Bullying in the chat

[Laugenspitze]

I was bullied today in the race chat by T-Mobile-A.

AAD supported him and even lectured me in the Fair Play message, suggesting that I should have accepted it because I deserved it due to my driving behavior: “Don't complain when being talked to harshly after your harshly money grabbing.” As I already mentioned in the chat, you are welcome to point out my mistake, but bullying goes too far. What happened in that chat was, by definition, bullying according to the Fair Play rules.

“Bullying or harassment of other players without insulting them directly, e.g., by sending repeated threats, pejorative labels, hate speech, sexual remarks, or posting false statements as facts, aimed at discrediting or humiliating a targeted player.”

Even when I explained that I felt attacked, both deliberately ignored it and unnecessarily brought it up again at the end.

We can certainly discuss everything else. Maybe what I did was “bad.” However, both "favorites up front" and "speed yes alone" are not listed as violations in the Fair Play rules. One might be considered “bad,” and the other not. That’s double standards.

But regardless of the situation, it doesn’t justify bullying - not even from veterans like AAD and T-Mobile-A.

I request an investigation of the incident. If sensitive people who feel demeaned by such actions are not allowed or should not participate in the game, then please write that somewhere. Then people know where they stand. Not everyone can be as tough, smart, eloquent, quick-witted or whatever else ...


Think about it. Thank you.

T-Mobile-A(16:42): See you soon
T-Mobile-A(16:42): Good evening Linny and the Gang
OLcycle(16:42): Schafer was the strongest, but Abreha was close behind
rsv lünen(16:41): I had Arce or Kukulis more on my eyes
Romoc Riders(16:41): gw
Schappy(16:41): ähm, i mean Narrenparty
OLcycle(16:41): Arce started the sprint way under 500 energy, I guess you were having 150-200 more
Schappy(16:41): gw Bugatti
Alive And Dead(16:41): just saw that all those sprinters suck in dh
T-Mobile-A(16:41): Mobbie has to be a Mobster normally
Dynamo Leinad(16:41): gw
Narrenparty(16:41): good group
Schappy(16:40): la Bella Italia
rsv lünen(16:40): gw
Narrenparty(16:40): thanks
bergwerk(16:40): not expected it
T-Mobile-A(16:40): Barthi die Maschine
bergwerk(16:40): gw
Alive And Dead(16:40): gw
T-Mobile-A(16:40): GW Narren
bergwerk(16:40): Buh
T-Mobile-A(16:40): 50 k penalty for Bella Italia!
OLcycle(16:40): Arce clearly spent too much energy, despite his 65sprint. did not understand the move of lunen @150m; prefect assist for narren ! congrats !
T-Mobile-A(16:40): I'll tell this Buh
T-Mobile-A(16:39): or are there two players with one account. multi?
Alive And Dead(16:39): Barthl holt den gruppe 2 Most?
bergwerk(16:39): oh yes
T-Mobile-A(16:39): you can't talk about the rest, sorry
Linn Drum Cycling(16:39): we prefer english
T-Mobile-A(16:38): der hält euch ziemlich zum Narren
T-Mobile-A(16:38): ui, interesting in front
Linn Drum Cycling(16:34): You are so great
bergwerk(16:33): think you missed the train to london .-)
Alive And Dead(16:33): downhill dynasty (not like in the Andes
bergwerk(16:33): but too bad vs. aad
Romoc Riders(16:33): ah okay. just asking
bergwerk(16:32): sleepin
T-Mobile-A(16:32): but there were complains about provocation. strange
Romoc Riders(16:32): why not Holiday on Plataniot?
Alive And Dead(16:32): yeah just good provocations by us
Schappy(16:32): and no Schartner with bad provocation in the chat
Romoc Riders(16:32): thx for trying in the back
bergwerk(16:31): of course ... so let the ring bell
Schappy(16:30): yeah, its a race, we talked about bad christmas things, choclate and cookies, so a good day
bergwerk(16:28): sometime so ... sometimes the other so ^^ ... good work infront and gl
bergwerk(16:28): jepp .. and before in the group with 5 we had to go in all
Schappy(16:27): not enough, bad waiting with only soe seconds back
OLcycle(16:22): yep, if the gap is enough you can suck. no idea about the energy difference after Arce tempo earlier solo and now tempo incoming.
Alive And Dead(16:20): question is: is somebody able to attack him, not if he wins the sprint
Schappy(16:20): every sprintskill 1,3 km
bergwerk(16:20): 13
bergwerk(16:19):
bergwerk(16:19): 34
bergwerk(16:19): 24
Narrenparty(16:19): OL what do you think how much do we need to suck with 11 sprint less?
Alive And Dead(16:18): lets see when they get serious about sprint compensation
Romoc Riders(16:18): not just 3
Romoc Riders(16:17): we need like 6-7 seconds per km tho
OLcycle(16:17): you can follow/block kosasih
Alive And Dead(16:16): currently gap is the bigger problem
Romoc Riders(16:16): buuut there is a random Kosasih here that might surprise us
Romoc Riders(16:15): or actually now
Romoc Riders(16:15): from 155, i join
bergwerk(16:15): we dont have a chance or?
Alive And Dead(16:14): serious mass with second guy each already?
bergwerk(16:13): not bad ^^
OLcycle(16:13): sieb
bergwerk(16:12): how could arve and kukulis be infront ... dont see an attac or ?
Alive And Dead(16:11): Liberty Sartene you also join? not looking good, but only chance is good mass
Alive And Dead(16:07): stupid heady rain
OLcycle(16:07): shared in the downhill I'd say
Narrenparty(16:07): shared
Linn Drum Cycling(16:06): shared tempo or normal?
OLcycle(16:06): I agree 65 is a lot, Arce lost a bit of energy here in the climb. we'll see later if we can make it. all in km134 to try !
Narrenparty(16:05): sure, but we have to suck a lot i think. but first we will start all together and see
rsv lünen(16:04): Narrenparty when we are through we can suck
bergwerk(16:04): i would help soon
rsv lünen(16:04): we can go for win I will help
Narrenparty(16:04): okay for me too, but 65 sprint is a lot diff
Romoc Riders(16:04): coop in chasing group?
Alive And Dead(16:04): I join in the back, nut only if others are joining too (bw for example)
Enigma1(16:03): Marlhou back you help me?
Linn Drum Cycling(16:03): ok
OLcycle(16:03): all in km134 then ?
OLcycle(16:03): I do the flatish kms here with Arce
OLcycle(16:02): ofc Linn, if we ride all together from km134, your downhill skill would be useful
Alive And Dead(16:02): or fighing in with my 2 classics
Dynamo Leinad(16:02): let'S try, but not sure how to compensate
T-Mobile-A(16:02): a hillsprinter would have been decent for today
Linn Drum Cycling(16:02): yes if I am allowed
OLcycle(16:02): Leinad and Linn ?
Narrenparty(16:01): yes i would go with you
T-Mobile-A(16:01): ui
OLcycle(16:00): please everybody answer before km127
OLcycle(16:00): front group, interested for a collab ? I'd start with Arce with ofc.
T-Mobile-A(15:59): Cyclist. Same as Wrolich, Hajek
Alive And Dead(15:59): Zangerle Rodel dynasty?
T-Mobile-A(15:56): Einkemmer is Nordic Combination, Vermeulen Cross-Country
T-Mobile-A(15:56): so they are realistic to change on the bike
Schappy(15:56): very near by the southpol
T-Mobile-A(15:56): I normally use names from sportler who does have good stamina
bergwerk(15:55): nearly the same
T-Mobile-A(15:55): He is a cross-country-skater from Norway
bergwerk(15:55): Roald Amundsen
bergwerk(15:55): amundsen ^^ or iam wrong?
T-Mobile-A(15:54): Polarforscher?
bergwerk(15:54): der alte Polarforscher ^^
T-Mobile-A(15:53): Harald!
Alive And Dead(15:53): anti Tuntsch
Schappy(15:51): i can not touch youi
Alive And Dead(15:50): you can also touch fake Gucci bags
Schappy(15:50): i can touch them
Alive And Dead(15:49): don't let them trick you, we are real, they are fake
T-Mobile-A(15:49): Schappy uncensored
T-Mobile-A(15:48): hehe
Schappy(15:48): real people i can not say this, but you doesnt know me
T-Mobile-A(15:48): so you avoid to celebrate it?
Alive And Dead(15:47): I mean, is that even allowed?
Alive And Dead(15:47): haha
Schappy(15:47): yes, i can say, i hate it
T-Mobile-A(15:46): don't like christmas?
Schappy(15:43): i am a grinch
T-Mobile-A(15:42): we also like chocolate-kipferl. same as vanille only with chocolate
T-Mobile-A(15:42): I know them
Linn Drum Cycling(15:42): I don't see it that way, you can argue about my actions, but being derogatory is something different. And one cookie isn't enough for me at the moment, I need a Snickers, I think.
Alive And Dead(15:42): so my favorite are those "kipferl" like in Vanillekipferl but made with pumpkin seeds and dipped in chocolate
T-Mobile-A(15:40): many christmas feeling here, hope there is no grinch
T-Mobile-A(15:40): I was called for some time
T-Mobile-A(15:40): Cakester
Romoc Riders(15:39): Cookie Mobster?
Schappy(15:39): provocation not to talk about choclate
T-Mobile-A(15:39):
Alive And Dead(15:38): We already have a much more interesting topic linn thingy
T-Mobile-A(15:38): wanna have a cookie?
Linn Drum Cycling(15:38): Linn Dings isn´t english and a provocation
T-Mobile-A(15:37): I see, cycling managers need chocolate
Alive And Dead(15:37): good "linzer augen" technique style of cookies
Schappy(15:37): i like white choclate, today i had the nice one with crisps
T-Mobile-A(15:37): I helped with the marmelade
T-Mobile-A(15:37): with marmelade in the middle
T-Mobile-A(15:37): dinkel chocolate cookies
Alive And Dead(15:36): I like all with chocolate
Alive And Dead(15:36): what kinds?
Schappy(15:36): the day of provocations?
T-Mobile-A(15:36): we go there?
Romoc Riders(15:36): i already ate gingerbread too
T-Mobile-A(15:35): my wife already made christmas cookies in november
Linn Drum Cycling(15:35): now we're going into provocation? twice?
T-Mobile-A(15:34): Chocolate Cookies > Friends
bergwerk(15:34): and a cup of coffee?
T-Mobile-A(15:34): isn't Donkey your friend AAD?
Alive And Dead(15:34): but I have chocolate cookies
T-Mobile-A(15:34): we prefer english
O Imperdor(15:33): Maybe put 2 Narrenparty
Alive And Dead(15:33): I don't have friends
Linn Drum Cycling(15:32): jetzt gehts in die provokation?
T-Mobile-A(15:29): and my friend Linn Dings
bergwerk(15:29): makes no sense if they are ridin
T-Mobile-A(15:29): Liberty as well
T-Mobile-A(15:28): Wolfpack, Leinad missing
Alive And Dead(15:28): is everybody in front?
T-Mobile-A(15:28): are now all the favourites in front?
bergwerk(15:27): alle 3?
bergwerk(15:27): fahren Narren?
T-Mobile-A(15:22): it's over soon
Linn Drum Cycling(15:19): no need to stop pulling, not my fault I continued
Linn Drum Cycling(15:17): LOL
T-Mobile-A(15:17): yes, but it's not fair to push others out for money. after this the rest of the pullers stopped pace
T-Mobile-A(15:16): no, I only told you, that your move was bad and destroyed the group. your double standards are whining
Linn Drum Cycling(15:16): and i did tempo too
Linn Drum Cycling(15:16): you are whining
T-Mobile-A(15:16): Imperdor did pace until you stole the money from the rest of the group
T-Mobile-A(15:15): you talk strange things
Linn Drum Cycling(15:15): double standards as always
T-Mobile-A(15:14): maybe now everybody in? without the Linn Drums?
T-Mobile-A(15:13): it's not the other group members fault, that you had to attack twice. strange arguments
T-Mobile-A(15:13): distroeyed the group
T-Mobile-A(15:12): yes, bad
T-Mobile-A(15:12): you did pace alone to get the points
Linn Drum Cycling(15:11): T-M-A what? Imp forced me to attack twice, now no riding with Zoer, half of the favos in escape and bad from me?
Wolfpack Cycling Team(15:10): I will not take tempo. My team come from Andes tour... my team is dead xD
Romoc Riders(15:08): funny how all the real contenders attacked...
T-Mobile-A(15:08): bad from Linn Drum
rsv lünen(15:07): Schappy? Tempo
O Imperdor(15:05): Teams not in tempo
T-Mobile-A(15:05): Lin Drum?
rsv lünen(15:04): blue in escape
OLcycle(15:03): maybe romoc if he connects asap
bergwerk(15:02): someone else not infront and maybe want help?
O Imperdor(15:00): Boas
OLcycle(14:59): hi !
rsv lünen(14:58): hi
bergwerk(14:52): glückauf and hello
Narrenparty(14:46): hi
Linn Drum Cycling(14:45): hoi
Romoc Riders(14:43): Hello
Dynamo Leinad(14:41): Hey all
Alive And Dead(14:39): hi freaks!
Schappy(14:33): hello

[flockmastoR]

So what you want to say is, me repeating (modifying) the T-Mobile-A "provocation" once and once making fun of it after the race is bullying you?

Don't know you at all (think we have <10 races together). If you feel offended by being called Linn thingy, I won't do it again (in fact I did it just once). But as I said in the FPC already your actions in the race are sometimes answered in the chat. I saw you doing your money grabbing once in the spectator chat (if I remember right it was you). Don't hide behind "it isn't forbidden", don't complain when people get mad with you. It's after all a reaction to your action as well.

BTW, I guess this is the much more relevant prococation:

T-Mobile-A(15:34): isn't Donkey your friend AAD?

But I don't know if it is a provocation for me or the donkey
PS: I put a smiliey here to make it clear it is a joke
PPS: Seems like I need to be super careful

[team fl]

If another member of the FPC wants to open a case, the FPC will discuss it in depth. In my view, this can be solved here directly (or by the involved players) and does not need an FPC "investigation":

Here is a common definition of bullying:

"Bullying is the use of force, coercion, hurtful teasing, comments, or threats, in order to abuse, aggressively dominate, or intimidate one or more others. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) that an imbalance of physical or social power exists or is currently present. This perceived presence of physical or social imbalance is what distinguishes the behavior from being interpreted or perceived as bullying from instead being interpreted or perceived as conflict."

In this case it would be comments in order to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate.

Is the term "Linn Dings" used once and the following chat history enough to be categorised as anything mentioned above?

For me, this is not bullying. Was it nice from TMA? No. But there are not just two states: being nice or bullying. From the definition, I think the following part is important here:

"This perceived presence of physical or social imbalance is what distinguishes the behavior from being interpreted or perceived as bullying from instead being interpreted or perceived as conflict."

In my view, we have a common conflict here, similar to many others in the game. Apart from the fairplay rules of the game, Linn Drum Cycling does not like TMA's and AAD's behaviour/comments towards him. And at least TMA does not like Linn Drum Cycling's behaviour (don't know about his comments). As you are all grown adults (at least I guess that), I am sure you'll find a way to solve this without the FPC. Thanks.

[Quick]

Lots of words to say, you're OK with provoking teams.

Could write this in more than one threads either...

[Schartner Bombe]

Lots of words to say, you're OK with provoking teams.

Could write this in more than one threads either...

I think "bullying" (harassment, bloody minded, chicanery, ...) and "provocative" (provoking, challenging, tantalizing, ...) are very different things.

[Laugenspitze]

Lots of words to say, you're OK with provoking teams.

Was my first thought.

One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) that an imbalance of physical or social power exists or is currently present.

That's exactly what it is about. Throughout the chat, not only Linn Dings or so.

My behavior? Malicious, inexcusable, unprecedented, condemnable "money grabbing". Ashes on my head.
(Normally that's not my thing, AAD. You don´t know me? Lauge, ogo ?)

But that is not an explanation, justification or excuse for bullying or, if you will, "not nice" behavior.

It would be mature to simply apologize. Sorry Linn and that's fine.
Doesn't hurt.

[Schartner Bombe]

Lots of words to say, you're OK with provoking teams.

Was my first thought.

One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) that an imbalance of physical or social power exists or is currently present.

That's exactly what it is about. Throughout the chat, not only Linn Dings or so.

My behavior? Malicious, inexcusable, unprecedented, condemnable "money grabbing". Ashes on my head.
(Normally that's not my thing, AAD. You don´t know me? Lauge, ogo ?)

But that is not an explanation, justification or excuse for bullying or, if you will, "not nice" behavior.

It would be mature to simply apologize. Sorry Linn and that's fine.
Doesn't hurt.

sorry, but "bullying" and "not nice behavior" are two different things too.
It's none of my business, but I have the feeling that the chat is losing its adult language? If you look around, every rabbit fart is reported on the FPC? Is this already the takeover of cancel culture?

[Laugenspitze]

sorry, but "bullying" and "not nice behavior" are two different things too.
It's none of my business, but I have the feeling that the chat is losing its adult language? If you look around, every rabbit fart is reported on the FPC? Is this already the takeover of cancel culture?

I'm sorry that your "FPC" case didn't turn out the way you had hoped. But what you're saying about cancel culture here is nonsense.

And bullying is no trivial matter.

I only used the term "not nice" because I thought FL was trying to smooth things over a bit.

But since AAD and T-M-A think they don't need to write anything further here by way of an apology, and "FPC" doesn't want to do anything anyway, I guess there's nothing that can be done.

If I were you, I wouldn't be surprised if only about 100 (estimated) teams are active here anymore. Probably (felt-like) half of those are multi-accounts.

If people are treated this way, they simply leave.

[flockmastoR]

There is nothing I need to add here. Will never call you by any other name than your actual team name in he future. But I will call you "money grabbing" if you do money grabbing actions. If you cannot stand opposition to your behaviour, it is not my problem. And I may ask you to stop calling my behaviour "bullying".

[Hansa]

FPC is reviewing the case!

[Weezel]

Serious?

[team fl]

FPC decided not to give a fine in this case. We also don't consider Alive And Dead's as well as T-Mobile-A's behaviour as bullying. Still, we want to point out that there is a Netiquette that is not written in the rules but helps the game to be attractive to play for everybody.