Giro 2010, Vlads Time 15h

[gaurain rx]

Said I want to answer today.

The attack was not really has planned... But ok, connection to slow, Had not the time to do it as I want. Quintana should have gone with Javaux. I was not so amazed of Psychos tempo, though somebody "unconcerned" would ride. But ok, don't really worked has planned, was 30 seconds too short... And 1 min more would have been perfect. Maybe with Quintana. But ok, then maybe in the back they ride different, I can't know it.

And knew too that Belgian would "sieb" early... i felt it. She was scared by Branco, wanted to make lot of time. Deduced she'll sieb early and so I must attack at least to spare Helpers.

Gk fight. Well, I don't really understand why the hell Belgian has not done tempo. The best she can I think. In any case, she'd lost time today, the best she can do was to put Caramelli in tempo the last 8 km. It didn't cost much more energy and was slightly the safest way to go uphill. Roby stupid too, but ok, he had chances to follow. Personally, race was already over. Know, Aldeia clearly back in front, hard to beat him. And I begin to understand Ticos Strength, I think... Clearly really good but there are flaws in it... And I hope I can profite from them one day, I hope so.

And I had one thing, difficult to deal about what to do for red and what to do for stage/General classement... Ah and surely my last big tour, It doesn't really make me fun!

Meine Angreif war nicht wie ich mochte... Connection nicht sehr gut war aber es klappt. Mochte Quintana mit. Habe kein problem mit Psycho's tempo, aber ja, weiss nicht wenn es sinvoll war. Und ich erwartete diese Tempo. Aber ja, Angreif war nicht so als geplann, war 30 Sekunden nicht genug, vielleicht eine Minute. Vielleicht besser mit Quintana, Aber wissen wir nie.

Und Ich Weiss Belgian siebte fruh... Ich Fuhle es. Sie hat Angst von branco. Sie mochtet viel Zeit zurucknehmen. Ich musste dann Helfers sparen fur Ende.

Gk war. Ich verstee wircklich nicht warum Belgian nicht Tempo im Berg gemacht hat. Das war am besten fur Sie. Roby, nicht clever genug auch, aber er hat Chansen mit Ticos zu gehen. Meine "Race" da war schon geendet.

[Robyklebt]

No no, you said you wanted to answer on monday, not sunday! Ha!

Anyway.... Belgian scared by Branco... me after yesterday a bit too. So I would have helped with Thomas, and did. just too late. Should have helped at that one 0 too, but well, there the connection was just too bad, simply had not enough time to think. And Ticos wants me to think...

And no, Roby couldn't really hope to follow Aldeia.. .he actually started too, but there was no reason for hope, so very bad mistake.

Your planned attack yesterday: Your main problem: The rest day. Ticos could have killed himself to get you, something he couldn't do on other days. Me, I would have helped with Wassissi... then if he increases the tempo and leaves me with 4 riders.. Ok, now you do it yourself. Cover the mountains with Berlogea first, Guggisberg later, nothing more. Think would have been difficult for you though, just the wrong day. Days before rest days... everybody has energy to spare.

Red/GC... see the problem...

GTs no fun.. ok, I have fun, it's more long term than short term. Ours now is very very controlled.. .IMO a few reasons: 1) Good sprinter teams, good classic teams, that both want their wins and work for them. 2)Kaju and mountain, with his mountain fetish he really blocked more serious attempts, you just can't be sure he will continue after the mountain. If you are there with 2 he'll demand your zieher in before the mountain as well.. .but why if you leave him the points, and never can be sure he'll continue? 3) Ticos, but Recien and Belgian once too, blocking escapes with controllers that are there to kill the escape.. .the old Ticos tactic, being used in reaction by the 2 as well. It's effective and nothing wrong with it... but as usual with Ticos in the race it gets overdone. But he is much better than a year ago... These 3 points result in not really great racing and must be very frustrating for teams that are here to attack, teams that basically hope to win their stage in an escape. US Radler or so. OK, him eating every day while escaping and not being there doesn't help either...So that is what we are missing here, attacks that have success. And it might continue til the end.. Ticos will be covering on the 3 stages with mountains, so most likely blocking the escape and most likely getting Klebt into tempo, Gaurain will want the sprint stage, others too... so.. not really great, but, at least on 2 days an escape should have gone through I think.. Montalcino and L'Aquila.. but...

Deutsch später, muss weg.

[Psychopath]

Gaurain war mir völlig egal. der war halt einfach dazwischen. Zwischen der Führungsgruppe und mir.

Warum ich Tempo gefahren bin: Ich hatte einen Plan und der sah vor, früh anzugreifen. Meine Überlegung war, dass mich eine 65er Berggruppe eventuell ausbremsen würde, wenn ich in die hinein attackieren würde.

Ob die Gedanken richtig sind oder vollkommener Blödsinn kann ich nicht beurteilen - aber das waren meine Überlegungen. Mich interessiert dabei nicht, ob andere Teams in irgendeiner Weise davon profitieren oder andere sauer deswegen sind - ich bin da vollkommen egoistisch bei sowas
Ich kämpfe still und leise mit BayernPower um das weiße Trikot. Und auch wenn ich mit knapp 50 Sekunden hinter ihm liege und meine Chancen gering sind, kämpfe ich darum!

Wie lange geht der Giro nun schon? Mindestens 14 Tage. Habe nicht so genau mitgezählt. Das war das erste Mal, das ich im Tempo war - und schon reicht es wieder für einen langen Beitrag und erzürnte Worte.

Ich bin kein Favo - sagt ihr. Das stimmt aber gar nicht. Ich bin, zusammen mit BayernPower, Favorit auf Weiß. Warum also darf ich das nicht in Anspruch nehmen?

Die Argumente von Roby: ich verstehe sie - kenne es aber eigentlich nicht anders, als das immer irgendjemand Tempo macht - und mir dann, wenn ich mal in einer Ausreißergruppe bin, meistens das Leben schwer macht.

Zu gestern aber auch noch einmal ein paar Hinweise. Nicht als Entschuldigung gedacht (für was auch?!), sondern noch als zusätzliche Erklärung:
Ich arbeite meist während der Rennen (als Selbstständiger muss man ja ständig selbst arbeiten). Somit bekomme ich nicht immer mit, wer alles so im Tempo und wie lange schon gefahren ist. Und unglücklicherweise hatte ich mich gestern auch noch bei den Hügeln verzählt! Ich dachte, dass der drittletzte schon der vorletzte sei - und hatte tatsächlich bereits meine Attacke viel zu früh eingestellt. Erst durch die teils "gehässigen" Kommentare bemerkte ich meinen Fehler und das ich nicht weit genug nach unten gescrollt hatte

Am Ende habe ich dann aber die Taktik komplett geändert und habe mich ein wenig nach vorn ziehen lassen. Das klappte zwar auch nicht so, wie ich mir das vorstellte, aber dadurch wurde dann in der Tat mein Tempo überflüssig.
Hätte aber auch ganz anders sein können...

Also: geht nicht immer davon aus, dass sich andere nichts dabei denken. Ich bin zwar mit meinen knapp 140 Rennen und der Tatsache, dass ich das jetzige Team aus Jugendfahrern für mich noch ziemlich neu habe, noch relativ weit am Anfang meiner RSF-Karriere, aber dennoch lange genug dabei, um nicht völlig überflüssiges zusammen zufahren. Aber es ist sicherlich nicht korrekt, dass ich euch meine taktischen Überlegungen während des Rennens erzähle oder gar ausdiskutiere?!
Will gar nicht wissen, wie viele da in dieser Phase sich an mich gehenkt haben. Vorsichtshalber ...



Die taktische Abteilung der Anstalt

[gaurain rx]

Au jeu de la mauvaise foi, je pense qu'il est en train de gagner. Comme je dis, rien à fouttre qu'il ait roulé. Maintenant, qu'il justifie ça d'une manière différente chaque fois qu'il répond, ça m'énerve. Au départ, il disait que c'était parce que je lui avais mis un -1 en fair play. Puis, l'histoire du maillot blanc (ben pourquoi il roule qu'à ce moment là et pas avant tiens donc)... Surtout qu'il se stressait parce que je prenais du temps (lire le chat, c'est important)! Qu'il roule, c'est une chose... Qu'il se foutte de la gueule du monde, s'en est une autre!

Il est complêtement dingue ce gars!

[Robyklebt]

Non il n'a jamais dit ça comme raison de rouler. Il a dit que hier on lui met -1 parce qu'il ne roule pas, aujourd'hui il roule et tout le monde l'engueule aussi. Il n'a jamais dit que c'était du tempo contre toi a cause du minus 1, hier il n'a pas vraiment donné de raison du tout. blanc, retard trop grand, sans explication plus précise. Et il n'aime pas du tout quand on lui dit comment rouler et réagi a chaque fois. Et je sais que c'était pas toi qui lui a dit de ne pas rouler, c'était des autres comme moi qui l'ont fait.. (si je me souviens bien, tu as même dit que son tempo n'est pas un problème pour toi)

En plus pas trop gentil de commenter a français si tu sais que il ne parle pas l'anglais vraiment bien... Mais il essaye, tu te souviens des Andes, il a quand même fait un effort pour parler l'anglais aussi de temps en tempos. mais.... c'est pas superbe, il comprend un peu, s'aide avec les traducteur online et écrit moins bien qu'il comprend. Toi avec les langues RSF t'as pas de problème, moi non plus, mais il y a quand même des gens qui ne parlent pas vraiment une autre langue.. c'est plutôt niveau Aywaille en Allemand ou Roby en hollandais, peut-être je comprend un peu de tempos en temps, mais pas grand chose, que du Gaurain en allemand.

Tu fais la tactique Z là... parler d'un autre dans une langue qu'il ne comprend pas même si tu serais plus que capable de parler dans une langue qu'il comprend un peu (anglais) ou très bien (allemand naturellement). Et je ne vois pas de contradiction entre ses commentaire du chat hier et ses commentaire ici. Tactique pas brillante, oui.. mais il fait l'éffort d'expliquer, ce que les vrai spécialiste du tempo pour rien ne font pas vraiment...

[gaurain rx]

Non il n'a jamais dit ça comme raison de rouler. Il a dit que hier on lui met -1 parce qu'il ne roule pas, aujourd'hui il roule et tout le monde l'engueule aussi. Il n'a jamais dit que c'était du tempo contre toi a cause du minus 1, hier il n'a pas vraiment donné de raison du tout. blanc, retard trop grand, sans explication plus précise. Et il n'aime pas du tout quand on lui dit comment rouler et réagi a chaque fois. Et je sais que c'était pas toi qui lui a dit de ne pas rouler, c'était des autres comme moi qui l'ont fait.. (si je me souviens bien, tu as même dit que son tempo n'est pas un problème pour toi)

En plus pas trop gentil de commenter a français si tu sais que il ne parle pas l'anglais vraiment bien... Mais il essaye, tu te souviens des Andes, il a quand même fait un effort pour parler l'anglais aussi de temps en tempos. mais.... c'est pas superbe, il comprend un peu, s'aide avec les traducteur online et écrit moins bien qu'il comprend. Toi avec les langues RSF t'as pas de problème, moi non plus, mais il y a quand même des gens qui ne parlent pas vraiment une autre langue.. c'est plutôt niveau Aywaille en Allemand ou Roby en hollandais, peut-être je comprend un peu de tempos en temps, mais pas grand chose, que du Gaurain en allemand.

Tu fais la tactique Z là... parler d'un autre dans une langue qu'il ne comprend pas même si tu serais plus que capable de parler dans une langue qu'il comprend un peu (anglais) ou très bien (allemand naturellement). Et je ne vois pas de contradiction entre ses commentaire du chat hier et ses commentaire ici. Tactique pas brillante, oui.. mais il fait l'éffort d'expliquer, ce que les vrai spécialiste du tempo pour rien ne font pas vraiment...

J'ai mal compris alors pour hier, je meaculpe. Comme quoi, je ne comprends pas tout l'allemand qu'on me dit! Pourquoi j'ai parlé français, parce que j'avais envie, tout simplement. Pas spécialement envie que tout le monde me comprenne aussi. mais merci pour la Roby explication éclairante. Je supprime mon poste maintenant vu qu'il n'a aucune valeur. Ou bien je le laisse tout en précisant bien que dans ces conditions d'incompréhension de ma part, ce que j'ai dit dans mon précédent poste n'a pas lieu d'être!

Et ok, de toute façon, la raison pour laquelle il a roulé, je m'en fous. Comme j'ai déjà dit hier, il peut rouler, c'est son droit et je n'ai aucun problème avec ça.

[Aixteam]

Funny thread here . We have every language

[VC Aywaille]

Funny thread here . We have every language

Oufti!



One language more now: http://projetbabel.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1935

[team fl]

damn giro! no luck and nothing. fuck. the only thing is a big red number on the team fl bank account. shit. not even the miraculous hannes bübübübüchel could win a stage till now. this giro seems jinxed for me.

well, i am scared that tomorrow and the day after will be ridden very hard. so, easy going for team fl, hoping that no rider needs to be sold after the giro. new situation, new goals.

[Robyklebt]

Dürr a bit unlucky too it seems.. thought he had late form maybe, because first he was horrible.. but then he won the sprint twice, too bad both times there were others in front...

In the end

2 Prébois
1 Müssiggang
1 Pozdrava
1 Eiterolloid

0 Dürr.

Actually would have preferred FL to Satzte today... Satzte already has 2 wins, FL 0... but both always worked a lot for the sprint, both ok. The bad guy of course is Prébois who won twice.. .so all his fault. Ha.

But was a nice sprint group as well, good cooperation. 2009 was maybe cooler because we really had to fight sometimes, this time it seemed much easier overall, so 09 was more exciting in retrospect, during the race, well not always... still pissed of at Racesteam for not riding because he needed to save his 6x sprinter so that not all would go at 50, what an idiot.. big fucking help if we don't manage to get Falkenbier you moron. But ok, a bit easier and more "boring" is ok too in the end.

[gaurain rx]

Well, we've done it good (the sprinter teams)!! And the victory are well shared. A pity we haven't reach the sprint one day... So Fl would have his victory too! And red jersey for Gaurain if all goes good the next 2 days. 25 points gap against Branco, biggest fear is to be out of the race but ok, Prebois will have 2 helpers each day specially dedicated to him... And this red jersey really means money for Gaurain rx : I will keep it 13 days + the prime at the end = 13*30.000 + 21*10.000 = 390.000 + 210.000 = 600.000 ... Ok, it covers only my Giro inscription for 4 days but it is a begin

Now, Gk fight. It can be interesting! Ticos as favo with a big team, Roby with his plans (which never never occurs as he expects), Belgian team with his unexpected (or unprevisible) move... Can't give some things good. And the stage chaser will take their chance to I think...Wizards, Fl, Kaju, Gaurain, Recien, Toxi (in the fight for green with Ticos)! So, it can be explosive... Or simply boring

[Robyklebt]

43" still, only 12" yesterday, but ok, better 12" than 0"
In front another win for the Lizards, Wesley Lichtenkiesler somehow always gets beaten... anyway, not good that the escape even got to the end, they should have just waited or something., let Gamov win. Much nicer.. Today the big question is: how much under reg is Aldeia starting? 50? 100? Don't think more... 40 km downhill in the beginning, mmhh...

[Lizard]

1. Aldeia will come up to 1000 energy.
2. The Gamov-Buonnaroti double is just disappointing this race. Many options, you should´ve made double classement riding from the first moment, Buonnaroti also 60+ reg. Why not always attacking? Okay, Terminillo not that much possible maybe .. but all in all was a weak Giro for a 89-86 double.

[Lizard]

Great attack by Roby... I was very sceptic first, but then Ticos makes a mistake that saves Gamov´s victory. I think Gamov will do it tomorrow, a bit lucky, but in the end of course equal deserved as Ticos.

[Robyklebt]

Pff, critic for Roby here, only saw it now...GRRRRRRRR

2 leaders? Double attacks? Disappointing Giro? The Giro is 21 days long, 2 rest days, makes 23... my strategy was good. brillant. What I did of it not really, many small mistakes, here and there, but the overall strategy was the right one.

Problem 1) Buonarroti was out in Montalcino. lost too much. Otherwise he can be an option. But unlikely.
Had worse form than Ticos until the Mortirolostage. Buonarroti Mortirolo, Gamov Gavia was the plan. Ok, being very very stupid turned out to be Buonarroti Gavia and Gamov tomorrow.. at least I hope.. better check again, not that in the end I have Buonarroti tomorrow and Gamov on monday.... No, seems to be ok.

Gameplan was clear before the Giro started, even clearer after the prologue:

8 km
Caramelli
Aldeia 26"
Gamov 42"

With same form and energy it "should" be

Caramelli
Aldeia 20"
Gamov 40"

Aldeia the clear loser, can be risk, but more likely it's just the form. Aldeia around Zoncolan, me and Caramelli at the end. Opponents?
1) Aldeia.

The rest? If we don't pay attention Recien maybe maybe, Caramelli maybe, Puzanov maybe, others maybe, but in the end all I need to care about is Aldeia. And mostly did.

Where can I gain time? Montalcino? Normally no, he has better form, my advantage in pavé is gone. And it showed, first sieb we were exactly at the same place. Then could have won a bit ok, if I was less stupid, but nothing to do with a big attack, just thinking would have been enough. Terminillo maybe.. unlikely, he has better form, he basically is a 89 and me 87 (form 85 that day) but if he follows me and doesn't know my form I go out, he continues.. maybe... he didn't follow me.. but the form was obvious again. It took me AGES to get to Heinhardt and Puzanov. Aldeia just came flying once he attacked. Clear again, Heinhardt around Zoncolan form, Aldeia too, Caramelli in the back weak again, late form. Why did I help Ticos to ride that day? The off chance that he didn't realize the form thing, was 95% sure he knew the form, but maybe not... some of his comments after the Zoncolan stage lead me to believe that maybe he really didn't know... so ride with him, so he doesn't know I have much worse form than him.
Then after that where can I attack? L'Aquila? Ticos has a VERY strong team for exactly those stages, nothing to do. Wait, follow, don't lose time. Right strategy.
Zoncolan? A possiblity. But.. the climbs before the Zoncolan were very short.. there his helpers will not be dropped far, even if I attack with the 2, all I'll get is 30" on the bottom of the Zoncolan, (and that's optimistic) and a weakened leader that will lose that in no time at all. Problem nr 2. Next day is a rest day.. everybody has double reg. Ticos can kill everybody. Not worth it. Ride defensively, keep Berlo and Thomas fit to protect myself from possible Ticosattacks and wait.
The win the Giro in the last 3 days.
HERE my team is MUCH stronger than Ticos team. I have 89+86 mountain who can spent 1240 energy combined. Both complete riders with downhill. He has 45 energy with 89, less downhill, less flat, and a helper with no downhill and no reg. Then ok, behind that his army of 70-77, but my job to make sure that they play no role in those days. Wait for my 2 days, my 2 leaders topform, first advantage, second even more important advantage, I have recuparation, he doesn't. Where can I even attack? Zoncolan, yes, otherwise? Maybe Peio Terme, the possiblity was there too.

Of course turned all out slightly differently. I thought I would need 2'30" in these 2 days. He won less in the TTT than I thought. Then Terminillo ok, not good by Roby, but gained 4" back to L'Aquila, ok. Then he gifted me 1'08" to Cesenatico. Roby MUCH closer than he ever thought he would be. The result.. huge mistake on the Zoncolan where I gifted him 30" back. Probably wouldn't have made that stupid mistake if I had 1' more to Ticos, here I just got cocky and dreamed, wanted to much.. Roby=idiot. So just wait. Then the Plan de Corones, costs a lot of energy, more than I thought.. next day a chance.. which I didn't take. Thought about it a long time, but.. no. First, we had for the first time in the Giro a group that could come through. I say let it go through, especially since I was in it with small chances. Second, I suspected that Ticos was back at 1000, he then said he wasn't ok, could have tried. Third: Form... thought it should be 97-97... mmh, why only 96.. ooookay, I put it in one day too late... that's how I found out about my great formplanning...Fourth, maybe I get the win, maybe not, what I would have done is: One km with Gamov to drop Bonilla, then ride with Buonarroti, Downhill Buonarroti, flat Uzielli, slightly up Buonarroti. And hope the Bonilla-Belgians-Thomas-8000 Wizards group doesn't come back. Problems: I can't hold Belgian and Gaurain. They wouldn't have helped, yes yes, after the stage Gaurain said bah, should have ridden for a climbers finish. The problem is Gaurain isn't stupid. 8-7-6 he has to assume I beat him. So why should he help? On the other hand he had one rider in front too, so he just waits and then attacks with Javaux (or whoever it was) and Heinhardt, Buonarroti by then dead and Uzielli, by then dead wouldn't have taken enough time back for the 8-7-6 finish for Gamov. And if Gaurain goes, others maybe follow him, Sneijder Caramelli (with his own helper from the escape) So in the end what do I get? I risk getting the same 4" I finally did. And not knowing that Aldeia didn't get back 1000 before, even losing time to him seemed possible. Or even if Heinhardt doesn't attack, the Guggisbergs come back.. not sure I end up before Aldeia. He rode that very conservative, he knew at maximum he loses 5".. if it can be 20" with Boni.. he rides it differently. No, in that moment an ok decision, could have tried, sure, but not trying ok too. So, thanks to the TTT and the present from Ticos I was much closer than I hoped, gave some time back as my own present... but still with all the chances to win it. Reg, reg, reg, reg. And Ticos only 2 helpers with downhill. I thought I could take back 2'30" in those 2 days. still think that is possible, if Ticos has a bigger advantage he would ride differently too, he might have given me a bit more room. he might have used Arias or Bonilla more yesterday, the other today. Like that he only had 1'30" to give me,reacts harder.. Now it looks open, we both left a lot of time lying on the road actually, stupid 4" from the intermediate sprint for Aldeia today... was planned to get 6" for Gamov actually, Buonrroti losing, Gamov green tempo.. but well...

Anyway, think the strategy, a) concentrate on Aldeia, don't completley ignore the rest, but almost b) wait for Mortirolo-Gavia was the right thing to do. The way I did it... ok, that at times less than brillant. But the strategy? The correct one IMO. Unless you can show me where I would have had a good option for an attack without losing 1' as a result there..

[NoPikouze]

You think too much

Focusing on aldeia was ok. But why shouldn't he focus only on you ? Then the others have a chance... it's a risk but ok, you won that psychological battle
Last 2 days were good, ok maybe a few hesitating kilometers but you cannot be perfect.

But I guess gamov+ivan could have also allowed you to play other tactics earlier. More offensive. You prefer to be smart than spectacular. And not carrying the race. That's a good option. It's just that ivan didnt do as much as he seemed able to.

The baddest thing is 40" loss on zoncolan by being unable to follow aldeia (which you knew was going to happen)... That could very well make the difference tomorrow.
Ok there are others mistakes where you won/lost time as well, but this is the main one which I am aware of

Dunno if i'm making sense or not at all, never mind


One thing i have question about, is belgian's team. Leloup or Kroller is useless no ?
Better for her to get an old 88 climber on the market

[Robyklebt]

The problem is: Where should I have attacked earlier, or where should I have used Buonarroti? Middle mountain stages, my team just too weak compared to that of Ticos. Thomas, very strong, but no downhill, but ok, very strong, Berlogea from 67 to 70 during the Giro then..... Uzielli. Ticos can control me too easily with his armada. Plus he will have the help of Recien and Belgian early in the race. Zoncolan, typical stage where I make an attack and lose, I almost can't see a situation where I don't lose more time by attacking then by just waiting and riding up. Ok... what I did in the end was.. mmh, don't want to talk about it. But that wasn't the only mistake by far, there were others, less costly, but a few seconds here, a few seconds there. For example today, mmh, don't want to talk about that either Or Terminillo, mmh, let's not talk about that Or to Montalcino... mmhh, let's talk about something else... I won the Cima Coppi! A success! Cool

Why he shouldn't focus on me? Because he's Ticos! Ticos: 17 GT wins in a row or something... I focus on him, I beat him, I win, easy. Roby: 800 GTs, twice third (Vuelta) Focusing on me is a much less safe option than focusing on Ticos. Beating Ticos: Winning the GT. Beating Roby: Like beating Moinard in the TdF...

[Lizard]

Yes, especially Zoncolan was a horror... I couldn´t believe you throw away (how much was it? 40 sec?) so much time by just doing nothing, being a dreamer. This really was the point where I thought that Aldeia will win the Giro. And okay, there are two aspects of tactics and strategy you might know Roby. The one thing which obviously worked out for you is a good plan, play your superior skills where they have to be played, but the other is to compensate weaknesses and see where you can use strengths that don´t even exist on the surface. First thing you might´ve ridden strong, but now getting cocky after this debacle at Zoncolan? No, not deserved by the Robyists. Deserved to win, maybe equal with Ticos (who this year rode a very very strong Giro I have to say!). Ticos on the other side no strong mountain helper, but compensated this weakness for a very very long time with Aldeia you have to say. And he played his own strengths at two mountain stages where the Robyists were >asleep<. Today Ticos with a mistake himself, too late the secblock. Happens very very rarely in a Ticos-field, but if I have to make a classement who made most out of his chances in the classement I doubt I´d put Robyklebt on first place. Even though strong I accept.
But maybe this is the point where Ticos today showed sportsmanship. Accepting defeat, no big deal for him, and Roby who curses 364 days a year what he all does wrong finally makes his masterplan work and can´t accept be critized for once. Oh c´mon, you´re better than that.

And furthermore - critizicing me for my riding last year on the Giro?!?! Maybe I registered for RSF 2006, but I really began to play January 09 with Wollfinger and Königsbauer in my team. That´s where I started making my first huge experiences with the big teams, by that time even a big fan of the Robyist. And then first Grand Tour for me, I even wear the Maglia Rosa 7 days with Königsbauer and now you piss me off with riding P2 then? Was just a huge success then for me. P2 riding never happened again in my team, I learned. Ah, I leave it to that and hope for my own 89 climber for Giro 11 and then let´s see if I´m able to defeat the defending champion

All in all, nice Giro 2011, my team really really weak for what my chances where, luckily winning 3 stages. In the end should be P6 for Sneijder I hope, and this is what I liked in the end. Even though I didn´t manage to get Sneijder in a breakaway which was planned, on the mountain tops I rode a good race with him. Next year looks like I´ll be taking something like a ~88-58-75-50-57 to the Giro. Hope to get such a rider^^

[Robyklebt]

Ticos congratulating me? I congratulated Ticos on the CG win too. Why no praise for me.. I want to be praised too!

And I know Zoncolan was just idiotic... I can accept that criticism but well, let's talk about something else...
What I don't really see is where I should have used Buonarroti more, and that's your criticism, the original one for a double with 86-89 with lots of reg, a weak Giro. .. which I simply don't see, and as that can't accept something if I don't see it or if nobody tells me where? Peio Terme, maybe an option, yes. Was confident enough to enough time in my 2 stages. At least I came close to it, maybe enough, maybe not...

First thing you might´ve ridden strong, but now getting cocky after this debacle at Zoncolan? No, not deserved by the Robyists.

Didn't get this... So if I win it won't be deserved? Partly I agree, partly not. Overall Ticos rode in a un-Ticos way. Not putting somebody in the escape on the Mortirolostage... Borges doesn't count.. not typical Ticos. Uzielli was going be there anyway, don't understand why Ticos didn't put Zorro or Fonseca there. Same thing on Peio Terme, why doesn't he cover himself? Monte Grappa, saving Bonilla behind the group, saved by Belgian herself finally, who did the right thing in repeatedly attacking to weaken Ticos, but covered him by riding a few seconds behind with Bonilla in tow.. if she goes out, Ticos the next day has a huge problem. Ticos left me more openings than I thought he would, so no, I don't think he rode a VERY strong Giro, I don't think he was as concentrated as he usually is. Overall he is the better manager than me, never doubted that, Ticos or Roby? Ticos is better, no doubt.

2 stages asleep? I say one... Zoncolan. Terminillo? With 85 form against 92? The time loss, more than ok, was fairly happy with that, if it works perfectly I can even win, if it doesn't and he goes earlier, I lose more the error there was not to attack Heinhardt for second place and 4" bonusseconds, that's it... If that means being asleep...

But maybe this is the point where Ticos today showed sportsmanship. Accepting defeat, no big deal for him, and Roby who curses 364 days a year what he all does wrong finally makes his masterplan work and can´t accept be critized for once.

So accepting defeat for me is not enough??? Ticos gets to praised for accepting "defeat" (24 hours in advance when he certainly hasn't lost yet???) and I don't get that, pff. I know exactly I have only myself to blame if I don't win it... even the 4" I gave to Ticos today by sleeping in Santa Caterina maybe could be enough. (Edith: and if I only blame myself that doesn't mean that I ignore that Ticos did a lot right, just saying that I don't blame bad luck, tempo by others ( Verunga today ok, in the last km for example) or one of the usual excuses for my defeat) Criticize me for that as much as you want, no problem. What I don't 'accept' (in the sense of agree with) is that I should have used Buonarroti and Gamov in a different way. Where? How? Tell me that, and maybe yes, then I see it. Just a blanket "weak Giro" doesn't really do it.

You riding for P2 in 09? Was just there to piss you off anyway It worked. Both ways, you getting second place and me pissing you off

Today Ticos with a mistake himself, too late the secblock.

Secblock... a 87 against an 89.. he doesn't block me. Does he get me back? Very likley yes, but not sure this time. In one km? Not sure, could be 2, could be 3. Could be more. He probably had around 40 energy less than me, maybe even more. 960 at the bottom of the Forcola di Livigno, then I had only one helper for a short while, but recover better in downhill and lose less in the flat... means still 40 points difference at least IMO. I go. 91 (almost) climber with 40 more energy against a 89 (bit more) climber.. Even after the attack, the difference in energy is not that huge in his advantage, since I had at least 40 more. And energy level was at under 900 already there if I remember correctly.. don't think it ever went over 900 again. 8xx. So the attack costs less as well... Even if I get only 2"... he is not 100% sure to actually get me back, Very probably yes.. next km 7, then 6, 6 perfect for me, then it got steeper again.. I think he would have needed at least 3 Km to get me back.. 3 km that hurt him energywise, a lot. What if he doesn't have me after 3 km? stays at 2, up to 3, down to 2... does he continue? Does he wait for Bonilla? A working secblock actually could not have worked for him. Could have worked as well, would have been interesting to see too. But I knew I was either going on that km or the next one.. checked for his secblock as long as I could, and went.. If he hits it right, I have no chance to get Gamov and Buonarroti out, correct, even when my connection is good it's just not that good...

But basically you say I worked a weak Giro for 18 days and didn't use Buonarroti and Gamov properly. Just tell me how to use them properly If it makes sense, good, I'll use it to win against you next year.

[gaurain rx]

Well. I will share with you my opinion.

We have seen the last 2 days and during all the Giro who were the strongest by far : Ticos and Roby. Tactically one step over the others (gk speaking)... Belgian, Toxi, me were tactically under them. Recien was great but Branco a bit weak for the last days. Wiz (ok Wiz had Sneijder), Fl, Kaju, Thoronto, Satze with no gk rider for podium, Psycho and Bayern busy with their white fight and Pleidelac, Us radler and Kitty were not really to see I during it.

My fav from the begin where Gamov and Aldeia. Ticos shows his clear view and experience during the Tour. I think he has riden as he has planned during 19 days (ok, forget the fault in the end of stage 13). Only today, things didn't go as he expected. His team was well built and scared a lot of others. i though after Zoncolan that he would win easilly. But ok, I was wrong... Roby move on the last days were great.

I was a bit disappointed about Roby not riding offensiv in the begin but now, I understand it. Roby plays his chance when he can... and he did it great. Today and yesterday were 2 "beispiel" of Roby strenght. Uses perfect his reg advantage with Gamov... I will just never understand why he didn't block on Zoncolan... But I think Roby can't ride defensiv, he can wait the good moment but he maybe not able (or he don't like it) to close the door ( as we say in football to speak about a team which put all his player in defense to keep the score good (fermer la barraque comme on dit en français)).

The real fight was against these 2, it's clear. Belgian was a threat during a certain time but falls down fast yesterday (I actually think she was not more dangerous since Zoncolan). Great TTT, Good Montecalcino, Terminillo ok. Tried something in l'Aquila... Maybe strange but ok, this move was not so senseless I think, was only senseless cause of the shape of the field, cause Ticos for example won't ride when is it not necessary, when the risk to be counter then his strong. Zoncolan big mistake. She was the one who was sure not to follow the other 2 with so big %age, she must block there! She will loose time but blocking was the safest way to ride. Corones was great, Mortirolo stage, don't really understand how she looses so much... But ok, it was already done. She tried to use his 4 80 hillguys but I think it doesn't bring so much to her... or she didn't use them well. Maybe a 88 hillguy to help Caramelli was better than the 3 others!

Toxicity was out of the gk race after Montecalcino. He never really plays for it, seems not really concerned about it. Takes the hill jersey, that's a good compensation.

Gaurain was at the image of his great Mortirolo attack Rides on the contrary he sould, makes a lot of mistake cause podium was really reachabble for me. Topform was in Plan de Corones. Maybe not the better choice. but ok, was a choice to not choose TTT was not good, I started there really slow... looses time on Montecalino (42 secs).. My fault I think, asked the sitter to privilegiate Maréchal. Terminillo great... Takes time back there. Win in l'Aquila, I was back in the race there, I still thought I had my chance... I had taken back the Montecalcino loss approximatively. But then, nothing good... I don't attack during the Ticos fault on stage 13... loose 1'07 on Belgian/Roby there. Ok, I was playing full of sprint but following Gamov could have been a good idea... Ethan not really fit there but it would have been enough to follow I think. I don't like riding like this but to do good results on big Tour, I must do such things. Monte Grappa, same mistake, not following... but it costs nothing luckilly. Zoncolan, I acted stupid... Ok, my attack with helpers to save them was pretty good... Wanted to attack with Ethan in the second hill too but it was maybe a luck that I can't... Then, I block at the end 2 km and then Stop... should have attacked there... I knew I can't follow Gamov/Aldeia. I loose a lot there.. A lot stupid time. Plan de Corones, I had energy problems... i didn't go full speed at the... i should have when I see how it goes the next day. it wouldn't have been bad. Mortirolo stage, the worse attack I've ever done. I think I've learned a lot this day. The idea was not so bad but how I've done it was just pitifull. Bruned 2 guys for Nothing... Killed Ethan for the next day and for nothing. I played on my weaknesses... Attack soon but no good reg... Was stupid! Today was ok... Must only follow and I did good ... But that's not enough, Gaurain not happy about his gk performance. I must calm down my offensiv spirit for my next big tour... But maybe I can't, that's not the way I like to ride. More and more offensiv in my head... So maybe no more big tour.. or with no gk leader anyway

And I don't forget Recien who was really really strong during 2 weeks... The last hill stages were only to hard for Branco but he did really well, sometimes working alone all the stages to protect his jersey. I just didn't really like his move of today, trying to put Prebois under time limit. I don't really share this way of riding.

[Robyklebt]

You're not the only one that will never understand why I didn't ride on the Zoncolan..... a mystery. Well actually, just remember now, had a sitter that day, yes, that's it, ZL was my sittter!!!! Bad ZL.

The minute from Ticos when he was offline. Actually agree, not the nicest way to win time.. But as I said at the time, I try to adjust to the opponents. If it happened the other way around, I think Ticos would take advantage of it too. I have no problem doing the same with him. If it was a bug, something else, ok.. but in this situation where he made the mistake, realized it, had to go off and didn't correct a mistake he knew was there... and it's Ticos.... I take advantage of it. Had it been Mathe for example, I would have let Berlogea wait and ridden in the group. If it's Elb I attack and yell at the sprinters to stop tempo immediately so that he loses 2'.

Toxicity and Montalcino, yes.. out. You not completely, don't think NoLife made mistakes there, you just have less pavé if I remember correctly, nothing to do. Plus Ticos rode a perfect race for Aldeia that day... I was on his wheel and saw it first hand.. if you were behind him for 1" even once.. .finished basically, you don't get back, perfect strategy of waiting, pulling Aldeia, riding with Aldeia, let the next one drop back and pull Aldeia. Stress this pavé... fortunately I had Aldeia. Then... Your big problem was the reg with Heinhardt I think. More reg, more is possible. But you got red and 3 stages... pah.. Me 1 stage and nothing. Ok, the cima Coppi. And now 907 +51TT vs 918 vs 57,x TT... 28" not completely flat..

[Bear]

What a fascinating last stage. TTs can be exciting as well. GW roby and all the others who won something.

[Luna]

Wow! Finally Roby gets his Giro win. Congratulations!

[olmania]

Congratulations Roby !
But, you won with 1", I won with 1'

[Buhmann]

Wow. Congratulation Roby. Hard for Ticos. I pity you. But must be very exciting