RSF Classics for the offseason calender

[Falcor CC]

Where can I find the criteria to design a potential classic for the offseason calendar?

[flockmastoR]

Where can I find the criteria to design a potential classic for the offseason calendar?

It's a nomination procedure, fantasy races that can be ridden in the offseason (climatic properties) can be nominated and if there are enough votes for it (Taka makes the rules), they will be added as offseason classics.

So what you can do is, design high quality profiles in offseason regions!

[Robyklebt]

Maybe I missed something, but didn't the Seychelles Vacation race have 2 votes to be kicked? Why did it stay?

Also sometimes between October 24 and when it was ridden, Napier Bluff Hill Circuit was probably mistakenly downgraded to cat 2 from cat 3. Haven't seen any proposals to downgrade anywhere..

If I missed the pro Seychelles and anti NApier posts... some quotes would be nice.

[cataracs]

Maybe El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali can be renamed Trofeo de Cali only as it isn't a Triptico anymore ?

I missed this sorry.

Maybe I missed something, but didn't the Seychelles Vacation race have 2 votes to be kicked? Why did it stay?

Also sometimes between October 24 and when it was ridden, Napier Bluff Hill Circuit was probably mistakenly downgraded to cat 2 from cat 3. Haven't seen any proposals to downgrade anywhere..

If I missed the pro Seychelles and anti NApier posts... some quotes would be nice.

Seychelles Vacation race was added last year, so not going to delete it already, give it more chances...I think I said that somewhere.

Napier, I'm not sure. Found it as a cat2 so it stayed as cat2. It looks like a cat2 anyway, it's nothing special.

[Robyklebt]

Napier very special, I won it twice! Should be cat 17 or something. And yes, it was mistakenly (I think) cat 2 suddenly last winter...
If it's unpopular it's unpopular...Seychelles.

As for naming, you also missed Pointe Noire... correct that spelling!

[flockmastoR]

Hello,

as there was nothing proposed until now for a change of Offseason Classics and the time is already ticking. I planned for the races we rode last year.

Offseson Classic Draft v1

November 2026
GP Brescia 3 26.10.2025 01.11.2026
Boucles de Wallis et Futuna 3 02.11.2025 04.11.2026
GP de Papeete 3 06.11.2025 06.11.2026
Itabirito - Ouro Preto 3 12.11.2025 26.11.2026
El Triptico dC: Trofeo Cali 2 14.11.2025 29.11.2026
Popaya - SantaRoza 2 23.11.2025 15.11.2026
San Francisco classic 3 27.11.2025 24.11.2026
GP Canyon de Chelly 3 30.11.2025 11.11.2026

December 2026
Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup 2 14.12.2025 05.12.2026
Aizawl Cup 3 16.12.2025 07.12.2026
Jable-Al-Farandis 2 17.12.2025 13.12.2026
Colombo - Agampodigama 2 21.12.2025 17.12.2026
Clasica de Otavalo 3 23.12.2025 23.12.2026
Christmas Islands GP 2 24.12.2025 24.12.2026
GP Bet Lehem - Nazareth 2 25.12.2025 25.12.2026
Tour de Herne 2 26.12.2025 26.12.2026
Catania - Etna 2 31.12.2025 31.12.2026
La St Sylv 2 31.12.2025 31.12.2026

January 2027
GP Letzebuerg 3 01.01.2026 01.01.2027
Seychelles Vacation Race 2 02.01.2026 02.01.2027
Napier Bluff Hill Circuit 2 04.01.2026 06.01.2027
Kisoro-Kabale 3 07.01.2026 08.01.2027
GP Coimbra 2 12.01.2026 11.01.2027
Dolisie - Pointe Noire 2 17.01.2026 13.01.2027

But I want to propose changes now! What to do?
Good question. The number of slots will be left as is. What you can do is the following:
Upvoting: Propose a race to be upvoted (from cat 2 -> cat 3), if a second person supports your claim in the forum (simple quote the proposal and write +1), I will open an in-game poll that is then open for 7 days. If at least 10 votes are submitted and the upvoting has a majoriy (more than 50%) it will be changed.
Downvoting: Propose a race to be downvoted (from cat 3 -> cat2). Same as the upvoting prodedure
Exchange: I will keep the number of slots fixed and you can propose to exchange a previous cat 2 offseason classic with a new race to be added instead. Make sure to specify the race clearly (tell us when it was raced). If you find support by one forum member, I will create an in-game poll and the community can vote for it. As before, the races are exchanged when at least 10 votes are made and more than 50% vote for the new race. Races to be exchanged: Offseason classics that are cat 2 and ridden at least 2 years now (no elimination of races added last year).

Lets see if this works!

[Robyklebt]

as there was nothing proposed until now for a change of Offseason Classics and the time is already ticking. I planned for the races we rode last year.

Good, good.

I have slight problems with 2 points in the system.

1)

But I want to propose changes now! What to do?
Good question. The number of slots will be left as is. What you can do is the following:

The number of off season classics IMO should stay flexible. It's not like we have the perfect number. What is that perfect number? No idea. In the sense of "approaching fairness for one day riders" we're far from it. Of course it's illusionary to expect that people who ride exclusively 1 day races will ever have a chance to get a similar amount of points. But with lots and lots of small stage races (who even at cat 1 give out more points than a cat 3 one day race (I didn't check, but pretty sure it's the case, ok now I checked, even a 2 day cat 1 stage race gives 160 points to the stage race winner compared to 240 points for a cat 3 one day race, so overall the stage race gives out more)) to stay even somewhat competitive without riding a stage race... we would need many many more off season classics, of course many strategically placed during stage races. We don't have that now, we don't have to force and increase either, but we don't have to prevent it either. If we somehow end up with 5 more one day classics this year, not a problem. And if for some reason we lose 5 it's a bit annoying... but well, if our designed one day races are so bad, then maybe we need to design better races. A better editor would help (is that one of the issues?)btw. Right now it's 8-10-6, (thought I counted 9 in the other preview, but won't check for once) for 2.5 months, even looking at that November is a bit thin, so again, more wouldn't actually hurt. Anyway, you got my point.

My second problem:

Upvoting: Propose a race to be upvoted (from cat 2 -> cat 3), if a second person supports your claim in the forum (simple quote the proposal and write +1), I will open an in-game poll that is then open for 7 days. If at least 10 votes are submitted and the upvoting has a majoriy (more than 50%) it will be changed.

The following counts for all 3 categories. Even if from point one it should be clear I'd prefer to exchange "exchange" with a simply "add" or "cancel".

It already is difficult to have changes. Over the years we probably had 10 or so managers proposing things. But always only 3, 4 max 5 per year. And since we all have different tastes, more often than not most proposers failed to find a second and nothing changed. And some of the proposers probably got frustrated and stopped nominating things. Others grew frustrated but kept nominating... Now keep it the same and add a vote, it doesn't get easier. Adding the vote makes people aware of the possibility to nominate, so we might get more nominations in coming years, true, but certainly not for this year. So I would propose: 1 nomination is enough. And then the vote. Ideally of course as few votes as possible, that means bundle them, not a vote for every race. But 1 vote for all new nominations and all nominations to lose the classic status. So if I nominate to cut Cali and Popaya (just took the first 2 at cat 2, no further thinking behind it) and nominate "Big Donks forever" "Forever Big Donks", "Donkeys on the streets of Peru" "Ghanaian Donkey Festival" "Erotic Donkeys in the silent woods of Uganda" and of the course the perennial fan favorite "DonketyDonks Indonesia" and nobody else nominates anything, then we just have one big vote with all these 8. Q: You want it in? Then eithre over 50% all in or if there's a cap on max new entries then the x with the most votes get in. (obviously still over 50% vote needed) A second vote for upgrades to cat 3/downgrades to cat 2, these could be voted together as well, should this race be cat 3? All together 2 votes, clean, fast, should increase participation and hopefully would equally increase the number of nominations next year. Btw think should be made clear that nominating directly after a race is ok, just that it's for the next off-season. That's what I sometimes did in the past, so to not forget which race I liked and then spend 7 minutes finding it again (found the one from last winter, Donks=effective, clever, smart) Other would of course need 7 hours to find it.
Rules could also be adjusted on the run, that was always the case when I was bossing around here. It just never happened because we never had enough nominations to increase the number of + needed, and I never had the idea to add a poll... should have done that and cut the nominations to 1. So if we start with 1 nomination needed, then we have 27, change it to 2. needed. Or if we have a bunch of people only nominating their own races, eliminate those first (don't think it's wrong on principle to nominate an own race, but in some cases it will be...) Or limit the number of nominatons allowed per person. But actually right now we don't have any of these problems. Adapt the rules if it becomes necessary even during the process. But start with more permissible ones, like 1 nomination, directly vote.
Anyway, think here too you got what I wanted to say. Point is make it a bit easier to have change, not more difficult as this 2 nominations plus vote would make it short term (or at least would not make it easier)

Next concern I only discovered now:

Offseason classics that are cat 2 and ridden at least 2 years now (no elimination of races added last year).

Maybe an exception for the nominator? Happened to me before, nominate a race, thought it great, riding it the second time thought it horrible, so nominated it to be cut again (don't remember if I was successful.. but think I was) Ok, not so important, maybe the no exception rule is simpler. Means Donks has to really think about what to nominate...

[Robyklebt]

Also I demand that Napier be restored to cat 3. It was downgraded by mistake basically last year, there was no downgrade proposal at all, but went from cat 3 to 2.

Seychelles seems to have had 2 kick votes, but was kept, so would say in that case be nice and treat it as kept (until somebody nominates it then goes to vote, or only if there's a second depending on what you decide on the post above)

REnaming too, Triptico is no more Triptico, just Trofeo de Cali. And Pointe Noire! Not Point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointe-Noire

[flockmastoR]

As you say, with little expected nomination activity (late start of the discussion, members discussing last year not that active in game currently and maybe other reasons) I don't see a point in re-iterating the ruleset to include all possible exceptions.

About the fixed number of races. It is quite limited by the short time span of the offseason and the yearly ridden stage races. I dont say it needs to be exactly this number of races, but for the planning this year I would like to try it as described. If there is a race that is demanded a lot, I might make an exception and open a poll for introducing it without replacing another race. But in general the idea was also to keep the balance between different race types. So if you want to vote our a HC race, propose a better HC race, if you want a different pave race, propose a better pave race instead. If you feel that the hilly races are too dominant, propose a more flat race and try to convince the community that the balance should be changed.

Maybe we would need a voting system in-game after the race for cat 1 fantasy races. Usually, you are hyped by a great race for a very short time, like voting for the managers (previously known as fairplay votes) adding a x/10 star voting for the race itself would be nice to find candidates more easily. Otherwise, when you don't nominated it directly, you will forget about it. Was the case for me sometimes. Maybe we can dream of such a feature for future offseason planning.

So as the rules are not fixed, I preserve myself some erratic exceptions. Like when there is little nominations in general, I make polls for the single nominated change proposals as well. But I will keep the rules as they are, so that it is easier for me to reject creating polls if they don't match the criteria.

[flockmastoR]

Votings

ToDos
Rename: El Triptico dC: Trofeo Cali > Trofeo de Cali
Rename: Dolisie - Pointe Noire < this is already renamed in jan 2026
Restore: Napier Bluff Hill Circuit 2>3

[Robyklebt]

Think my idea of only one necessary nomination and no direct exchange would have been better, but ok.

As for the upvote, I object.
This is not an upvote. This is simply a demand to restore the correct category to Napier. It was cat 3 from the 19/20 winter season, until, 2024. So I got the details wrong, it was already downgraded in 24. I falsely blamed Taka, instead of flockmastor!

Offseason Classics 2024/25 - Proposal - Draft v1

November 2024

29.11. Napier bluff Hill Circuit (3)

Offseason Classics 2024/25 - Proposal - Draft v2

November 2024

29.11. Napier bluff Hill Circuit (3)

But according to the game it then was ridden as category 2 on 29.11.24 Without anybody proposing a downgrade.
29-Nov-2024 StageWin Yero Diatta Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team Napier Bluff Hill Circuit 2

Strangely then this appears:

Offseason Classics 2025/26

Here are the C4F classics from last offseason:

29.11. Napier Bluff Hill Circuit (3)

And then here it changes:

Offseason Classics 2025/2026:

January 2026

04.01. Napier bluff Hill Circuit (2)

So not sure if FL wrote it wrong in his first starting post for 25/26 and it was already category 2, or if it was indeed category 3 but somehow got retroactively changed to cat 2 once it was put on as cat 2 in 2026. Early on with the new editor I had the impression that some old profiles were replaced when there was a new profile for the same race, but that might have been my imagination since I don't really get that impression anymore, so probably it was the the FL writnig it wrongly as cat 3? When it already had been wrongly downgraded to cat 2.

Again, this downgrade wasn't wanted, there isn't a single mention of Napier Bluff Hill in the nominations, going from cat 3 to cat 2 never happened in the forum, that was simply an input mistake. So I don't want to nominate to upgrade, I explicitly refuse to do that. I want it treated as it deserves, as a cat 3 race that can't be upvoted. Only downvoted to cat 2. Since it is in fact a cat 3 race that just got put that "2" mistakenly. It's like if we ride Lombardia as cat 5 by mistake this year, we won't discuss if it should be cat 6 again in 2027, it's clear it is a monument.

Excellent on Pointe-Noire, should check before demanding next time!

[flockmastoR]

Think my idea of only one necessary nomination and no direct exchange would have been better, but ok.

As for the upvote, I object.
This is not an upvote. This is simply a demand to restore the correct category to Napier. It was cat 3 from the 19/20 winter season, until, 2024. So I got the details wrong, it was already downgraded in 24. I falsely blamed Taka, instead of flockmastor!

Ok, updated my post, will check this. What can be the reason is, that the recurring race event has it wrong, but I can remember that I always checked for it.

[Tukhtahuaev]

I propose exchanging Seychelles Vacation Race with Lombok Classic (Ridden on 04.11.2025)

[team fl]

I guarantee for nothing what happened in the past . Anyway, thanks very much mastoR flocke for taking over the off season calendar stuff! Unfortunately, I don't have the time nor the leisure (or better said priority) to be active in the game at the moment.

[drei.zehn]

I guarantee for nothing what happened in the past . Anyway, thanks very much mastoR flocke for taking over the off season calendar stuff! Unfortunately, I don't have the time nor the leisure (or better said priority) to be active in the game at the moment.

+1

[flockmastoR]

Votings
Exchange: Seychelles Vacation Race (02.01.2026, Profil) > Lombok Classic (04.11.2025, Profil) Voter: Tukh

ToDos
Rename: El Triptico dC: Trofeo Cali > Trofeo de Cali
Rename: Dolisie - Pointe Noire < this is already renamed in jan 2026
Restore: Napier Bluff Hill Circuit 2>3

[NBeullens]

can i do a vote for keeping the seychelles vacation race?

[flockmastoR]

can i do a vote for keeping the seychelles vacation race?

When there is a poll in the future, you can do it there and lobby to keep it. If the Tukh proposal doesn't get the 2 necessary votes your dissenting message will be considered in my decision making. But if there is a second vote, I will go for the public poll.

[Nomorelulz]

Votings
Exchange: Seychelles Vacation Race (02.01.2026, Profil) > Lombok Classic (04.11.2025, Profil) Voter: Tukh

tbh I like/dislike both races equally. one has too much downhill in the end,the other has a very steep climb with lots of flat. Both are very nice in a way, but I cant see a reason to put one in before the other.

Sorry if that doesnt help.