New transfer system for youth riders

[sylvainmeteo]

It's really hard to get a good rider in youth market... the richest teams can get good riders easy...
I search a good classic rider since 2 months...

[Zentaron]

Think, you are searching for a perfect classic rider like the most here do. That's the problem.

[sylvainmeteo]

Think, you are searching for a perfect classic rider like the most here do. That's the problem.

a 53/73 with at least 65 downhill would be good for me, but the young classics has 79 or 55 downhill lot of them has too much TT for me also...
we will see, I hope to get one this month

[Aixteam]

What is the fuck with 79 downhill ?!

[sylvainmeteo]

What is the fuck with 79 downhill ?!

There are too much teams interested by guys... and the guys who have 4/5 millions in their team could buy them easily... (especially the 54+/73+/79...)
I just hope to get 1 guy this month with the youthmarket....

[gaurain rx]

What is the fuck with 79 downhill ?!

There are too much teams interested by guys... and the guys who have 4/5 millions in their team could buy them easily... (especially the 54+/73+/79...)
I just hope to get 1 guy this month with the youthmarket....

You have one cool 21 years old at the moment... 56-74-70 (which means 55-73 anyway)... With 48 sprint unfortunately and a low reg

[sylvainmeteo]

What is the fuck with 79 downhill ?!

There are too much teams interested by guys... and the guys who have 4/5 millions in their team could buy them easily... (especially the 54+/73+/79...)
I just hope to get 1 guy this month with the youthmarket....

You have one cool 21 years old at the moment... 56-74-70 (which means 55-73 anyway)... With 48 sprint unfortunately and a low reg

Yes, a bit late, but if there's a 56/74 with good downhill and sprint, why not, but there's not the guy that I want ^^
Don't worry a will get one guy!

[Buhmann]

- make d1-4 auctions for all 'no name riders', name geben i mean, not sure how they are called in english. same system, same thing. basically.

Any raison against? In my opinion this should be okay, too.

But i think i would implement it that way: Auctions like now the youth riders until the rider reach the 95%. After that the current system, means without bids but with price decrement depending on the age.

I have implement this. I will integrate it in the game tomorrow. Small correction to the post before: You can bid with min 100% of the value. Then the rider decrease depending on age like now. I will write something into the news-page when it is online.

[Robyklebt]

Right now Name geben don't decrease in value as far as I know. But ok...

[Buhmann]

Sorry i meant the following: I will integrate the auction system for riders which was already sold in the past, for riders with name. And of course only for Div 1-4

[Rockstar Inc]

woow woow woow woow....for riders with names? or "name geben"?...for riders with names...let me think about it...you sell Ingo Ubbel and as big Ingo Ubbel-Fan i have to fight against Mr. Singe in an auction?

hmm...isn't that a totally different subject then robys proposal?

P.S. The teambug with more then 20 riders is still there...ask Adler who bought his rider 21 from the JTM

[Robyklebt]

He just quoted the wrong thing... Of course the ape proposed that too.

- make d1-4 auctions for riders sold in d1-4, here is more complex, the discount rules. but the auction idea first actually came up exactly in this discussion, instead of having all the managers that want daniel lopez checking the tm nonstop, then the first one who sees him gets him, let money decide.

Would have liked to see faster "cheapening", plus included in auctions too, but ok. Let's see how it look in detail before complaining!

[Buhmann]

Bit if you want to give a bid of 60% of something like this, it would takes a long long time. Furthermore the decreasing now depends on the age, i don´t want to change this. I think the auctions should be for fighting against each other to get a rider. And there it is enough that way. If the rider reach the 100%, the fight is over.

[Rockstar Inc]

hmm ok, the apre proposed...i didn't read...ok 1:0 for Buhmann..grr have too equalise...

[quote=Buhmann]And of course only for Div 1-4[/quote]

hmm another punch in the face for div1-4...so it's time to do something about the div5+ market too...in the last past days i read some quotes in the races again, teams like to stay in div5 because of the better tm...give the teams in div1-4 something positive...now you cut them the positive aspect "i'm in a higher div, so i see a sold rider earlier as a div4 teams...in the german part of the board there are some proposals...it should be a focus to get in higher divs....not a penalization

[Buhmann]

Then please let us integrate such rule:

Raise/Stay in Div 1: 300.000
Raise/Stay in Div 2: 250.000
Raise/Stay in Div 3: 150.000
Raise/Stay in Div 4: 100.000
Raise in Div 5: 500.000

Okay, wrong thread, but don´t see any raisons against it.

By the way: Have anybody an idea how to integrate the auctions for Div 5 teams, too? I don´t like it that there is another system. Maybe better raise up to Div 5 if a team has 3000 eternal points or something like that but the we have a Div 1-5 marcet instead of a Div 1-4?

[Robyklebt]

Stop throwing money around Buhmann. It's not the solution.

You might be able to by my love with money (should I send you my account number), but it's not the solution for everything in the game.

you need to realize one thing.

You can't give ALL to everybody.

D1-D4 need some advantages. D5 needs others.

But so far you too often are afraid to let D1-4 have their advantages, and give them to D5 as well.

But ok, first the post I was writing when I saw the your newest post.

Buhmann: I actually think the decreasing speed should increase for sold riders.

For them it shouldn't take more than 48 hours to reach 100%. Probably not much less either, we still want as many people as possible to see them.

Then, ok, if then you want to have them go down slowly like now... ok. But can you tell us how the speed is right now? Or is that a game-secret? I'm not really up to date on that anymore.... Short repetition of the rules as they are now? Max cheapening according to age, right? Speed as well?

Wrote more, but got bogged down in a vicious circle while trying to make rectangle, will try to untangle myself from this mess before I post more about that.

Ok, think I kind of untangled it.

Sold riders: First month. Normal training, they are motivated to find a new team.
Second month: 50% of training. (200 percent for negative trainings) motivation is going down.
Then stay on the market until the next month change without training.
Stay another 5 days, then retire.

Then

D5 auctions. NO
The reason to me seem obvious.
1) The number of teams needs to be fix for the auction system to work. That can probably be corrected with an automatic nr of teams adjustment. Which then can be used to increase the number of riders offered by easy multiaccounting.
2) Then you integrate D5 FULLY into the D1-4 system. That means: No resets. 50 day rule for bought riders. Make the sale of riders LESS tempting for some D1-4 teams. Teams like me that want to see their riders continue their career. With a big D1-5 market and the loss of some D5 advantages like resets, we'll see more dead teams. That simply realize they can't continue like that, either stop the game or create a new account, which will lead to many wasted riders on those teams.
3) Even by raising the D5 limit to 3000 points, you'll have unexperienced managers competing against very experienced ones for riders. Which in the end hurts both. The unexperienced ones who risk overpaying for average riders, since they don't know the game that well yet. Right now we get some of those in D4 too. maybe 2-3 a month. But they still can "recover" by going down to D5 again, which often will happen. They have the reset possibility there. With the system proposed by you,no. You'll hurt the experienced managers by having to compete against other D5 managers, that got the game after 3000 or 5000 or 8000 points, know which riders are really good, or have good mentors. And coming from D6 and group 2 or 3 even sometimes, have lots of money to spend. While especially D1 teams that ride for GC wins often have huge problems earning enough money to compete for the good riders.

Could go on and on why I think having D5 join the auctions with D1-4 is a bad idea. Protect some unexperienced teams that simply don't know, can't know after 3000 points what a good climber looks like, how young riders train etc, protect teams from higher divisions against newly rich teams driving the prices up.


And back to the start of the post.

Advantages-Disadvantages.

Cheapened riders in D5? What for?
You once said, we have to look at the reasons something was implemented, then look if those reasons still exist, if we think about keeping or changing something.

Cheapened riders where introduced for the following reasons.
To make old known riders, not only superstars, all old known riders, from a simple support rider like your Coulieu, to absolute superstars like Fouché more attractive to teams. Because at the time they simply weren't bought, they simply cost to much. So that these known riders wouldn't just languish on the market forever.
Is that reason still there?
D1-4 yes.
D5? No. Reason, the amount of known riders sold there is minimal. A very few from relegated teams from D4, but the vast vast vast majority are completely unknown riders that in the end are just numbers.

So. Cut the cheapened riders in D5. You want the 60-80 pay the full price. you want the 75-82, pay the full price. You want the 51-46-79-70-43 with 65 reg for probably 1,5 Mio? Pay the full price, don't lead newcomers to buy him cheapened for 1 Mio. You want cheapened riders? Go to D4. The whole reason for the cheapened riders in D5 simply isn't there, increase chances for known riders to continue their active career. And for those few riders that are known, introduce the following.

Riders sold in D5 with more than 100 races. They FIRST appear in D1-4. Go through the whole process. Then instead of retiring, they appear in D5 for a month. Before they retire.

If you are really set in abolishing the D1-5 separation, ok, that can somehow be done, I don't think it's a good idea, but of course it can be done. But then you'll have to change a lot of things. Just including D5 into the auctions is far from enough. Because including them but leaving them the advantages like reset, no 50 day rule, better "name geben" is a sure disaster.

[Robyklebt]

Plus, you really need to correct all those bugs.

1: 21 riders. Bug or policy, whichever it is, do something. Bug correct it. Policy, make it official.
2: The bug, because that's what it has to be even though it's been there forever, that doesn't show all transfers. New teams: Bought riders, no transfer date. Show those transfers. Reset, not shown anywhere, show resets in an extra tab in the team view, and show them as "fired" or whatever in the rider transfer view.
3: FINALLY correct that bug that sends ALL riders from resets from D5-6 to the D1-4 market. It actually is hurting D5 a lot I think. Just look at the riders available in D5+6, classic guys. then go to D1-4 and click on a few. A high amount of those landed in D1-4 through this bug. By that you are depleting the D5-6 market of good 70-80es. Or 75-75. There are FOUR 70 mountain 70+ flat riders available in D5-6 In D1-4 from D5? Won't count them...there are many.

Of course nr 3 shows as well how bad the cheapened D5 riders are again. And the auctions would be too. Look at how many are up, look how often the D5 teams that bought 70-70+ riders had to reset due to the high cost their teams then had. Or in some cases probably the serial reset syndrom.

4: No ideas if it's done, so another thing, you need to restart telling us when bugs are corrected... the no limit on the number of cheapened riders in D6 (!!!!!) bug, if not done, do it yesterday.

[Buhmann]

We could forbid resets in Div 5 but let all rise up ti it when the team has 5.000 points or something like this...And then they could participate on the auctions. The only problem i see now is that, it is not so easy to rise up to Div 5. It´s depends on other the number and quality of the other teams. A system of eternal points is much better.

Cheap riders for Div 5 and 6 is good in my opinion. Of course the raisons your ale listened are not exist for that riders, but new teams should have the possibility to find a bargain buy (find it in a dictionary, cool word). So i don´t see a problem to remove these cheap riders. The don´t make a problem in my opinion.

I don´t know yet which of these bugs still exist, i will take a look of it.

[Rockstar Inc]

I don´t know yet which of these bugs still exist, i will take a look of it.

the stupid bug that you are able to buy 21,22,23 whatever riders when you buy some riders at the jtm

[Buhmann]

Sure?
I should fixed it for some weeks. But maybe there is still any fault.

[Rockstar Inc]

check the team of adler...he has 20 riders in the team and according to his words some days ago he bough a rider from the JTM

[Buhmann]

So that he would have 21 riders in the next month? Okay. I´ll check this.

[Robyklebt]

We could forbid resets in Div 5 but let all rise up ti it when the team has 5.000 points or something like this...And then they could participate on the auctions. The only problem i see now is that, it is not so easy to rise up to Div 5. It´s depends on other the number and quality of the other teams. A system of eternal points is much better.

Cheap riders for Div 5 and 6 is good in my opinion. Of course the raisons your ale listened are not exist for that riders, but new teams should have the possibility to find a bargain buy (find it in a dictionary, cool word). So i don´t see a problem to remove these cheap riders. The don´t make a problem in my opinion.

I don´t know yet which of these bugs still exist, i will take a look of it.

Ah Buhmann. Sometimes you almost make me cry

Not knowing which bugs are corrected... just post it after you did it.

"Cheap riders are good. Bargain buys for new guys." Sure? But first let me ask you. What advantages do D1-4 have?
The why are so many coming up to D1-4 due to the reset bug? Is it really good if you can buy a good rider very cheap when you are a small team? A rider that will make your team salary explode? Instead of a 15 Mio team with a 375 salary you get a let's say 18 Mio team if you take full advantage of the 3? riders and a cost of 450k. Is that really a bargain buy? Of course the D5 is everything but homogenous. So for some teams the bargain buy is very good. For others catastrophic.
And why "but new teams should have the possibility to find a bargain buy"? Don't get it.

But ok, you seem set on abolishing the D1-4/D5-6 separation. Not sure why, but as I said, it's a way you can go. But then it has to make sense.

So, how would the market then look exactly?

D6 until 5000 points? Isn't that a bit long?
D1-5 with the D5 rules now? So no more 68-78 guys with 66 sprint in D5?
The 50 day rule in D5 too?
No rest in D5?
Or would you actually want to keep those things, except the reset?

Then what riders does D6 get? What are the rules for it now anyways?

Oh, let's talk about the money idea again.

Why throw more money at teams? A money for division placement rule is a possibility. But not a good one with the existing system. IMO then we would have to go away from the pure salary per race system and implement a salary per month system. That is partly covered by the placement-money.
Because with the system now... money is not really a problem. 300k more for D1? Everybody just get's more money to spend on auctions... or in races. And somehow in the end I don't see the benefit of that. In fact in some races now there already IS too much money.

[Buhmann]

Money for a good div would be nice...escpically for new teams. The riders will be more expensive from now. And when we integrate the auction system for riders without name it will not be cheaper.
So why not such a system? Don´t see any disadvantage. Its offer only a small incentive, which is good for the game in my opinion.

Would it be a problem that Div 5 have auctions, too? Would mean that Div 6 teams only get rider if nobody bid more than the market value.

[NoPikouze]

The idea about rewarding the ranking sounds nice, but there are a lot of teams who have 5-10 million on their account yet... It's easy to win a lot of money if you go for this goal. Do we need to give even more ?