Call for Volunteers

[team fl]

I still don't like it at all that volunteers should have an ingame advantage in any way whatsoever. And as said, the incentive for certain tasks has the potential to be abused, no matter how hight or low the chance is. Esp. if players only want to volunteer because of that.

[team fl]

the ownership situation btw is rather unclear, is it 1? 2? 3?

Who owns my local football club? Legally it actually owns itself (even if there are "founders" and "members" of the club).

... I don't even know what to say about this useless comparison and deflection from the initial question...

Legally it is totally clear who owns the local football club and who has which rights and duties. If you're interested how it's done in Germany, you may read here: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vereinsre ... utschland)

This game is clearly not organised as a club.

[Robyklebt]

That's why improvements for those volunteers would be good to secure the long-term survival (or even better: growth) of the game.

Nobody is irreplaceable. Not me, not you, not Taka, not FL, not Bitibert. Somebody doesn't have the time, the motivation, the skills (we're getting older too) to continue, somebody else will take over. The most critical part is of course the coding one, anybody can do the other jobs, you'll never have trouble filling them. Programming.. different. That's why, just as an aside, it would be very important to document what has been done etc. so your successors won't have to guess how something should work from naked code (as now Alk sometimes maybe has to, he could also just ask, maybe somebody remembers, Buh was good with communication) but can read up in plain english what the intention behind the code is. And if some day we won't find a successor, then the game is over, too bad, happens. Let's hope not for another 52 years, since that's the amound of time I plan to keep living.

Improvement for those volunteers? I for example have volunteered a lot in the past and I always found it way more comfortable volunteering without any allowances. Yes, now you're only complaining and whining you'll tell me, whatever, trying to show you the right way is just another way of volunteering And no, I still don't need any allowances for that. So I don't see these allowances as improvements.

AS for the ownership thing... interesting you focus on that... Whatever, there used to be an impressum, then an outdated one, now nothing, I was under the impression it had to be there, but ok, since I'm not a lawyer maybe it isn't necessary if it's not for profit. Ok, there's no owner, weird.

[Gipfelstuermer]

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vereinsre ... utschland)

This game is clearly not organised as a club.

Thx for the link. It actually shares lots of characteristics of the "Verein ohne Rechtspersönlichkeit" but indeed it could have advantages to formally file for an "e.V." because that removes some of the liabilities of the acting volunteers.

Btw, I like that you shared a German wikipedia link, because that's also organised as an "e.V.", which exists thanks to donations rather than ads.

[Gipfelstuermer]

interesting you focus on that...

Otherwise you'd tell me, that I don't answer your question.

[Robyklebt]

Well, it's not like you answered it anyway You still haven't understood that just producing some words doesn't make it an actual answer.

[Schartner Bombe]

... Good to know that NC jersey designs and banner designs don't count in this C4F world ...

[Radunion]

I am against it as well. There is a difference if you do something out of the goodness of your heart or for (little ingame) money—incentives do matter. The recent increase in fair-play cases will not be solved by money. Better rules could help, but they will not prevent teams from involving the FPC in their feuds.

For me, there is no need to rock a working system. So far, we have found volunteers when we needed them. I am confident we will find them again, not for small benefits, but because they love the game and want it to continue working.

[Robyklebt]

Hi all!

as you might have noticed, C4F was moved to a new server.
It was initiated by Luques suggesting to (officially) hand over the responsibility and ownership of C4F to someone else. As the previous Strato server was pretty expensive (around 600 Euro per year) and C4F licenses were not implemented in the current C4F version (aka "React") to cover the costs, we decided to move to a different server (virtual Linux server hosted by IONOS), which until now seems to work perfectly fine at much lower cost of around 80 Euro per year (I'm also using that server for some private stuff).
With that server move now also the ownership of the game officially changed. However, I don't wanna change the way the game is run right now:

Just a random post by Alk. Bolding mine. Thought I ask here now since it kind of fit, if it was urgent I'd have asked in that thread. I know even less now. Before the first question was "I" or "we" And if "we" was Alk&Gipf&AAD or just 2. After your answer I end up having no clue anymore...We might not have a (known) owner, but we sure have a master communicator!

So if you're going to address something, maybe think about actually answering it. And just to put your mind at rest, I'm not accusing you of acting in bad faith.

To come back to the topic. Allowances for volunteers is a bad idea.

[cataracs]

I am against direct ingame advantages for volunteers that affect the gameplay directly. When the license was still a thing, volunteers got free license. That's totally fine. But ingame money to strengthen your team? I don't like that at all. It might be far fetched, but it could lead to a conflict of interest doing your job as a volunteer and give the wrong incentives.

I am totally for giving them rewards, but not rewards that affect the gameplay.

Exactly what FL said. Usually pay to win games are unfair and gets boring, volunteer to win is even worse.

If you want rewards think of ones that won't affect the game play, it can be better looking profiles, better looking race screen...something like that.

[flockmastoR]

We should Introduce karma points. Volunteers get karma points. Sucking reduces your karma points. Moral wins +1mio karma points.

As in-game money I am against it. If there would still be something like race points or a discount for a license that would make actually sense imo.

[Hansa]

Give other rewards hard to think about it what rewards without ingame advantage there are but for example, deciding on a Fantasy race on a date once in a while as a designer with chosen time.

Golden name in Rankings for Volunteers, the badge on the profile ok but thats hard to find, make them stick out more.

Or anything other that appreciate them but that doesnt give an ingame advantage,

i will think a bit more about what could be possible.

[Servicio Médico]

im also against in game incentives for volunteers. and i dont even understand the reason behind it . the people that want to do stuff for the game already do it and there will prolly others in the future as well. so for whom this incentives are even for? the ones that wouldnt do it without incentives? if thats the case id rather not have them at all. id rather have people doing it out of love for the game or not at all. and since there are enough people doing it at the moment there is not really any solution needed for a non existing problem

[Gipfelstuermer]

Ok, I'd like to thank everyone who provided their opinion and constructive feedback today. I will put the allowances back in the drawer for now.

In a way it is reassuring that most of you value the volunteers and the way the system works now. Thank you for that.

[Alkworld]

the ownership situation btw is rather unclear, is it 1? 2? 3?

There's one clear part about the situation: The IONOS account (server and domains) is on my name, and the domains are registered on my name.
Everything else is more complicated and I'm also not sure how to see it.
- Originally, the IONOS server and domains were paid by me, but thanks to all the donations I don't even have to do that any longer (I actually still pay a part of the server, as I'm using it privately as well). Payment details you can now see in the manual, btw.
- server and DB access are currently only for GIP and myself (not sure if AAD now needs access or not)
- development is currently still only GIP and myself with GIP probably having even less time for it than I do
- in-game admins are still the same, but practically the in-game admin features are rarely used, mainly for adding news. Luckily, the game technically runs pretty stable recently, so not much more was needed.
- in general, the game belongs to the community, of course with different impact on the game depending on role

[Robyklebt]

Thanks for the explanation.