Suggestion for the offseason calendar

[cataracs]

Based on the FL draft, I came up with this. Looks a bit uglier but it is what it is

[Robyklebt]

Horrible plan for November!

You just offer 1 offseason classic parallel to the Andes...there should be at the very least 3 during that time, even 4 would be ok.

Also you have Seychelles and Agadir in, stuff that probably is goign to be cut if I read the other thread correctly.

[cataracs]

There are not enough south American classics for November, go propose some! I know about Agadir and Sychelles, but nothing is official just yet.

But also with the sprinter tour, and three classics you just kill the Andes, are you sure? Parallel program will look way more interesting.

[Nomorelulz]

Based on the FL draft, I came up with this. Looks a bit uglier but it is what it is

Is there a way to see what these tour will look like? Couldnt find them in the last years.

[cataracs]

Yes you can look for them in the editor

[Radunion]

Is there a reason Mindanao overlaps zwei tours? Either do it one day earlier or a few days later.

[cataracs]

Is there a reason Mindanao overlaps zwei tours? Either do it one day earlier or a few days later.

It's meant to be one day later actually. It wasn't in the FL proposal, just added for all the tour demanders.

But it also helps the one day race participation. If there's only one tour (Tasmania) teams might go full on it, but when there's a tour later, some Will want to ride it. And it's parallel to Andes because it's à climber tour, we don't want the Andes climbers getting more.

[Robyklebt]

Make the parallel program too attractive?

Right now it's as unattractive as possible.
Andes are special anyway, there's a bigger number than for other long tours (GTs, Dec+Jan Tours) that won't start anyway. Regardless of what's parallel. And many that start the same. The number of teams that decide whether to start or not depending on the parallel program is much smaller than for other races.
And now? Weirdly Mindanao overlapping for one day? One lonely little off-season classic. Sprint cup, 6 days of that. Seems long and I for one plan on passing on it. (Couldn't find that thingy in editor)

So with that the points available are even more skewed towards the Andes than usual. They always are, but make it even worse?
Last year we had 5 cat 2+ races parallel, 1 Okinawa, so real (worthless) race. Plus 4 days Tour, 3 editions.
23: Same, parallel 4 day Tour only 2 editions
22: Only 3. 5 daySprint Tour 2 editions
21: Same as 22, Tour 4 days not sprint though
20:4, + sprint Tour with 3 editions

Then you put 4 winter classics parallel to the Dec Tour? Now this is a tour that needs more "protection". Non-specialized Tour where we'd like to have all teams that can ride there. There an artificially unattractive side program would be more understandable. Not nothing, but 2 classics. 1 small Tour.

Not enough South America? Give us Itabirito or whatever it's called for a start. And the some flexibility, a race off the region is ok too.
Right now you just punish those that plan to ride the 1 day races.

[Gipfelstuermer]

There are two conflicting targets here. Because there are attractive races and there are financially attractive races. These are not always the same.

I think RKL is right regarding attractive races in terms of category, prestige, profile design, etc. There should be attractive races parallel to Andes. But Taka is right regarding financially attractive races. The main programme should not suffer from financially too attractive parallel programme.

Now for having 1-2 more offseason classics parallel to Andes... financial impact is small, so probably I'd agree with RKL there. In terms of finances, the sprint cup could be shortened or moved if Taka wants to change the balance. For the December Tour, the parallel programme could be made financially a bit more attractive (more than 1x 4-day tour and my riders dont wanna go to Britain in December) and category-wise less attractive (less than 4 offseason classics).

Anyway, this is only about fine-tuning the calendar. Overall looking quite good.

[cataracs]

(more than 1x 4-day tour and my riders dont wanna go to Britain in December)

Don't worry, the tour is in the British Virgin Islands.

[Robyklebt]

Another thing, a bit too many of the classics on weekends. That's where classics often are, but since at c4f often the weekends are not that popular (haven't checked how it is now, but in hte past the numbers at times were clearly lower on sat-Sunday) some more on normal weekdays would be good.

[drei.zehn]

Is there a reason Mindanao overlaps zwei tours? Either do it one day earlier or a few days later.

It's meant to be one day later actually. It wasn't in the FL proposal, just added for all the tour demanders.

But it also helps the one day race participation. If there's only one tour (Tasmania) teams might go full on it, but when there's a tour later, some Will want to ride it. And it's parallel to Andes because it's à climber tour, we don't want the Andes climbers getting more.

Don’t like the argumentation. If we ride the tours, make it possible to participate. One day earlier for Mindanao would be nice.

[cataracs]

This could probably be thefinal draft, but still can be adjusted in case of some classics changes.

Edit: Applied the final changes.

[drei.zehn]

This could probably be thefinal draft, but still can be adjusted in case of some classics changes.

I like this one

[Robyklebt]

Are you sure it's a good idea to have 2 parallel races to the Dec Tour? Question of course is how many editions too, if it's 2-2.... oooookay, maybe... maybe. But still. Bah, annoying calendar, lately I get the white screen quite regularly? Anyway, checked 2018, clearly more active teams than now, 5 editions Dec tour. 4 editions Vamos a la Playa, outstanding 4 day tour. Both with quite good participation.

Having 2 parallel tours IMO makes the parallel program too good, too tempting. Dec tour, x design, only 1 (and one kind of, Jan tour) is ridden, then at least try to protect that and funnel as many managers as you can there. Check how it was 19-24 yourself. Got the white screen as soon as I clicked on Dec 19.

[cataracs]

Less money more prestige parallel to Andes, more money less prestige parallel to December, that's what Gip said! He's right imo, Dec tour is very popular, no need to protect it. two small tours are ok, we can reduce the number of editions if needed.

[team fl]

Less money more prestige parallel to Andes, more money less prestige parallel to December, that's what Gip said! He's right imo, Dec tour is very popular, no need to protect it. two small tours are ok, we can reduce the number of editions if needed.

The December Tour might have been very popular due to it not having many parallel tours in the past and thus has been protected?

But I guess, we will find out. Sometimes it's good to have a little change up to find out if something else works too.

[flockmastoR]

Hello,

pls find the draft to the offseason calendar 2026/27 here:

Offseason2026_v2.png (185.79 KiB) Viewed 1123 times

Offseason Classics discussion will be done here: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5342

[Tukhtahuaev]

The only thing I am not a fan of is the 3-4 day tour starting on November 30th because of the month change. I would prefer it to start on December 1st, at least if it is a 4 day tour. For a 3 day tour I can understand a November start to not collide with the classic on the 3rd.

Are there enough tours designed for the offseason already? And if not, what kind of tours are missing?

[drei.zehn]

For the tour 21.10.-24.10. we could finally use Tour of Libya.
Was planned last off season and for a reason I forgot not done.
Since then it’s living in the calender preview…^^

[flockmastoR]

The only thing I am not a fan of is the 3-4 day tour starting on November 30th because of the month change. I would prefer it to start on December 1st, at least if it is a 4 day tour. For a 3 day tour I can understand a November start to not collide with the classic on the 3rd.

Are there enough tours designed for the offseason already? And if not, what kind of tours are missing?

Will reconsider this month change topic. Thanks for highlighting.

Please ask Schappy about the implementation, I am just planning the spots. There is also the overview of fantasy tours here:
https://cycling4freaks.de/c4f-3.0/calendar-tools/

Maybe propose races yourself for spots

PS: just saw myself that the map view is broken. args.

[flockmastoR]

For the tour 21.10.-24.10. we could finally use Tour of Libya.
Was planned last off season and for a reason I forgot not done.
Since then it’s living in the calender preview…^^

Thanks for the proposal!

[Robyklebt]

Don't care that much, but if I remember correctly we got some european fantasy tours designed this year? If, then that would be another possibility, since generally (not absolutely) we avoid riding that in-season, and off season October would be the the best (if not only) place in the calendar. But Libya is ok too

[Robyklebt]

On the calendar:
November 9 classics Good number, but 3 on Sundays might be too much? Weekends are low participation days unless there's a REAL classic. The pull of off-season classics usually isn't that big. With nothing else ridden, no problem, but the one during the Andes maybe a non-weekend date would be ok. And maybe another one during the parallel tour would be good too. Points, give those that can't/don't want to ride the Andes or the parallel tour something with points there too. That would make it 10 in November, same as December with the fix ones. IMO that would be ok.

The open spot end of November will btw be demanded to be filled with another tour, I actually kind of like it as it is, a week all 1 day races, but be prepared for demands.

December roughly the same things: The one on Sunday with the December tour parallel maybe not on weekend better? Participation. Not a fan of 2 parallel to the Dec tour, the parallel program should be made unattractive stage race-wise, to get as many as possible to the Dec-tour, the ultimate prize for fantasy designers. But ok we had 2 parallel last year as well... Who got better participation than the Dec tour. Don't remember if it was the Dec-tour that was bad or just unfortunate that too many didn't ride it.

[flockmastoR]

On the calendar:
November 9 classics Good number, but 3 on Sundays might be too much? Weekends are low participation days unless there's a REAL classic. The pull of off-season classics usually isn't that big. With nothing else ridden, no problem, but the one during the Andes maybe a non-weekend date would be ok. And maybe another one during the parallel tour would be good too. Points, give those that can't/don't want to ride the Andes or the parallel tour something with points there too. That would make it 10 in November, same as December with the fix ones. IMO that would be ok.

The open spot end of November will btw be demanded to be filled with another tour, I actually kind of like it as it is, a week all 1 day races, but be prepared for demands.

December roughly the same things: The one on Sunday with the December tour parallel maybe not on weekend better? Participation. Not a fan of 2 parallel to the Dec tour, the parallel program should be made unattractive stage race-wise, to get as many as possible to the Dec-tour, the ultimate prize for fantasy designers. But ok we had 2 parallel last year as well... Who got better participation than the Dec tour. Don't remember if it was the Dec-tour that was bad or just unfortunate that too many didn't ride it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

About Sunday races: Just checked what last year was offered and found 4/8 November classics on Sunday and 2/4 December classics (not counting the fixed date classics) and 2/5 January classics on a weedend day. My proposal has 3/8 November and 2/6 December and 1/5 January classics on weekend days. My plan was to reduce the weekend classics for exactly the reasons you mentioned. But I didnt want to overdo it. I think the main argument for placing them on weekend is that it is somehow the case for most (or at least many) real classics too, but we can also simply ignore that and aim for max. participation. So currently 7/26 classics (now also including the fixed date classics) are on weekend days (Sat, Sun). Maybe still possible to reduce it a bit, wouldn't get rid of if generally.

The classic during Andes can still be shifted into the week from 16.11.-20.11. or we shift it into the "open spot week" end of November to make it an attractive week of one day races.

Need to check for participation of parallel program to December tour and the years before.

In general, wanted to make the offseason classic spots attractive, thats why they sometimes end up on weekend days when there are parallel tours to the main tour. Want to avoid riding a offseason classic parallel to 2 stage races. About number of stage races, I added already a lot more than I planned for, but I understand that they are quite popular. So adding more would really need a lot of persuasiveness. Changing the spots would be easier (the second parallel to december shifted to end of November). But I really like the idea of having one week without a stage race there.