December Tour 2011 talk page (not presentation)

[iBanesto]

Schlonz.

Nice tour, I like it from the start. You get a bonus point for using the same scale on all your profiles, although it does not quite work out on the 12. I hope you have that rest day after stage 6 and not before it. Because then you would be in the same dilemma like VAC. Stage 6 is superb, but only if you don't have another GC stage the next day. The other mountain stages also look cool, the balance with the long ITT should be ok (ITT before montains, bonus points again!), because the mountains are supersteep. On the downside the flat stages are pancake flat. It's ok to have a couple of pancake stages, but here all five flat stages are undisputed sprinter's stages. Give them three pancake stages, make them fight for number four+five and maybe give them a sixth as a long shot.
Overall another good tour, still have no favorite, where's the next tour?

[sylvainmeteo]

Schlonz : a good tour, but like iBan said, sprints stages are too flat ^^ and where are intermediate sprints?
mountains are very steep... a climber will get red easily ^^ will be hard for escapers...
ITT not bad, but 82+MO/75+TT will wiin this tour normally, no chance for a Trondal or a climber with less than 55 TT (except 89/90 superstrong climbers ^^)
At this moment :
Best tour for my team : iBanesto's tour
Best tour for the suspens without mine : Gipfelstuermer's tour

[Robyklebt]

Design 2012 ? I thought you were supposed to win this year. Why would you design one for next year?

Mmh, right, good point. Usually you only manage to make commas, this time a point. Ok, maybe I don't win this time and have the perfect tour 2012!

[sylvainmeteo]

Saller's tour is really good, we could have lot of fights like in my tour, interesting, the ITT is quite short, but TTT is really good, the winner needs at least 55 or 60 TT

[Gipfelstuermer]

Oh, application 5+6 are online, looks like good participation this year.
I already commented on Honshu and Course de la Paix.
VAC and Pura Vida are special. I could probably live with both, because I love the Irazú-climb!

Ok, enough emotions, let's come to VC and British Islands:

The Vuelta a Caribe (VC) leads the peloton through beautiful tropical islands (palms, beaches, bikinis ). So we won't have any problems with snow or black ice, I guess. The transfer from Jamaica to Haiti is a little long, but no problem, e.g. we could use the rest day for it. But wait, the rest day is after stage 5 or 6. What? 5 or 6? Why that? Just say "after stage 5" or "after stage 6" and not "after stage 5 or 6"! Honshu had the same problem... peculiar.
Okay, let's concentrate on the stages. 5 of them are flat, and flat means damn flat and long! Indeed I've got no sprinter and I'm not interested in those stages. But 5 stages with easy mass sprints... clearly too much! Apart from that there are stages, that look quite good. Stage 2 has a great downhill at the end, could be an exciting race. And stage 6 is really special with this high plateau, just amazing! But why directly before the stage with the mountain arrival? Ok, maybe there were no alternatives... so put the rest day here. Otherwise it will destroy the great stage nr.6! Stage 12 also looks very nice and strength-sapping. Offers lots of possibilities, really good stage! Until here I left out the 46km Time Trial. I'd say it is too long. Some riders will lose lots of minutes... But ok, time trialists will be happy
My result: Realistic surroundings, a few amazing stages, but a little confusion with the rest day and definitely too many completely flat stages.

For the British Islands (BI) the riders don't need their swim shorts. Though it's a tour across islands, we'll have inconvenient weather conditions, maybe no snow, but never more than 10°C. And I'm afraid you broke the rules, because you have no rest day. Or did I overlook it? (By the way, Eifel, I think your language needs an upgrade. Of course no one expects perfect English and I don't want to sound offensive, but it is really hard to read your explanations.)
Again, my focus should be on the stages: We've got a prologue and a TTT. The TTT will be really hard, 32km is long. It's more important to have a good team here, so it's not as evil as an ITT. So I guess the balance is okay here. And I rarely say something like that, but I like your flat stages. Either they have a few hills or they are freaking short, so it's not easy to control the peloton. It nearly looks like it's too difficult for a sprinter team 75-80 guys will have fun on those middle mountain stages. They aren't very spectacular, but offer exciting races, if there are active managers. Unfortunately I miss some real HC-stages, but that's normal in Britain. Stage 9+12 look nice, but the percentages won't be as nice as the profiles. So mountain riders with a weak TT-Team will have huge problems.
My result: We would need winter clothes, but some flat stages promise nice racing. The winner will need flat skills and TT skills. Nothing for mountain specialists, but that's Britain of course.

[NoPikouze]

lots of paved road

Where ?

[sylvainmeteo]

Roby's tour is like hell ^^ TT and 2 firsts stages are looong... worst than me
too much mountainous, won't vote for this tour for me and no really suspens for GC...

[Robyklebt]

Edited, since nobody else is writing.. well, no comments on the tours from me either.

[NoPikouze]

Anyone cares about this, or should we cancel the competition ? Imo we should

Ok, a quickie... i'm really uninspired about any of those tours...

PURE VIDA (gipfelsturmer)
Nice location, good looking profiles, concentrated in one region. So far, so good.
Stage 1, short and sprint, or not, probably not, but still its an interesting start.
Stage 2, long and sprint, I guess the first hills become useless, but still good.
Stage 3, short and middle mountain with a flat finish. Still interesting. Getting bored of flat endings now...
Stage 4, 2 hills with a long flat inbetween, and a downhill arrival. Good! Can sieb weak teams, then ride, then win with a complete climber. Good job.
Stage 5, a real middle mountain stage, seems quite open, many possibilities.
Stage 6, flat, good a bit of rest for the gk guys, a goal for the sprinters.
Stage 7, ITT, medium distance, nice, I like it. Seems to fit with the whole tour (not too much for any of the gk type of riders)
Stage 8, a real mountain stage, a kind of flat mountain in the end, and another downhill arrival. Interesting! But straight after the ITT... don't know. Ok, big reg leaders will have fun, low reg riders will cry their mummies. 26km of ITT the day before seems perfect. I'm just guessing the energy loss, but it might make a slight difference according to the reg. Sounds great, actually.
Rest day
Stage 9,Flat stage, arrival for classics, unless they are blocked. Nice one. We don't see this so often, but it's cool.
Stage 10; a couple of real mountains. But again a downhill arrival. Why not on top ?
Stage 11, the longest final climb ever. Nice one. Finally a HC arrival.
Stage 12, flat, classic tour ending, ok.

All in all, I like this tour. The buildup seems great. Various kind of stages, with often some kms to make fun. Great job, imo. My only criticism would be: 3 downhill arrival, one uphill... Make it 2-2 and it's perfect.

[team fl]

I took a look at all proposed december tours and finally chose three tours I like (and liste their disadvantages too):

- Vuelta America Central: nice tour, well balanced, but: no rest day! and an ITT over 26 km is not a resting day for anybody.
- Pura Vida: good tour, nice stages, well designed (stage setting). but: only 1 mountain finish
- Yemen: interesting profiles and setting, hard tour. but: to many very long stages.

The others I left out mainly because of the following points (my opinion):

- Honshu: seems to be unbalanced to me. made mainly for habermachers/leupolds. only two mountain finishes and one is very short.
- Paix: too flat, too easy. only two short and not very hard mountain finishes, although an interesting ITT
- Caribbiean: too long ITT after an easy stage and before a rest day.
- British Islands: riders, not drivers!!!