rider types (youth rider values)

[Radunion]

At the moment the rider types are very limited, for example it is impossible to get a rider with average mountain skill and average flat skill (e.g. 64-65). In my opinion the difference between riders for classical races and mountain riders is to big.

I like the system for time trial values for mountain riders (+3 time trial cost 1 mountain), a similar system for all values would be possible.

1) basis values 129 for mountain and flat together (same as now for mountain riders), 79 (down hill), 54 (time trial), 59 (sprint) (as now for mountain rider)
the maximum values for would stay the same (mountain 73, flat 74)

2) for every mountain less, + 3 for sprint or time trial (max values as now 82 (sprint), 77 (time trial)

I am not sure if the system is suitable for sprinters as the would be stronger, so high sprint values must be more expensive in terms of mountain/flat points.

Other effects become a little bit weaker (now there is no negative effect for classics riders) and lower sprint abilities for classics riders, this is a wanted effect (you have to choose between sprint and mountain/flat, you cannot have both at max).

Such a change can make races more interesting as there is more skill differences between the favourites (now all favourites often have about the same values).

What do you think about the idea in general and what details could be improved?

[Buhmann]

Roby will answer very detailed!

[ariostea]

At the moment the rider types are very limited, for example it is impossible to get a rider with average mountain skill and average flat skill (e.g. 64-65). In my opinion the difference between riders for classical races and mountain riders is to big.

we have already had a rider with 85 mountain 72 flat. i think 85-65 is no problem to get - but everybody prefers 88-59 - and training just is focused on mountain.

so in my opinion the types if riders you can "produce" are not very limited - it is just often mainstream production of classic riders for several reasons:

1. cheap - better to buy 56-74 for 1,9 Mio and to hope for 77-80 - than buying 73-56 for 3 Mio for getting 82-70

2. the only 82-70 has no advantages against the massiv pack of 70-80 riders... that might change, when there would be more, but i doubt because of point 1

3. mountain traning is a little bit easier than flat (better percentage , if i remember it right) - and the high skill (flat) is one point higher already - 74 to 73 - and this skill is the one that is to improve very hard.

but i think your are right - to have a better "bridge" between mountain riders and classics would be nice. as i already proposed in the other thread to make the maximum starting skills into: 56-72,55-72,54-73, 53-73,52-74 would be in my opinion enough. don´t know if we need a real system for this - because we have already the possibilities to form other type of riders - may be just have to make them more attractiv compared to the 70-80 bunch. (sometimes 80-80 - what is too strong in my opinion).

making the mountain riders faster in the flat is the other point in this direction - look here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=214

otherwise - with sprint - it is ok i would say. may be making 66 to 65 for the classics when the climbers have 59. but ok.

and still taking one or two points of the classics timetrial skill as compensation of their advantage of the flat skill . because we have seen too many races decided on flat stages just by attacking of a whole bunch of flat riders while mountain riders couldn´t follow...don´t think we need that untill we don´t have the Windkante.