Tour de France (the second most important GT) 16h

[Robyklebt]

The ape will very likely start here... Small chances for 13h, some chances that Queen Ape has weird plans for July, she might have, but we'll see.

The team basically is already fix:

1 Yesid Ramirez: Everybodies dream rider. Mountain star, airplane lover, which gave him the nickname "el avion" in Colombia. Or maybe that came from his downhill skills.. but unless colombian airlines have a poor safety record this seems unlikely. Anyway, he's the leader, the boss, the star, the hope and idol of a whole team. Top 5 would kind of be nice. At least in a stage...
2 Gong Bang: Superb 60-80, helper for the star, helper for the awesome sprinters, occasional escape artist, occasional chinese folk song singer, occasional friend for a depressed team mate.
3 Nicolas Legrand: The awesome winner of Trier-Aachen. The toprider from Lille and Thun. A hero. He might even get the nr 1 instead of Ramirez after all. He's french too, plus a star, on and off the bike, so we'll think about it.
4 Titus Olteanu Fantastic 60-80, same thing as Gong, only better. And no singing for him.
5 Daiken Sekiguchi: The future classic star, the 3 man in the mountains, the leader in the middle mountain. And definetly forbidden to sing, japanese in general, and he unfortunately fits the generalization, have a horrible taste in music.
6 Yaya Toure: The burkinabé has one mission. Show everybody that Petit Singe was right in hiring him. Money, money, money! He actually plans to win something too, but we're kind of doubtful about that.
7 Michele Trapani: The young Italian hope, there to train for the Giro 13, he will assist Yesid in some downhill maybe. Or not if he's dropped before.
8 Zenzo Yamada: Needs to be there for Daiken. Can't forbid him to listen to music in the hotel room, so for 3 weeks... need to give him a japanese roommate. Everybody else would go crazy. And a rotation would just create fights and deals to get out of the rotation. Zenzo of course will be useful in other ways too, with his flat power he will insure the sprint for our talented sprinters
9 Markku Yrjönpoika: Winning sprinter for 1,192 millions! Ha. He's there to sprint. Green! Whatever, just sprint.

Cost: Way to high.. ah ok ok, I go and check..464k, mmh, that's actually ok, can even hope not to make minus, only 90k to win per day!

The 2 reserve riders just in case that one of the 9 others gets injured or pisses the ape off before the start:

Thaddäus Häfeli: Raw power from Schaffhausen, nr 3 sprinter in the team, future pavé star, wants to get used to french roads... we told him no pavé in france this year, but well... He could share the room with Daiken too actually, he's from Schaffhausen, he's just thankful to be out of there, he does everything we ask him to do. Actually he seems really nice, well ok, we don't care about him at all, but if we would I think we'd like him.
Wei Dehuai: Has a better voice than Gong, clearly, best voice of all our chinese so far. But kind of old now. Not an almost 60-80 anymore, he's a 50-80, but we always forget that and treat him as an almost 60-80, so misuse him... to avoid confusion by the DS and the ape, better to leave him home.

[Lizard]

I think I'm gonna ride the tour, don't know if 16h or morning. Maybe I'm here, then with classics and sprinter

[bergwerk cycling]

Eigentlich ich!

Oh no ... Osin OShea sollte heute ins Team geholt werden, (gestern fehlten noch 34tsd auf dem Konto) um mit ihm als Leader doch noch die TDF zu fahren.
Heute morgen hat er sich leider für ein anderes Team entschieden.

Bitter, denn seit 2 Tagen hatte man sich mit dem Gedanken in Frankreich an den Start zu gehen, angefreundet.
Aber mit dem jetzigen Team macht das keinen Sinn ohne echten Bergfahrer oder doch?

Manno, ich ärger mich sooooo

[flockmastoR]

Hmhmhmhhmmhmhmhmhmhmhhmhmhmhmhmmhmhmhmh looks interessting this TDF just the 100km TT are way too much. EM really things about starting here too. If we start with our 3 leaders: Mandelbrojt, Gauß and Gröbner, than its quit open maybe with

4)Loschmidt
5)Avogadro
6)Letho
7)Tananahaakna
8)Inlander
9)Hardwood
this would be the ultra mountainious team. but it will look a bit more like:


4)Avogadro
5)Letho
6)Tananahaakna
7)Schönflies
8)Maasikas
9)Joker (or we buy a 92 sprinter with a bit more reg for the Tour, dont like controlling the flatstages alone for 3 weeks. Depends on who will ride here too)

salary around 530-550k i think

[Robyklebt]

BW, wie im Chat gesagt... warum nicht ein Team um Jagger? Klar, gegen Hubers wird er's sehr schwer haben. Sozusagen unmöglich wohl. Andere Bergfahrer, kann auch schwer werden... andere Fahrweise als sonst bei GTs für dich, aber für irgendwas hast ja diesen Jagger auch. Und die Helfer für ihn hättest ja, Hill, Bourne, Gibb... (Stewart auch noch, evtl zu teuer, weiss nicht)

[bergwerk cycling]

Bin hin und hergerissen, aber ich glaube, das tue ich mir nicht wirklich an.
Mit 74 Berg sähe das schon besser aus, so aber können fast alle Klassiker nach einem einfachen Sieb gegen ihn fahren.
Das wird so wohl nix mit der TDF, leider.

[Robyklebt]

Pflödsinn..

Jagger leader
Hill Bergzieher.
Bourne, Jagger, Gibb classic pullers
Richards sprinter (einige Etappen vielleicht sogar Favorit)
Gibb, Ure, Ure: Flachfahrer, Sprinthelfer

Ok, 547k ist teuer.

Chancen. GK Sieg riesig. Scheint nur der Affe als Gegner da zu sein Und Ramirez sollte schlagbar sein....
Ok, wenn Hubers antreten: Chancenlos. Aber Podest, möglich, Top 5 auch. Ohne Hubers, kommt sehr auf die Art der Berg-gegner an. Schlussendlich ist das aber egal, einfach mal versuchen und sehen was rauskommt.

Nur 71, bei jedem Hügel können Klassiker gegen ihn fahren... nicht ganz. Hügeletappen, da hast mit den 3 anderen Kerlen gute Zieher, notfalls kannst einen sogar für Kohle vorne lassen erstmal und nur mit 2 ziehen. Ja, kann Etappen geben wo du dann ein paar Sekunden verlierst... aber so viele auch nciht. Wird kaum einer x Hügel vor dem Ziel versuchen wollen dich zu distanzieren, so viele Klassikerteams mit GK Fahrer, die also Interesse hätten dich zu distanzieren gibt's wohl kaum. Ab und zu am letzten.
Bergetappen: Da reichen dann Klassiker nicht um dich wegzuhalten, Hill. Ok, allagenische Monsterklassiker ja, aber vielleicht ist dir auch schon aufgefallen dass das RSF Durchschnittsteam nicht aus solchen besteht. Ok, ist einer mit einem 78-83 da... kann blöd gehen. Aber der muss dann auch noch Interesse haben, d.h. einen GK Fahrer... sonst wird der eher versuchen mit dem Monster Etappen zu holen als Bergwerks zu distanzieren.

Natürlich viel Arbeit zu erwarten, aber warum nicht mal schauen? Klar, ist teuer, notfalls einen der 3 Klassiker zu Hause lassen und einen Palmer oder Banks mitnehmen, Palmer für Stewart wäre 513k, immer noch teuer.. .aber du wirst auch automatisch etwas Kohle machen, aus mysteriösen Gründen müssen ja deine alle Zeitfahren können wie die wilden, da holst ja schon mal Platz 1-5 oder so Und sowieso, Kohle, machst halt Minus, bis auf 2011 habe ich bei der Tour noch jedes Jahr gross minus gemacht... letztes Jahr das erste Mal überhaupt an einer GT plus glaube ich.... und auf dem Podest war ich auch nur einmal in meinen 11? 12? GTs.
Und nein, ausser es kommt wirklich niemand mehr, Sieg erwarten kannst nicht, dafür ist Jagger wohl zu schwach. Aber 100 km ZF, auf einen 88 Bergfahrer mit 50 ZF holst da 15', die muss er erstmal holen. Der 88er mit 60ZF muss immer noch 10', schon einfacher, aber wenn du kämpfst muss der 88-60 das auch... Hubers oder bessere Leupolds... ja, fast unmöglich... aber egal, einfach mal versuchen. Ich meine der Affe startet auch mit einem grausamen Team... Bergfahrer 85, kommt nicht runter und ZF 51... Sprinter 82... Klassiker unter 70, weiss nicht mal wie ich eine Etappe gewinnen soll (wenn wir zu zweit sind schon, dann dominiert Ramirez die Berge!)... ok, ich starte dafür auch nicht so enorm teuer natürlich. Aber eben, ist nur RSF Geld, und auch mit meiner knappen Million pro Monat überlebe ich ja, mal ein Monat minus würde auch BW überleben.

[HeidfeldFanclub]

Hmm,

I'll be here, only this time of the day almost playable. A GT with old Borussae BW would be nice - why speaking about mountain rider, this tour is Huber style. Not many steep mountain finishes at all. Jagger could be nice.

Roby could also be fun, a lot to discuss Flocke, would be also cool.

But yet, noone of you subscribed - thought I'm in the wrong thread or subscribed in wrong, but no, everythings ok. We habe ABC, Tdot and Escartinos at the moment. Sounds cool.

So, here is my way to expansive team which is chanceless if a Huber is in. But guess the team is great, so less than 600k is ok. And I don't care, who needs money.

I'm proud to present my international TDF team 2012:

1. The Baron, former Dr., Theodor von und zu Guttenberg (GER): 17 stages and 3 (trivial) tour wins in his Palmaras. In high cat races he was always a disappointment by now. Maybe TDF will be turning point? Don't think so, but we will see.
2. Javier Figueroa (CHL): Theo needed a helper for the mountains in this TDF profil, he got the one which was affordable.
3. Romain Mantheou (FRA): Joined the team in his old days, but is a realiable classic rider and helper, Won 2 Giro stages and finished on podium in Turkey.
4. Andrey Tychonoff (RUS): He trains and trains and trains... Now he is really of use. Rode a good Giro and won 2 stages and overall in Turkey.
5. Jetse Bold (NED): Another 70+ classic rider who mostly has to carry the water for those which are stronger in the mountains.
6. Padma Shamser (NEP): The young Nepali with the iron lounge sometimes is a bit lazy in training. Nevertheless an universal weapon with one Giro stage in his palmares.
7. Josepf Kalilu (GHA): Helper, Fighter, Man from World
8. Deepak Giri (NEP): He came as a big talent and ended - well, as a reliable helper and attacker.
9. Wilma Wackernagel (AUT): Wilma is the girl for everything in this team - attacks, carrying water, closing gaps.

So, looking forward to see you all in Belgium....

[Robyklebt]

None suscribed.. there's still a race to be won today, you know...

[exocds]

EXOCDS will start here, for the first GT of the team.

The team will go for Manic even if his chances are low. We might try to catch a stage with Dejan Milankovic in order to have at least one palmares line of this wonderful tour, the most important of all obviously.

Here is the lineup :

Nikola Manic : the absolute leader walking in the steps of his old brother, he will try to fight for final win.
Zoran Savic : the mountain helper, to fight against all these big mountainers team, he will have a lot of work to do to keep Manic in a good position.
Dejan Milankovic : the best classik of the team, with a good possibility to win a stage with his high potential of sprint, he will be there to help Manic too of course.
Mladen Marjanovic : A young classik, helper for average mountain or for the beginning of big mountain stages.
Aleksander Danilovic : Mladen's best friend he will have the same job, they might have some possibilities to escape, it will depend on the mood of the manager and of the team captain... which are basically always crapy... we will see, maybe the beautiful french roads (means french and tourist girls standing along the road) will help them to be happy.
Andrej Stojanovic : the beast of the team, a lot of power if he can pass some mountains, here to push the team in average mountain, and to do his best for his leader.
Damir Petkovic : the team captain, a lot of experience, here to protect the leader, to watch him after the races.
Bojan Petkovic : brother's captain will manage the flat parts when needed.
Nenad Karlovic : also here for flat parts, and secretly to find a french girl, he will probably be siebed very early in the mountain in order to find an appropriate one...

Expensive team but this is the best event of the year.

[superemre]

Expensive team but this is the best event of the year.

mmm.. read the title

[exocds]

I might change the title but i will not do that to roby

[Robyklebt]

Pah, I could change it back eaaasily. Plus delete you from the forum and everything, ha

[HeidfeldFanclub]

Manic on the line... Nice. And Yericho.

[HeidfeldFanclub]

Roby could also be fun, a lot to discuss

Hmm, Samu is also here - maybe more to read than to discuss myself...

[Robyklebt]

D1 2 teams
D2 3 Teams
D3 4 Teams.

Bah.

GC: Will be interesting, something like a 5 way fight: Pardo+Guttenberg (count as one, they become 2 later) with Figueroa as helper, Stanne 86 with 58 TT, Diamantis 85-67, Christiantoko 76-79, Manic 73-82. The strongest individually would probably be Diamantis. But: 35 reg and no helper... makes it very difficult .On the other hand he can profit from everybody a bit. the 80-82 helpers of Christiantoko and Manic if the other climbers attack from far (and Diamantis really can't follow if the next day is another mountain...), the climbers when they sieb to get time from Manic and Christiantoko. Maybe will be enough? We'll see.

Sprint:

- AUsomething 94 sprint, 83+81 flat not much reg.. ui., Plus... he seems to be a guy who is off a lot.
-Tdot with 93 and an ok, but not really good team. Early guy for tempo there, many of them actually, 86 for late there, but only 82 and 80 after that. Sadly he has the best team for a sprint here...
-Samurais: 93 sprint, and in a way the perfect team for collaboration with Tdot. He doesn't have anybody to block the end, but has something for all the rest.. like when a 75 isn't enough anymore, he has some 80-83
- escartinos: 92 sprint, then 82 and 81 flat.. reg would be there. nothing else
- portiolo: 92 with 85 and 81 flat, a reg guy somewhere, not much more.

If those 5 manage to collaborate.. they will have the sprints IMO. Yes, 85+86 to block the end is not perfect, but they can kind of hope to get help by 3 87 in the end. Edewecht and Bergwerk with 85 sprint, but 59 resp 63 mountain.. .so those too might, might, have interest in green. Which the flat sprinters after all haven't, if Leso really doesn't adapt the intermediates. If he does, ok, the flat sprinters are back in the race. in some stages those 2 sprinters can hope to drop the complete flat ones.. and get a sprint between them (let Markku join!) But for green, they really would need to score at flat flat stages too, otherwise green IMO goes to Milankovic or Brattsveen (Edewecht too, hmm) We'll see, first how those five collaborate, then if they get help. I actually have my doubts about the collaboration, but who knows.

Other jersey rather boring, somebody will think the polka dot jersey is cool and get it. White escartinos or Samurai.
Classic riders: Not that many, but too many for my weak ones...

[bergwerk cycling]

Thats really what i hope ... somewhere between the hill and the timespecialist and profit a bit from both .-)
I think topfavo here is Christiantoko with 76-79 ... normaly he get it, but his team is like mine not perfekt for the leader.

The sprinterteams really not have the best flatriders in there teams ... only a good cooperation could help there to get the 4-5 sprints.

[flockmastoR]

hm you really bought that Diamantis?

[Robyklebt]

Veeeeery strange first stage.... I think it will turn out to aweird TdF...

Big group at km 1.. .EXOCDS, yellow and IMO clear stage favorite in it. Everybody ok with letting him go it seemed.. ok. Thought chances for the group like that were minimal.. Portiolo with his climber, for red didn't make it easier either. Big advantage, then Exo had to start riding in the back anyway, had too, pressure to keep riding and portiolo. In front rider change, of course Exo doesn't help, he would be stupid, his rider almost can't win in front, no sprint, mountain not perfect either, but mostly no sprint, while in the back he has the stage favorite nr 1. He continues in the back, until Samurais takes over for reasons that will remain a mystery even to himself probably... his usual farmer trick and riding red... in front a 2 attacks from theChosenOne, Exocds on him... then first Alex, then Portiolo and the Chosen one go, a bit later escartinos... so Exocds on me now, bah, he can follow me on -6, race over for both... I wasn't going to catch the ones in front with him on the wheel, especially because he could have had the stage win fairly easily (or the likely stage win) if he had just ridden normally in the back, starting at 1' with his weakest rider instead of at 7'. Sure, then the group in front works better... but not that well either, too big differences in skills and not really sensible to carry Ottavo, Portiolos climber to the finish. Why try it the Ticos way if there is no need? Noooo, Olteanu will not ride to catch the others (would have been easy I think), let the 4 in front go and that's the way it is. Will try another day, fear with not much more success. So the 4 in front get through. Alex dropped by an escartinos attack, I actually thought he would be able to follow theChosenONe in the 6 too, the ChosenOne was riding a lot of red.... when it really wasn't necessary anymore, but finally escartinos couldn't. Stage win theChosenOne, red portiolo, yellow escartinos. Cool result, all deserved, but strange strange riding along the way. Tomorrow.. sprint stage.. portiolo already killed one of his 2 guys, escartinos the same... although with 65 reg he probably will be kind of useable... Tdot and Samurais though should be more or less fine.. we'll see. OOOOOOOOOOOOO, who knows if the guy will be online enough.
Strange stage, strange...

[HeidfeldFanclub]

@Roby: Agree with your opinion concerning cg. Diamantis is also favo for me beside Yericho, cause he could really profit the most from me and Edewecht. But, will we pull him often and long? We will see, but maybe bw can/will also pull us a bit...

Sorry for today, was at a lake with fam, bad mobile umts transmission, and horrible to play. So, no offline attacks roby, cause I was on. Only wrong wheels, cause either bw and ede came on so late, i couldnt change anymore

[Robyklebt]

First sprint, a kind of difficult birth though. Plus Markku didn't win, don't understand that. Grrr.
Escape in the end came closer to the finish than I thought, but on the other hand there was fire power that wasn't used too. If the advantage had been bigger, BW (rightly) probably would have added a rider again too. I was kind of starting to hope that then they go green to long in the back, but Exocds first attack killed that hope... from then on red in the back... a bit longer at green, we stay green too... mmmhh...
Sprint cooperation though certainly wasn't brillant. OK, 94+93 offline didn't help, but they need to talk to each other a bit more.. and be a bit more confident. Looked like they were too scared at times almost.. laaaaaaaaaate start.. then riding against a 88 in the back, how just let that guy come back, he doesn't bother you much. Final then they waited almost too long to put in the strong guys, plus had some on following. Just try, it worked after all, could work again, but not today of course:)
Green fight: Sprinters vs Hill sprinters vs classics, still open IMO. Hill sprinters (and Yrjönpoika who is kind of in the middle, grrr) have the advantage that with 85 (82,grr) they can go for more intermediates... they have much less to lose they are only outsiders for the stage and even with less energy shouldn't fall back much further in the sprint. + hill guys as well, there are some stages where the sprinters could fall back, while BW and Ede (let Markku join!) stay. Then the classics, mostly Milankovic and Brattsveen, they for sure will be there without sprinters sometimes... Score more regularly than the sprinters, question is how much they lose on the sprinters until then.

[Robyklebt]

What an embarrassing TdF stage... not as shitty as the real TdF where crashes decide everything, but close... actually crashes in a way would almost be better than this.

Escape, Racer and BW in front, nobody wanted to chase, sprinters mostly offline again, so through, good attack... of course missed it... but I didn't really have anybody to send either... Legrand the fittest, but not really fit plus too close to the yellow, Gong dead, Olteanu the ideal man actually too dead too... didn't know with which one I wanted to jump after an attack.. .but then missed the km when the attack went anyway ....

"Sprinters".. laughable and embarrasing.
2 online: Tdot, who doesn't help sprints (if he wants them, so far he seemed interested in green and sprint, started out riding and fighting well for both) by not talking, asking other sprinters to help early would be sensible, but not taking.... and Portiolo who has nominally the best sprinter around actually, 54-60 with 94... but seems not to understand that with nobody to block (since he managed to lose his 85 flat guy while because of a strange fight for red) he would need to do some early work. And he had no big reason to be scared of the 6 in the middle either. TDot more, but not that much either actually, with BW deadish, me deadish, and it's easy to know both, plus Ede off... Sprint was possible, but they decided not too, as usual. escartinos if on doesn't do better either btw. Samurais probably would, but he's off, AUDOOO is off too of course, just on for a sprint occasionally. Saved by BW, Excods, Ede and very little Ape (with some last km block helps ones) until now, today they had no saviour and lost... and that will continue like this I think. Tdot not riding early is even understandeble, sprint possible, but he has the GC to think about too. Without the little help escartinos can give, early tempo... not ideal. Ask around... Mbak and Tdot and EDE with late escapes ahve chances too.. .but no. Ok, there I really see no problem today, let the group through. The problem is more that it has been a bit strange the whole time so far.

But is that a reason for complete chaos?
Yes, because if the sprinters are an embarrassment to RSF, so are the GC teams.
MONEY riding at its worst. The funny thing will be: In the mountain, if team 'a' pulls favorite 'c' it will be a big big outcry from the same teams, they already started.. hope nobody will pull this one and this one.
Ehm... let's say I pull BW up with Ramirez and Trapani pulls EXOCDS... mmh... all ok, it would be the exact same of riding all of the GC teams are doing right now. For money. Don't pull him, he loses more time, he doesn't get a group ahead, bla bla.... me by pulling them get a group ahead and MORE MONEY. No intention of pulling anybody actually, but I'm sure you'll start complaining about x things from tomorrow on (not necessarily what I do, but could happen as well) even if it's EXACTLY the same thing that you're doing in stages like today. MONEY, for an extra 5k or so. And if it's ok now, it will be ok then! Don't forget that please.

BW: Classless, in front the chance for the stage... in the back one of the GC favorites. Just put in somebody to spare green in the last km and forget the rest. But no, had to attack yellow with some guy too... classless.
TDot: Classless, give the stage away, ok, with Portiolo as only sprinter online it was going to be difficult anyway, no problem. Then, since he was clearly interested in green still, why not put a guy in green to control a bit, later red, get the sprint for place 5 or at least try? No... money attack, followed by being countered, then with a GC counter on his own. Just classless and embarrassing. Unable to ride straight.
EXOCDS: Classless. Give the stage chances away, ok again, no problem (because with a Stojanovicattack and Milankovic following, some chances are there, even if then Tdot would get the help of Yamada and maybe Gibb of BW) Attack then for green for Milankovic ok too, trying to get his GC guy there.. hihi, classless. Again, the classy thing would have been to control a bit, try the green attack with Milankovic, let Manic be Manic and fight that fight another day.
Heidfeld: Yep, follow the attack for money, why not. Not that it's really necessary.... see my guys, the one that maybe still could have followed, didn't try, even though it was clear... what for.. place x? Pff. Still it's clear money riding, ok not embarrassing really, not classless either actually. But why not just cover in the back not to let anybody escape, since it would be in his interest too? Then put a few guys on following the green attack, why not if that little money really makes your day.
MBak: Similar again, the green attack ok, but another GC favorite who didn't feel a need to cover but wants to play the GC here...

Reason for all the non covering? IMO everybody was hoping to follow the right guy to gain time on the rest or another one himself. On a simple flat stage. Of course you can, not unfair, not forbidden... just cheap IMO. So do you really need to? The "normal" thing would be just to control it a little bit, each one 1 rider, doesn't change your attack chances for green or MONEY at the end... but makes it a more "manly" race... for lack of a better word. But no... one wants the stage, yellow for a day in the back, money for x riders too. The other one wants to to win time on GC, the third one too, etc etc. And all of course without trying to invest much... not much of a tactic either, it's more button-pushing than anything else.

Classless.

Yeah, of course another bad day for me, but I knew that the moment the group was gone really. And even with no group with my sprinters more likely then not not a good day... But with the group gone, was expecting exactly this kind of racing at the end. Fully fulfilled my expectations.. no problem, knew from the start that with my team I would not get much... doesn't look like I'll get much the rest of the tour either, but no reason to start riding with no balls (yet), and go for the cheap extra 5 to 10k

[bergwerk cycling]

The most in your post might be right.

But the main problem is, that the sprintteams are mostly off and not good enough in the flat ... but thats there problem, not mine!
I have no real chance to win in sprint or to get green anyway and no yellow to defense, so not my thing today.

But no, had to attack yellow with some guy too... classless.

And in the end i dont attack with 1 guy ... i am only hanging on the teams who attack every time ... not more!
They "zock" me ab 1 time in the end, thats enough i think.
Yes i looked for Bourne 1 day in yellow ... but see no wrong thing in this.


Now we will see what the hilly stages will show us.

Seems to be perfect english .-)

[HeidfeldFanclub]

Heidfeld: Yep, follow the attack for money, why not. Not that it's really necessary.... see my guys, the one that maybe still could have followed, didn't try, even though it was clear... what for.. place x? Pff. Still it's clear money riding, ok not embarrassing really, not classless either actually. But why not just cover in the back not to let anybody escape, since it would be in his interest too? Then put a few guys on following the green attack, why not if that little money really makes your day.

Well, you are right, but on the other hand, why tempo in peloton to give sprinters and green fighters a better placement. Plus, that following brought me yellow today - just for one day of course, but yellow on the tour - honour Money semi-important, won't have any after this tour anyway.

[HeidfeldFanclub]

Oh yeah, congrats today @Ape. Nice one. Maybe would not be happen if I could have been on or had a sitter all stage