Itzulia Basque Country 15h - Abuse of admin rights

[Stevens2]

I’m posting the race chat below.

bergwerk(15:56): gw
Falcor(15:20): Go for it!
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:18): let's make a forum thread to discuss the favo role. react the race threads
JapanNeutron(15:16): GW
Falcor(15:15): Gw Undertaker!
Romoc Riders(15:14): gw
Team-Mojabahs(15:14): gw
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:14): stage win already nice start thx
SouthWest Packers(15:14): Gw WZF
Falcor(15:12): Also off to a great start for the red lantern team classification
Falcor(15:11): Same
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:11): just here because side program is dead
Falcor(15:11): Days like this are rare moments I miss Jensens 60TT start
Falcor(15:10): Don't think there was a single stage with a red km finish
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:09): I don't even won time on you today. not even funny to be considered among Davos
Falcor(15:09): Last year was way more Leupold friendly
SouthWest Packers(15:09): Ivan hatte das letztes Jahr auch gegen einen Huber gewonnen
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:09): no it's climbers or swp Huber.
Falcor(15:08): Smart, Lynch, Jamshid? Lynch would need a ton of luck
SouthWest Packers(15:08): Dir BW und mir
Falcor(15:08): But Vera on his ass all the way, so impossible to win
Falcor(15:07): Kerki stupidly not hanging on Kimmins, considered it, knew he would get into tempo alone eventually, but figured M-S wasn't gonna give a Heini win away like that...
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:07): zwischen?
SouthWest Packers(15:07): Das GK
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:06): Dreikampf um?
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:06): oh kerki just 4th yesterday?
SouthWest Packers(15:06): Wird ein interessanter Dreikampf
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:03): it's two times the 1
Falcor(15:03): Shows 11 for me too
Romoc Riders(15:02): it shows 11
Romoc Riders(15:02): nice form by Lynch
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:02): lynch is 1
Falcor(15:02): Good, the Undertaker doesn't deserve that anyways!
Romoc Riders(15:01): no nr 1 rider
Alkworld / Admin(15:01): Have fun!
Falcor(15:01): Thanks Alk
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(15:00): we can just skip the first 2 km
Alkworld / Admin(15:00): race will start now
Falcor(15:00): There he goes
SouthWest Packers(15:00): Servus guys
Hansa(14:59): Sorry for the mess..
Alkworld / Admin(14:57): I just for a moment postponed the race, will move it soon back
Alkworld / Admin(14:56): I'll try
Team-Mojabahs(14:54): moin
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(14:54): I asked in the admin group
Wiener Zentralfriedhof RV(14:52): just on smartphone here.
Hansa(14:52): Can you take me out aad or is that not possible? I have no real chance being here during work days..
Romoc Riders(14:51): you have to win it now
Hansa(14:49): I didnt want to be here...
Romoc Riders(14:42): hello
bergwerk(14:35): glückauf and hello ... wish a nice tour

So I’m going to take two cases to give my opinion, hoping to limit the use of “admin rights during races.”

First case:

Hansa signs up for a race and then asks to be removed. I’m not going to question whether he saw the opposing team compositions and decided to leave thinking he wouldn’t perform well... Only he knows that.

But what I do want to question is the fact that he was allowed to leave the race. We’re all grown adults, we should take responsibility. If I sign up for a race and make a mistake, then I own it.

I think this opens the door to abuse: I join, bring a very strong team, see that I might struggle, and then ask to be removed.

Second case:

FL asks to be added to the race and gets added after the deadline and that’s even more unfair. I have nothing against FL, but this is excessive. We’re talking about a situation where he can see all the opposing team compositions beforehand.

Normally, if you miss the deadline, that’s it you move on. But allowing him in is unfair favoritism.

You might disagree, but I’m convinced that if it were Spree making the same requests in both situations, he wouldn’t even be taken seriously. If Spree showed up at 20:40 saying “can I join?”, he’d just be ignored.

And that’s what bothers me. As players and admins, we need to be accountable. If a player makes a mistake, they deal with it. The same goes for admins they shouldn’t use their “god mode” to force unfair decisions.

Everyone has their limits. You can trash talk if you want, but honestly, when I see things like this, it really puts me off the game and makes me want to sell everything.

We all spend around 2 hours a day on this game it’s a huge investment for everyone, whether it’s Spree, Dreizehn, Romoc, JapanNeutron. There shouldn’t be any “I know Hansa, maybe he made a mistake.”

Take responsibility. You made a mistake. okay, that happens. Everyone makes mistakes. But unfortunately, we’re not going to remove you. You’ll only play 3 days out of 7 .it’s not ideal, but that’s on you. The game didn’t force you into it against your will.

Once, I misjudged a turn while parking and scratched my car. I took responsibility for it. That’s what I should have called this topic: “Take responsibility.”

Actions like this just create frustration for me and I don’t think I’m the only one. But if you don’t care and you’d rather play with 4 or 5, that’s your choice.

[Servicio Médico]

First of all from the admin side for me it just looks like Alk was trying to help people out that made a mistake. So i have a hard time seeing that in negative way.
But with the good intention to help people out there also comes the problem that to keep it fair you have to help out everyone equally. And that is actually impossible even with the best intentions if you have to do it manually... coz Alk cant be online 24/7 or any admin for that matter.
So If you cant guarantee that everybody gets the same help if needed i think its best to leave everything to the in game systems in place unless there is a bug ofc or something the player is at no fault if something goes wrong.
Otherwise people might think certain managers are favored or feel treated unfairly if they see they get no help while others did. Would be overall not a good look for the game i think.
So as nice as it is in general that Alk or all admins just try to help in an inscription case like today or the FL one it could easily lead to controversies that could be avoided if we just let players deal with their mistakes. Coz usually you dont do such a mistake twice coz next time you prolly pay more attention. Its like the same with setting sprint early or whatever. Sucks at the moment but you learn from it for next time.

[drei.zehn]

We all spend around 2 hours a day on this game it’s a huge investment for everyone, whether it’s Spree, Dreizehn, Romoc, JapanNeutron. There shouldn’t be any “I know Hansa, maybe he made a mistake.”

Somehow feel insulted by Elaska here…

[Stevens2]

First of all from the admin side for me it just looks like Alk was trying to help people out that made a mistake. So i have a hard time seeing that in negative way.
But with the good intention to help people out there also comes the problem that to keep it fair you have to help out everyone equally. And that is actually impossible even with the best intentions if you have to do it manually... coz Alk cant be online 24/7 or any admin for that matter.
So If you cant guarantee that everybody gets the same help if needed i think its best to leave everything to the in game systems in place unless there is a bug ofc or something the player is at no fault if something goes wrong.
Otherwise people might think certain managers are favored or feel treated unfairly if they see they get no help while others did. Would be overall not a good look for the game i think.
So as nice as it is in general that Alk or all admins just try to help in an inscription case like today or the FL one it could easily lead to controversies that could be avoided if we just let players deal with their mistakes. Coz usually you dont do such a mistake twice coz next time you prolly pay more attention. Its like the same with setting sprint early or whatever. Sucks at the moment but you learn from it for next time.

I can understand your point of view, but unfortunately I don’t agree with it.
For me, an admin should only step in in exceptional cases. If a race is blocked, then sure, they can intervene in situations that are not the player’s fault and that the player is just stuck with.

But here, in both cases, it’s on the player. Honestly, even asking Alk to remove or add someone to a race after the deadline sounds crazy to me. I wouldn’t even think of asking that. If I missed the time, I deal with it. If I got stuck in it, I deal with it.

It means the admin has to take actions they shouldn’t have to take. I’m not blaming Alk, because in that kind of situation he has to react fast, maybe he’s not even online and just gets a message like “remove Hansa” or something.

In both cases, the fairness of the race is affected before it even starts:

In FL’s case, he makes his lineup after seeing everyone else’s. Great fairness.
In Hansa’s case, maybe some people made their lineups thinking he would be there (“I’ll bring 2 climbers because maybe he’ll bring 2 too”, “if Hansa is in, I’ll play cheap”).

In both cases, I’m not even in the race, but I know I would have been frustrated.

What’s the next step then? “Sorry Alk, can I remake my lineup?” after already seeing everyone else’s?
How many extra lives do we each get? So Hansa got that this time, and if next time I get refused, then what? I just have to accept an unfair situation too?

That’s why I’m not even mad at Alk for making that kind of move. I’m asking players to be responsible for their own actions. Just accept it. You’ve raced 2500 times, if you’re late, it’s over. Same for Hansa, you’ve done 3500 races, if you made a mistake, then own it.

Maybe Hansa saw BW’s lineups and thought “damn, this is rough,” who knows. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but the possibility is there, and because of that, it shouldn’t be allowed. You just have to accept it.

Your sprint example is actually a good one. If you sprint at the IS and lose the race because of it, you accept your mistake. You don’t go ask Alk to give you your energy back because you messed up.

[Servicio Médico]

First of all from the admin side for me it just looks like Alk was trying to help people out that made a mistake. So i have a hard time seeing that in negative way.
But with the good intention to help people out there also comes the problem that to keep it fair you have to help out everyone equally. And that is actually impossible even with the best intentions if you have to do it manually... coz Alk cant be online 24/7 or any admin for that matter.
So If you cant guarantee that everybody gets the same help if needed i think its best to leave everything to the in game systems in place unless there is a bug ofc or something the player is at no fault if something goes wrong.
Otherwise people might think certain managers are favored or feel treated unfairly if they see they get no help while others did. Would be overall not a good look for the game i think.
So as nice as it is in general that Alk or all admins just try to help in an inscription case like today or the FL one it could easily lead to controversies that could be avoided if we just let players deal with their mistakes. Coz usually you dont do such a mistake twice coz next time you prolly pay more attention. Its like the same with setting sprint early or whatever. Sucks at the moment but you learn from it for next time.

I can understand your point of view, but unfortunately I don’t agree with it.
For me, an admin should only step in in exceptional cases. If a race is blocked, then sure, they can intervene in situations that are not the player’s fault and that the player is just stuck with.

But here, in both cases, it’s on the player. Honestly, even asking Alk to remove or add someone to a race after the deadline sounds crazy to me. I wouldn’t even think of asking that. If I missed the time, I deal with it. If I got stuck in it, I deal with it.

It means the admin has to take actions they shouldn’t have to take. I’m not blaming Alk, because in that kind of situation he has to react fast, maybe he’s not even online and just gets a message like “remove Hansa” or something.

In both cases, the fairness of the race is affected before it even starts:

In FL’s case, he makes his lineup after seeing everyone else’s. Great fairness.
In Hansa’s case, maybe some people made their lineups thinking he would be there (“I’ll bring 2 climbers because maybe he’ll bring 2 too”, “if Hansa is in, I’ll play cheap”).

In both cases, I’m not even in the race, but I know I would have been frustrated.

What’s the next step then? “Sorry Alk, can I remake my lineup?” after already seeing everyone else’s?
How many extra lives do we each get? So Hansa got that this time, and if next time I get refused, then what? I just have to accept an unfair situation too?

That’s why I’m not even mad at Alk for making that kind of move. I’m asking players to be responsible for their own actions. Just accept it. You’ve raced 2500 times, if you’re late, it’s over. Same for Hansa, you’ve done 3500 races, if you made a mistake, then own it.

Maybe Hansa saw BW’s lineups and thought “damn, this is rough,” who knows. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but the possibility is there, and because of that, it shouldn’t be allowed. You just have to accept it.

Your sprint example is actually a good one. If you sprint at the IS and lose the race because of it, you accept your mistake. You don’t go ask Alk to give you your energy back because you messed up.

Well i generally agree with your opinion if or at what point admins should step in. Just focused on the part when they do in.
So overall i think its best to just leave this stuff to the game systems coz if you decide to step in you have to make it every time regardless of who it is and and whats the reason really unless ofc they state its just for getting ahead of the competition ..but thats just not likely so you have treat every case the same. And thats just impossible like i stated before and opens a can of worms you dont want to open with all the possibilities and reasons people would do that you just described. Then it becomes a question of where you draw the line.
So in my opinion i would say just dont do it at all since the game systems are in place for a reason anyway.
Better to suck up one mistake than causing a lot of trouble down the line with interfering when it comes to race relevant things.