January 2025

[Radunion]

Final Calendar shows Trofeo Felanitx-Ses Salines (Kat 2) at 30.01. and not a fantasy race

I meant on a different day. There was another suggestion to do both races with fewer editions. I do not know the best way to do it but it will become a big issue in February.

[ECS Cycling]

Should be fixed now

ECS Cycling - Are these Tour down Under profiles in editor finished?
Only ask because if I look at stage 6 on official website its longer - 90km, they say 20 laps 4,5km ... (if I understand right)
Also some lap parts doesnt look like same laps in other stages ... some very short mintacts ...
And it still looks a bit raw, without place names on the route

Can you specify which Loops and Min-tact are problematic so I can correct them?

Edit: Place names were added on the profiles

[Schartner Bombe]

Should be fixed now

ECS Cycling - Are these Tour down Under profiles in editor finished?
Only ask because if I look at stage 6 on official website its longer - 90km, they say 20 laps 4,5km ... (if I understand right)
Also some lap parts doesnt look like same laps in other stages ... some very short mintacts ...
And it still looks a bit raw, without place names on the route

Can you specify which Loops and Min-tact are problematic so I can correct them?

Edit: Place names were added on the profiles

Only asking because it is one of the few "world tours" and usually the designer takes his time to make it as precise as possible:
St1: length 163 km - mintact at km 160 ... I mean it's the designer's decision anyway, but a bit short, isn't it?
St6: maybe wrong length 80 km - mintact at km 78 ... very short too.

ST1: I think we're riding the same mountain three times in cat.1 - if so, the profile in your design always looks different. Probably because gmx data was simply loaded. We'll adjust it normally so that it's the same.
Same thing I saw in 1 or 2 other stages.
You can go on official website to control.

greetz

[Radunion]

Just did a short check on stage 1 and yes there seem to be multiple issues. I think the profile includes the neutralized phase and therefore is too long. The first hill is "Distance: 2.22km, Total Ascent 111m" according to the info on the website. This could be represented by 6-5 or 7-4 (should check the gpx file how much steeper the first part is).

If you want I could participate in a thorough check and maybe a redesign of some of the stages.

[Robyklebt]

I take a short break from European drinking and eating for some sensible comments.

- Cyclocross left at 2 riders for now. A bit early to change it to 3. Waiting for more feedback and then change it for Feb or only next year if feedback remains mixed.

Cancel it.

1) There's no way to simulate it halfway decently at the moment
2)If we ride real 1.1.* races as cat 1, for no special reason, then certainly we don't need cyclocross
3) If we don't ride a 1.1.* race, because there's another more established one parallel, we certainly don't need cyclocross (might be parallel to real races too some times after all)
4) If we ride a 2.1.*race as cat 1, with only 2 editions, because of parallel cat 2 1 day races.....do we really need cyclocross?
No I say. Time to cut it. From February on, too late for January

Also: 5 editions Mallorca, 2 Alula parallel. 3 days in January, on 2 days double 20h? 1 day race and stage race. What's the thinking behind that?

Surf Coast:

I meant on a different day. There was another suggestion to do both races with fewer editions. I do not know the best way to do it but it will become a big issue in February.

I know the best way. Both on the real date. 3-2 editions. 3-3 if Alula has only 2.
But too late for the best solution now. On another day is of course pretty idiotic and pointless. So no Surf 25

Only ask because if I look at stage 6 on official website its longer - 90km, they say 20 laps 4,5km ... (if I understand right)

St6: maybe wrong length 80 km - mintact at km 78 ... very short too.

On the length. 4.5 circuit a bitch to design. If you do it as laps, 80 or 100 km. 4 or 5 km per lap. Other option, combine 2 laps into 1 and make 10 laps at 9 km. Nothing definitely right or wrong. The laps though should be identical, regardless of the method.
On the mintact, 2 kms is clearly more sensible than 10. Still waiting for somebody to tell me what the sense of 10km mintact is. No answers so far. Probably because it's just done without any actual logical thought or reason.78 seems ok, otherwise 80 or something longer, 50 sounds good.

St1: length 163 km - mintact at km 160 ... I mean it's the designer's decision anyway, but a bit short, isn't it?

Here agree, 160 is not ideal. Either 132 or 162. See above.

Enough sensible comments

[ECS Cycling]

Just did a short check on stage 1 and yes there seem to be multiple issues. I think the profile includes the neutralized phase and therefore is too long. The first hill is "Distance: 2.22km, Total Ascent 111m" according to the info on the website. This could be represented by 6-5 or 7-4 (should check the gpx file how much steeper the first part is).

If you want I could participate in a thorough check and maybe a redesign of some of the stages.

That would be helpful, thanks.

Only ask because if I look at stage 6 on official website its longer - 90km, they say 20 laps 4,5km ... (if I understand right)

St6: maybe wrong length 80 km - mintact at km 78 ... very short too.

On the length. 4.5 circuit a bitch to design. If you do it as laps, 80 or 100 km. 4 or 5 km per lap. Other option, combine 2 laps into 1 and make 10 laps at 9 km. Nothing definitely right or wrong. The laps though should be identical, regardless of the method.
On the mintact, 2 kms is clearly more sensible than 10. Still waiting for somebody to tell me what the sense of 10km mintact is. No answers so far. Probably because it's just done without any actual logical thought or reason.78 seems ok, otherwise 80 or something longer, 50 sounds good.

St1: length 163 km - mintact at km 160 ... I mean it's the designer's decision anyway, but a bit short, isn't it?

Here agree, 160 is not ideal. Either 132 or 162. See above.

Enough sensible comments

I think the circuit should be 10 9km laps, not sure if I could do that though, might need someone else's help. If that's the case, should the Min-tact be changed to km 88?
Min-tact will be changed to km 132, the bottom of the final cat2 for St 1

[ECS Cycling]

Stage 6 should be fixed,

Just did a short check on stage 1 and yes there seem to be multiple issues. I think the profile includes the neutralized phase and therefore is too long. The first hill is "Distance: 2.22km, Total Ascent 111m" according to the info on the website. This could be represented by 6-5 or 7-4 (should check the gpx file how much steeper the first part is).

Is stage 1 off only because of the neutralized zone?

[Radunion]

Is stage 1 off only because of the neutralized zone?

I have not found the time yet. If nobody else wants to do it, I will take a look at the weekend.

[ECS Cycling]

Here's the Villawood Classic, a 2km circuit with sprints on the 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th laps. Since it's supposed to be a 66min race and each lap takes 1 min, I put 66 laps.

[Radunion]

Well, Down Under is more work than expected if you are as pedantic as I am and not used to the circuit creator. I have redrawn stage 1 now (but not changed in the tour editor yet). Stage 2 the km of notifications do not fit the roadbook. In addition, I think all the climbs are too easy as the summit is often missed without manual adjustment (not so bad for my team, but my pedantic self again).



How are you experienced designers dealing with shorter hills, e.g. Menglers Hill "Distance: 2.734km, Total Ascent 188m Maximum Gradient: 12.2%, Average Gradient: 6.9%"? The middle section looks like an 8, the top is probably a 6. This keeps the first km as a 5 even if it is more like a 7 for 700 m.

[Gipfelstuermer]

How are you experienced designers dealing with shorter hills, e.g. Menglers Hill "Distance: 2.734km, Total Ascent 188m Maximum Gradient: 12.2%, Average Gradient: 6.9%"? The middle section looks like an 8, the top is probably a 6. This keeps the first km as a 5 even if it is more like a 7 for 700 m.

Yes, would keep that at +5, because otherwise you make the hill more difficult than it is in reality. It can be different if the whole climb is shorter than 1km. Then it might make sense to adjust upwards. For example, 500m at 10% is probably more selective than 1km at 5% in-game. But if the climb is longer than 1km and has other sieb-km, then no need for upward adjustment in my point of view.

Well, Down Under is more work than expected if you are as pedantic as I am and not used to the circuit creator. I have redrawn stage 1 now (but not changed in the tour editor yet). Stage 2 the km of notifications do not fit the roadbook. In addition, I think all the climbs are too easy as the summit is often missed without manual adjustment (not so bad for my team, but my pedantic self again).

Sorry, haven't followed the whole discussion. Do I understand correctly, TDU still needs some adjustment works? I would like to put it online soon, as it will start in one week.

[Radunion]

I am not really sure, but the km of the classifications differ from the roadbook in several places. The classified mountains also look a little too easy in some cases. I was not planning to start meddling with designing real races with a world tour race and feel a bit uncomfortable about what is done (maybe I am just a bit too demanding but I would prefer it right even if it does not change the race). I did the first stage again to see the issues more closely and believe my version is closer to the real profile (and realized I hate laps).

The easiest way would be to just check the classified climbs and make them more realistic. Honestly, I do not know the design standard we usually have here if the race has to be changed. I could put some more work into it but would prefer to work on my skills in smaller races first.

[Gipfelstuermer]

In the meantime



A few changes vs. 2024 but same final 20km

[Gipfelstuermer]

Honestly, I do not know the design standard we usually have here if the race has to be changed.

There is no official standard. Someone volunteers and designs it, and if there are comments, the designer is expected to consider them (doesn't mean he has to change things, but if it's sensible critic, most designers will adjust their design.)

So @ECS: Are you still working on these profiles or do you consider them finished?

[ECS Cycling]

Honestly, I do not know the design standard we usually have here if the race has to be changed.

There is no official standard. Someone volunteers and designs it, and if there are comments, the designer is expected to consider them (doesn't mean he has to change things, but if it's sensible critic, most designers will adjust their design.)

So @ECS: Are you still working on these profiles or do you consider them finished?

I think the profiles are ready, but there have been some comments about the validity of the stages/climbs. But if we need to publish now, I think we could.

[Schartner Bombe]

Honestly, I do not know the design standard we usually have here if the race has to be changed.

There is no official standard. Someone volunteers and designs it, and if there are comments, the designer is expected to consider them (doesn't mean he has to change things, but if it's sensible critic, most designers will adjust their design.)

So @ECS: Are you still working on these profiles or do you consider them finished?

I think the profiles are ready, but there have been some comments about the validity of the stages/climbs. But if we need to publish now, I think we could.

Stage2: Tanunda we ride 3 times it seems. But the climb always looks different. Is it like this? or you didnt check the climbs? Did not look at other stages.

[ECS Cycling]

Honestly, I do not know the design standard we usually have here if the race has to be changed.

There is no official standard. Someone volunteers and designs it, and if there are comments, the designer is expected to consider them (doesn't mean he has to change things, but if it's sensible critic, most designers will adjust their design.)

So @ECS: Are you still working on these profiles or do you consider them finished?

I think the profiles are ready, but there have been some comments about the validity of the stages/climbs. But if we need to publish now, I think we could.

Stage2: Tanunda we ride 3 times it seems. But the climb always looks different. Is it like this? or you didnt check the climbs? Did not look at other stages.

First two were the same, the third was different, changed that to be the same as the other two.

[Radunion]

Good, in this case, I just share my naggings and see what you are doing with it. And of course thanks for the work done.

Stage 1:
Includes the neutralized phase and should only have 151 km, so please cut the first 12 km.
For the hills I would suggest:
Kangaroo Creek Reservoir (category 2) Distance: 2.22km, Total Ascent 111m - 7-4 (as the start is the steep part)
Berry Hill Climb (category 2) Distance: 1.477km, Total Ascent 102m - 3-7 (it looks 7 % all along, ridden 2 times)

Stage 2:
Menglers hill should be the same all 3 times (in an ideal world the laps should be identical but maybe not care about this). I would suggest a 5-8-6 to 6-8-5 (188 m, 2.7 km) https://tourdownunder.com.au/plan-a-tri ... ngler-hill

Stage 3:
The first 5km are neutralized, cut them
The last hill looks a bit easy and should be the same as the one before and this one will be crucial:
2.636km, Total Ascent 199, Maximum Gradient: 13.4%, Average Gradient: 8.0%, so at least two 8th

Stage 4 I did not check, but it should be a similar picture.
On stage 5 Willunga Hill is ridden so often there should be old profiles.
Stage 6 looks hell do design and should be fine.

I know the last stages are checked in less detail, but this is what I have time for today.

[ECS Cycling]

Good, in this case, I just share my naggings and see what you are doing with it. And of course thanks for the work done.

Stage 1:
Includes the neutralized phase and should only have 151 km, so please cut the first 12 km.
For the hills I would suggest:
Kangaroo Creek Reservoir (category 2) Distance: 2.22km, Total Ascent 111m - 7-4 (as the start is the steep part)
Berry Hill Climb (category 2) Distance: 1.477km, Total Ascent 102m - 3-7 (it looks 7 % all along, ridden 2 times)

Stage 2:
Menglers hill should be the same all 3 times (in an ideal world the laps should be identical but maybe not care about this). I would suggest a 5-8-6 to 6-8-5 (188 m, 2.7 km) https://tourdownunder.com.au/plan-a-tri ... ngler-hill

Stage 3:
The first 5km are neutralized, cut them
The last hill looks a bit easy and should be the same as the one before and this one will be crucial:
2.636km, Total Ascent 199, Maximum Gradient: 13.4%, Average Gradient: 8.0%, so at least two 8th

Stage 4 I did not check, but it should be a similar picture.
On stage 5 Willunga Hill is ridden so often there should be old profiles.
Stage 6 looks hell do design and should be fine.

I know the last stages are checked in less detail, but this is what I have time for today.

Okay, made some modifications, should be ready unless anyone disagrees.

Edit: Mallorca updated intermediates

[ECS Cycling]

I've done the three Mallorca Races, up for review.

[Schartner Bombe]

There is no official standard. Someone volunteers and designs it, and if there are comments, the designer is expected to consider them (doesn't mean he has to change things, but if it's sensible critic, most designers will adjust their design.)

So @ECS: Are you still working on these profiles or do you consider them finished?

I think the profiles are ready, but there have been some comments about the validity of the stages/climbs. But if we need to publish now, I think we could.

Stage2: Tanunda we ride 3 times it seems. But the climb always looks different. Is it like this? or you didnt check the climbs? Did not look at other stages.

First two were the same, the third was different, changed that to be the same as the other two.

Stage 2:
the downhill parts dont look right too, if they should be the same downhill - But I'll stop here with the comments about down under - unfortunately I don't have time to help you fix it. Maybe you should take a closer look next time.

[ECS Cycling]

Alula tour done





For some reason, Saudi Arabia flag does not seem to show up.
Also, there are no KOMs, only IS.

[olmania]

Thanks for designing it !
What did you use to design it, found gpx files to import ?

The circuits need to be manually adjusted again I think (stage 2 & 5 I think ?).

[ECS Cycling]

The circuits need to be manually adjusted again I think (stage 2 & 5 I think ?).

Can you explain what is wrong with the circuits?

[olmania]

The circuits need to be manually adjusted again I think (stage 2 & 5 I think ?).

Can you explain what is wrong with the circuits?

in stage 2, it's visible that the circuit goes "down" everylap, probably more downhill % than uphill % in the circuit.

stage 5, it seems that the % are different in the 2 climbs (if that's a final circuit), but that might only be a display thing there.