELITE TEAM]

I followed this thread and im sad, that im not long enough into this game to ride with you former riders races
And so i have a question,
what about beta testing races? ...
I mean some practice races to test new features or new implements?
My problem is sometimes, that i only can participate 1 race a day, but im so addicted to RSF that i would ride some more
So what about testing races that starts if 15 players join ... just an idea, that every team has to set rider types that are for all equal, that no big advantages and this races are only for testing some new features ...
Maps can be random either so that you can test it for hilly or flat races ...
Example:
from 9-10:30 15 addicted RSF players join this testing races --> 11h is start - then map is generated and all managers have to set their team (riderpool - for each equal (perhaps without name riders oder that you can chose for this race fantasy names))
Then race starts and all can test new features and can discuss differences to before or eventually bugs ...
race could have a 15 sec mintact or a 30 sec mintakt during the whole race - because its not so important to win - only to see how the new implements change the whole style of race.
It would be ok if only Div1-5 Team can participate this races, so that you have a "competent" jury that can evaluate the features objective ... and have a "normal" race without teamattacks or noobtempo etc

What about this idea?
Is such a bigger thing possible? Would be nice and not only for me to fill freetime

[Buhmann]

For some month we had track races, which start automatically if or more teams are inscripted. These races i want to reactivate.

Old men races for beta tests will be online sometimes, too.

But anyway: Wrong thread.

[ELITE TEAM]

Not at all - i want to ask for testing this new sprinting implements ...

[Pirkio]

hello, after 1 month i want to ask to you guys, what happend if a 92 is in the back of a 95 and try to follow him? if he is very very much back? He is not able to take the weel? and what happend if is the opposite? 92 in front 95 very far?

[Hunsrueck]

For sprint teams the current system is not satisfying. Random is to important and "parasite team" are to strong. A team without any flat rider (and then without possibility to make tempo for a sprint) has also big chances to win a race, although a real sprinter team with a good sprinter and good flat riders are in the peloton.
Of course, changing the sprint system totally would be really nice. But because this would cost too much time at the moment, i (with talking with a reals sprint team ) suggest the following small feature:

1. decrease the random

2. The best 2 or 3 helpers of your sprinter with the best flat skills bring the leader in position. Therefor he will get a bonus. So if your leader has 3 85er flat helpers, he will get an higher bonus as an sprinter with 3 70er flat riders of course.

Example in the log would be the following:

Sprinter A is bringing in position: Helper A, Helper B, Helper C
Sprinter B is bringing in position: Helper D, Helper E, Helper F
Sprinter C is bringing in position: Helper G, Helper H, Helper I
...
The the normal log like now. Internally the "bringing in position"-thing decides how high the bonus is.

So we have a little little position riding for the sprint. Internally it means, that flat riders give your leader a bonus for the sprint. Real sprinters will have bigger chances to win than now. And not every team can buy a sprinter and steal so many victories like now.

I hope it is clear (beacsue of my great english...).

Why this was not pursued with the flat value.
We had tested it running in some and it was the right approach.
At the moment the parasite teams are back in the beneficial and there are hardly any real sprintteams.

[team fl]

I completely agree with you Hunsrueck, expect one thing: There are many "real" sprint teams (you may call them teams with a sprinter / with sprinters), but not that many (competitive) teams specialised only on sprint anymore.

[Hunsrueck]

perhaps an answer mr buh?

[Hunsrueck]

For sprint teams the current system is not satisfying. Random is to important and "parasite team" are to strong. A team without any flat rider (and then without possibility to make tempo for a sprint) has also big chances to win a race, although a real sprinter team with a good sprinter and good flat riders are in the peloton.
Of course, changing the sprint system totally would be really nice. But because this would cost too much time at the moment, i (with talking with a reals sprint team ) suggest the following small feature:

1. decrease the random

2. The best 2 or 3 helpers of your sprinter with the best flat skills bring the leader in position. Therefor he will get a bonus. So if your leader has 3 85er flat helpers, he will get an higher bonus as an sprinter with 3 70er flat riders of course.

Example in the log would be the following:

Sprinter A is bringing in position: Helper A, Helper B, Helper C
Sprinter B is bringing in position: Helper D, Helper E, Helper F
Sprinter C is bringing in position: Helper G, Helper H, Helper I
...
The the normal log like now. Internally the "bringing in position"-thing decides how high the bonus is.

So we have a little little position riding for the sprint. Internally it means, that flat riders give your leader a bonus for the sprint. Real sprinters will have bigger chances to win than now. And not every team can buy a sprinter and steal so many victories like now.

I hope it is clear (beacsue of my great english...).

Why this was not pursued with the flat value.
We had tested it running in some and it was the right approach.
At the moment the parasite teams are back in the beneficial and there are hardly any real sprintteams.

UP

[IDF]

The problem isn't that.. it's just the behaviour from these parasite teams...

If they work hard for their sprinters early (= mean, they do the job well) , it's not really a big problem... but often they don't want to ride because they have weak riders...

Maybe, create a rule where we can have a third sprinter ( i mean > 85) after a number of riders (11? 12?) etc... i don't know.. But the level in sprint decreases really... where are real sprinter teams? Skullz, Brio ? They are fucked everytime because they don't have a second 89-90+ sprint to pull their leader...
This is the problem... community, behaviour, skills etc... about that.

ps : Huns , i don't understand what you meant in

" Sprinter A is bringing in position: Helper A, Helper B, Helper C
Sprinter B is bringing in position: Helper D, Helper E, Helper F
Sprinter C is bringing in position: Helper G, Helper H, Helper I"

3 helpers for each rider? impossible no?

[Pokemon Club]

Maybe, create a rule where we can have a third sprinter ( i mean > 85) after a number of riders (11? 12?) etc... i don't know..

Let's create a rule where we can't buy more than 3 67+ sprint. Plus adding a rule where we can't buy more than 3 67+ mountain riders, more than 3 77+ paves, more than 3 77+ TT !
And for the sprint, let's make it 1000/900/800/700/600/500/400/300/200/100/0, and change the balance flat/sprint 50/50 -> 45/55 -> 40/60 -> 35/65 -> 30/70 -> 25/75 -> 20/80 -> 15/85 -> 10/90 -> 5/95 -> 0/100 !
And to finish feel free to up Hiyori at 96 sprint !