October 2017

[luques]

http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/october2017.pdf

OCTOBER 2017

30 Sep 17 - 01 Oct 17 Tour of Almaty KAZ ME 2.1
01 Oct 17 Tour de Vendée FRA ME 1.1
01 Oct 17 Gran Premio Bruno Beghelli ITA ME 1.HC
01 Oct 17 Tour de l'Eurométropole BEL ME 1.HC
01 Oct 17 Tobago Cycling Classic TTO ME 1.2
03 Oct 17 Tre Valli Varesine ITA ME 1.HC
03 Oct 17 Binche - Chimay - Binche / Mémorial Frank Vandenbroucke BEL ME 1.1
03 Oct 17 Sparkassen Münsterland Giro GER ME 1.HC
05 Oct 17 Milano-Torino ITA ME 1.HC
05 Oct 17 Paris-Bourges FRA ME 1.1
07 Oct 17 Il Lombardia ITA ME 1.UWT
08 Oct 17 Paris - Tours Elite FRA ME 1.HC
08 Oct 17 Sun Hung Kai Properties Hong Kong Challenge HKG ME 1.1
10-17 Oct 17 Tour of Taihu Lake CHN ME 2.1
10-15 Oct 17 Presidential Cycling Tour of Turkey TUR ME 2.UWT
11 Oct 17 Famenne Ardenne Classic BEL ME 1.1
14 Oct 17 Tacx Pro Classic / Ronde van Zeeland NED ME 1.1
15 Oct 17 Memorial Rik Van Steenbergen BEL ME 1.1
15 Oct 17 Chrono des Nations FRA ME 1.1
17 Oct 17 Nationale Sluitingprijs - Putte - Kapellen BEL ME 1.1
17-21 Oct 17 Tour de Selangor MAS ME 2.2
19-24 Oct 17 Gree-Tour of Guangxi CHN ME 2.UWT
22 Oct 17 Japan Cup Cycle Road Race JPN ME 1.HC
23 Oct 17 - 01 Nov 17 Vuelta a Guatemala GUA ME 2.2
27 Oct 17 - 05 Nov 17 Tour du Faso BUR ME 2.2
28 Oct 17 - 05 Nov 17 Tour of Hainan CHN ME 2.HC

ONLINE, MUST BE DRAWED OR CHECKED(WHEN PROFILE STILL THE SAME)
NOT ONLINE
NEW VERSION DRAWED
AT WORK
DELETE OR POSTPONED
SAME TRACK AS 2016

Just a proposal of what to race, need to complete with hours and categories.

[bogis]

where we can see the profiles of races?

[Coroncina2]

I would suggest
Sunday 01-ott Beghelli
Monday 02-ott Eurométropole
Tuesday 03-ott Tre Valli
Wednesday04-ott Münsterland
Thursday 05-ott Milano-Torino
Friday 06-ott Vendée
Saturday 07-ott Lombardia
Sunday 08-ott Paris - Tours
Monday 09-ott Binche
Tuesday 10-ott Paris-Bourges
Tuesday 10/17-ott Taihu Lake
Tuesday 10/15-ott Turkey
Wednesday11-ott Ardenne
Thursday 12-ott Hong Kong
Friday 13-ott Tobago
Saturday 14-ott Tacx
Sunday 15-ott Chrono des Nations // Van Steenbergen
Monday 16-ott
Tuesday 17-ott Sluitingprijs - Putte - Kapellen
Wednesday18/24-ott Guangxi
Wednesday18/24-ott Iran
Thursday 19-ott
Friday 20-ott
Saturday 21-ott
Sunday 22-ott Japan Cup
Monday 23-ott
Tuesday 24-ott
Wednesday25-ott
Thursday 26-ott
Friday 27-ott
Saturday 28-ott/05-nov Hainan
Sunday 29-ott
Monday 30-ott
Tuesday 31-ott

With all 2.2 tour will be too many races and just choose one is not impartial.
I think not putting racing in parallel with the most important classics could increase the competitiveness of these.
Alternatively you can move the Iran 2.1 tour in the first week to give the teams the chance to choose.

[Robyklebt]

Agree with Coroncina on Malaysia, that's not really needed. I'd say no Malaysia.

1. October: Tour of Almaty finishing, so just one 1 day race better. Of the 3 important ones Beghelli is the one that is most different from the others, so I'd put that one here.
2. October: The 2 remaining races from the first. IMO try to move races around as little as possible, so 2 of the 3 that in reality are on the first here. But 2, not one even later. Then just offer it 3 times each. 10-15-18-20-22-24 or so for the times. Maybe, probably, likely almost sure some people in the morning and afternoon won't be able the one they want, but we can't have everything.
3. October: No Malaysia, and either again 2 races (but 3 Valli being the most important one 3-3 is unfair) or just 3 Valli. Probably I'm for just 3 Valli
4. October: If just 3 Valli, then here Münsterland and Binche. Both moved from the 3rd
5. October: Milano Torino
6. October: paris Bourges, moved from the 5th history, prestige, so a 3-3 split no good, 4-2 not convincing, more editions with our participation number not ideal. 5-3? If Luques thinks that could work, I'd be for it.
7. October: Lombardia. If, we have it restricted to D1-5 or 6 or what it was, which we should, we could have Tobago in parallel for D5/6-7 (An overlap at D5 IMO possible, D1-5 for Lombardia, D5-7 Tobago. Tobago moved from October first, category 1 of course, not 2 as it was last year.
8 October: Paris-Tours, category 5,

Other one day races later in the month in the procyclingstats calendar like they are in the PDF.



Tours: Agree with Coroncina on Malaysia, not so much on other stuff.
Reality: Iran from the 8th-13th. Turkey 10-15th. Taihu is ridden in November, makes no sense moving it forward to this spot when there is a "pseudo WT" tour AND another tour that is equally unimportant to Taihu.
Here I'd say: a) Iran 8-13 but restricted to Div 3-7 and 3 editions. Turkey normal, 5 editions, but with Iran there could be only 4 too. b) Move Iran one day back so not to overlap Paris Tours. With the 3-7 restriction the damage to PT manageble, but since restrictions usually are highly unpopular around here, ok, why not start from the ninth.
Actually I don't really think Iran is needed, just dilutes the groups, but ok, if we like the race so much why not have it, not the end of the world either. But not one week later to have it parallel with Guangxi.
19-24th then Guangxi. Coroncina adds Iran, see above. Absolutely no need for an "artificial" parallel tour here. Just leave Guangxi alone.

28-5th November than Hainan. OK.
04th Nov -12.th Nov Taihu lake... again, I don't really think we need, it, but if we do, then certainly not in October. If we have it, let's have it when it really is ridden. Overlaps with Hainan? So be it.

Other things from Coroncina's proposal:

Wednesday11-ott Ardenne

What is this, don't know it, if it is something, ok. Real date or moved from some other time?

Thursday 12-ott Hong Kong

Is in Luques post too... reality 8th October, no reason to move it that far back, if it is something, then the 9th fits perfectly. Or the 8th for D7 only... I don't think it is anything we need to ride. Not sure where Luques found the UCI classification (not on procyclingstats, not checking the UCI site itself, that takes me too long to load and find anything useful usually) http://www.active.com/cycling/sun-hung- ... 7-35310496
Too me looks like nothing, they say professionals there, but the race takes 30 minutes? To me looks like a criterium. Oh, editing for the 50st time, maybe the race is the one from 2.10-5, so 2 hours 50. Still looks suspiciously like a criterium to me.

Sunday 15-ott Chrono des Nations // Van Steenbergen

Good find on Chrono des Nations! Seems to be on the 15th, but somehow not displayed at procyclingstats... grrrr. Not trustworthy then, need another easy site. The Van Steenbergen thing though hasn't been raced since 2012 and can't find anything saying it will be raced. If it will, put it in of course.

The criteriums in Japan that somebody mentioned in the Winter calendar discussion. (Not sure when they were) The one in Saitama and another one I think this year. It's criteriums, we can add them at category 1, since I think Luques liked criteriums, why not... not really necessary either though.

[Coroncina2]

I'll explain how I make this calendar.
To find races I look on http://www.uci.ch/road/calendar/ (should be the official web site of main organization of cycling and I hope is reliable) category Man Elite choose singol race till cat 1.1 and tour till 2.1
If singol races are the same day I postpone the one with lower category ( tring to let the most important race the real day ), if they have same category (ex: Beghelli and Eurometrolope) postpone one of the 2.
So here is the explanation of the calendar until 10-oct.
About history and prestige of Bourges I thought the same about some Italian races. Just follow UCI category to make our decision is the best way to make an impartial choice without giving any reason to anyone. Anyway I don't care to postpone Paris - Brouges (1.1) just 1 day before Milano Torino (1.HC) instead of Vendeé (1.1).
Japan is an 1.HC like Beghelli, Eurométropole, Tre Valli, Münsterland, Milano-Torino and Paris-Tour, because I do not believe in history and prestige, (in my opinion just last 2 should be top classic) so we should give them same top category.

About tours
Only Turkey (10-ott to 15-ott) and Guangxi (19-ott to 24-ott) are UWT and we should play them before of others.
Others of 2.1 are Taihu Lake (in UCI web site and it take place from 10-ott to 17-ott) and Iran (8-ott to 13-ott).
Like this there will be 3 tour's stages + singol tace from 10-ott to 13-ott. Could be better postpone Taihu Lake somewhen else before 14-ott.
Others month we did tour cat 2.1 in parallel wih others (Pologne, Utah, Burgos 1-aug to 4-aug and Binke, Norway Portugal 10-aug to 13 aug).

Anyway I think we should take a shared decision about tours, perhaps by majority, and follow it during all season.
For ex:
1) all tours till cat 2.1 without moving anyone even in parallel and lower cat with less editions;
2) tours till cat 2.HC
3) move any tour but which and why
4) choose any lower category tour but which and why
I find the full calendar 2018 on UCI web site. I winther we could talk about these basic principles and fix all real calendar (fantasy races will fill in the inevitable holes of single races)

[Robyklebt]

About 1 day races still think my proposal the best.

Tours, ok, shouldn't trust procyclingstats for the calendar anymore, all wrong....
And the UCI has upgraded its website, last time I checked (which probably was early 2017) you had to click 90 times then it took 17 minutes to load to arrive where you wanted, or something like that. Now it's a normal usable website, good.
So forget anything I said about Tours!

New stage races comments:

Still see no point for Malaysia
Parallel to Turkey: Both Iran 8-13 and Taihu 10-17. IMO neither is needed, but since others like to have more tours, ok. Then the logical choice is Taihu. No overlap with Paris Tours. So yes, 10-17 Taihu but IMO with less editions, if Turkey gets 5 (4 enough with something in parallel?) then 3 for Taihu, max. 2... ok, then it's almost not worth designing it. (btw the Taihuwebsite isn't loading for me, link at the UCI says http://www.touroftaihu.com/)

Iran then later? Here's where I disagree. Not necessary to ride that. Some sort of "fairness", if other 2.1 are ridden it should be ridden too. It has to be what fits with the game too, between Taihu and Iran the one I would be more likely to ride personally is clearly Iran (but 97% chance I wouldn't ride that either) but Taihu just is more compatible with the game this year. No overlap with Paris Tours. So Taihu. Then adding Iran one week later IMO is not necessary or good.. It isn't "real" anymore if it's not very close to the real date. Like Tour de l'Ain this year, didn't ride it, which is sad. But with Binckbank (horrible name) as WT, then Portugal for the portuguese users (which needs to be taken into account too, even at 2.2 (which I think it was some years?) we should have the Volta, since we have a decent number of portuguese players) then Arctic and Ain all 4 parallel one too many. For reasons I don't really know, wasn't paying that much attention, Arctic in, Ain out. Ok. But riding Ain later didn't make sense either. Riding it now in October for example... it just wouldn't feel real anymore. Ride it when it's ridden in reality, and if not, let it be. (If we really need it, let's make it 2 editions each for Iran and Taihu and overlap with Turkey and PT)

So my proposal:
30-01 Almaty (somebody go design it!)
10-15 Turkey, 10-17 Taihu
19-24 Guangxi
28-05 Hainan (somewhere parallel the fantasy SAchsenpavé (if Libby is around and designing)
I expect you'd want Tour of Fuzhou in November then, no problem, it fits, if designed etc. all ok.
08-12 Nov: Tour of Fuzhou instead of the planned fantasy tour at that time.


As for the framework, get to work on it, we'll have lot of disagreements on the categories anyway... promises to be fun. And not sure I understand you points 1-5 completely.

[Team Kazi Blocks]

So my proposal:
30-01 Almaty (somebody go design it!)
10-15 Turkey, 10-17 Taihu
19-24 Guangxi
28-05 Hainan (somewhere parallel the fantasy SAchsenpavé (if Libby is around and designing)
I expect you'd want Tour of Fuzhou in November then, no problem, it fits, if designed etc. all ok.
08-12 Nov: Tour of Fuzhou instead of the planned fantasy tour at that time.

Almaty is ready. Some strange locations for mountain prizes given on the site. If the other tours are sure we ride them, I'll try to draw some of them.

[Team Kazi Blocks]

Vendée

[luques]

Will update it today, so basically no malaysia, yes Almaty. Iran I would keep as alternative to the Chinese 2.1 tour seen that it seems the website isn't available. The rest stays as it is for Tours.

Single races more or less we are there, just to see number of editions and categories.

[Robyklebt]

Almaty: Same times as Emilia on 30/09 (Almaty starts then) Probably not wanted? Alternative times?
Piemonte: Not ridden this year

[luques]

As for the tours we are playing this month:

For Turkey there is all the track on the website pretty well explained on the GMaps it seems http://www.tourofturkey.org.tr/EN/icerik/stages-8

Tour of Taihu is a mess (In case I would use Tour of Iran that at least has some infos http://www.tourofiran.ir/en/event/Stages ).

Gree-Tour of Guangxi as well a big problem, even if profiles have been released on the 20th September. Let me know if someone is going to draw or can give more info.

[Coroncina2]

guangxi17_01

[Robyklebt]

A few things:
Categories: Münsterland and Eurometropole up to 1.HC for the UCI. maybe cat 2 is a little low? Up to 3?

Number of riders: Not really consistent with the rest of the year, which for one day races was 8 riders up to cat 3 and 9 riders from cat 4 on.

Times: Participation for the afternoon lately has been pretty horrible. A short check showed me that it wasn't much better for the early evening. The morning on the other hand has had a fantastic rebound, good. Late evening doing well, but has less races, increase them and would do worse too. Conclusion: Turkey-Taihu: 19-17 for the early afternoon, but only Taihu 21 for the main evening doesn't seem perfect. Make it 2 for the main evening (either 20-21 or 21-22)
And Hainan-Sachsen 16-14 seems much for the weak afternoon too, but don't have a good sensible alternative to recommend there.

[Team Kazi Blocks]

i'll do turkey

[Pokemon Club]

Need to open October luques

[luques]

Need to open October luques

[Robyklebt]

Donkey doing Tour de l'Eurometropole

[Robyklebt]

[Robyklebt]

Found a track for münsterland, so will do that too.

[Pokemon Club]

Crochu 3%
Beau Soleil 5%
L'Epan 4%
Mintact km 225

[Pokemon Club]

Lombardia this year really similar than Lombardia 2015. Just 5km more flat this year (247 km in 017)

[Pokemon Club]

[Team Kazi Blocks]

Turkey:

[Pokemon Club]

Tomorrow 6 races but nothing for 18-19-20 ?

[Robyklebt]

As you can see.
Do you actually have a point or are you just trying to show how obsessed you are with me and try to get revenge for your hurt ego?