Ok, then I defend Taka.
But first have to admit that I have no clue what Kwick was writing exactly, meaning in what sense he was not defending (that part I get) but criticizing Taka. Second part still mysterious to me, if somebody cares to explain...
Then I fully understand that Kwick can't stand the willful misinterpretation of what he says. I can't either.
Next, since Taka clearly is involved here, might make sense to write in English, even the parts that aren't directly connected to Taka.
Now the defense! Disclaimer, might not be completely objective since (for reasons that aren't completely clear, but well, after all I'm nice, so maybe it's just that) Taka seems to rather like me, so of course I like him too!
Now definitely the defense:
Chense wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:15 pm
r TAKA(20:34): didn't really talk about your parents...even though they're to blame. when they had a shit kid like you they should've filled the bathtub with their piss and threw you to drown in it xD
This one above is in my point of view not only a insult, its more or less an incitement of violent behaviour. Lifetime ban - Short and easy.
This is just BS. It's not incitement to violence. It's an insult. Quite a nice one too, he could have gone for a simple "you're an asshole", but this is superior, flowery, with flavour.
But yes, it's an insult. A "Gewaltfantasie"? Pff, Technically maybe yes, but actually it's just an insult. "Hope your boss hits your head with the keyboard" is a "Gewaltfantasie" too. Is it far beyond a usual insult? Like the bathtub one, according to AAD?
flockmastoR wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:58 am
(which is, imo far beyond a usual insult)
Keyboard no, everybody would probably say. For me bathtub neither. It's an insult. A creative one. So let's drop the "Gewaltfantasie" label allthogether, since that just makes it sound bad, but isn't necessarily so. This is an insult, but let's not pretend it's something horribly bad, unexcusable, unforgivable, unheard of. That we're all shocked to no end. At least I'm not.
Actually in the context here... just the context of the chat, not the wider context of Taka (to which I'll come a bit later), this is even an undestandable insult.
Schartner out of nothing here, provokes Taka and AGF. Pointlessly. Taking a page out of AGF modus operandi. Provoke. In AGF case then the whining starts of course, he's the victim, Schartner hasn't been doing that here, good! Taka responds with an insult, the brain stuff. Don't get the FL asking context, never ask FL seems better advice, hihi, haha, Donkey provoking FL now!
Then Schartner goes English and German, then English for the 4 thing series, it somehow doesn't make much sense to me, provocation, but almost sounds like he was drunk to be honest. Multi provocation (which IMO is insulting to be accused of being the same guy as AGF) Taka's reaction is rather cool, you're such a weirdo after that is a soft and really not insulting answer.
Next Schartner makes little sense again, the "you are so uncreative", Taka with a spitting insult
Then Schartner goes back to German. Which of course in itself is not nice, the insult is IN the use of the language the other guy doesn't understand (presumably doesn't understand)
Until here... Schartner the instigator, Taka reacts with understandable insults.
Then Schartner with a more direct, but soft insult, the sausage. But really what he wrote before was insulting as well.
Then Taka with a problematic sentence. Start to believe in the human evolution from monkey thong. Thong? thing? This is wrong. monkeys have the same ancestors as humans, but humans didn't evolve from Monkeys! Same ancestors, different lines! Cousins, not parents! If that's what he meant, just wrote it incorretly, then I'm worried that he "believes in it more" talking to Schartner. There's nothing to believe in it more. The theory of evolution is proven, belief doesn't come into it. Anyway, that's the problematic part, the parent part is just another creative insult. After some Schartner whining "talk about parents, wä wä" he clarifies that the insult clearly wasn't to the parents as is somewhat implied in the whining, and doubles down. The oh so horrible insult. Which again, is just an insult. Then Taka leaves. While Schartner continues to provoke, but Taka stopped playing. Then Kwick appears and Schartner concentrates on him.
My brilliant analysis: Schartner provokes, he gets what he looks for/deserves, gets insulted, keeps at it while Taka after insulting has enough/better things to do/whatever, and leaves.
If we look purely at what happened here... I really don't even see why Taka would get a higher fine than Schartner. Schartner starts, Schartner keeps at it. Yes, to me, he sounds like he's drunk? High? No idea if he was. Also he doesn't sound angry, he sounds like he is having fun. Maybe I misread him completely, no clue. Just my impression.
Taka answers with quite creative insults (which I like, true, admit that, I prefer stuff like "parents forgot to upgrade" "spit on you", "bathtub with piss and drown" (here the piss makes it good really) to a simple "asshole" piece of shit" etc. and then leaves. He could show restraint and ignore it, of course, but should he? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
If you provoke, you look for a reaction, here we had both the provocation and the reaction. Why should the reaction get the higher punishment? Ok, made my point around 7 times by now, move on. But if you feel Taka needs more punishment, ok ok.
Next general Taka behaviour. Yes, he provokes, and insults too. So the provocation by Schartner here probably is answering provocation by Taka in the past. Safe to say Taka would have deserved some fines in the past, don't know if he got any, probably? But at the same time at least Taka is straight. He doesn't do the type of cowardly non-insulting insults others do. Or the evading like this for example
flockmastoR wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:58 am
Schartner Bombe(21:39): r QUICK: wie kann man jemanden auf Deutsch beleidigen der nicht Deutsch spricht?
Bombe of course knows the answer to this "question", part of the insult is exactly the change to German, then with translation tools... and if you don't know how to use them we still can get Bergwerk, our ingame professional translator to help.
Taka at least doesn't do this kind of sneaky stuff. He tells you in your face that you are a "sucker". Which he does often, and often he is correct too. Not always, in his afternoon excursion some of his designed suckers are IMO indeed suckers, some IMO are not.
And due to his directness he gets overreactions too of course. Like BW, Luxembourg it was maybe? Stage 1, co-favorite for stage BW attacks, AAD follows, Taka on AAD, Donkey on BW or AAD as well. Covering the suckers basically.
Both Taka and me. We ride, well me and BW AAD and Taka only 1? (No guarantee that all is correct) Then leaders left, BW rides, I ride, the 2 others don't. Which was ok, with the uphill finish and sprint values those 2 had the least chances. Then they joined, but BW blowing a fuse and not getting along with Taka then stopped after getting some money. And keeps insisting that Taka destroyed the group. IMO no, it was BW. Taka was in, with very low sprint I think, AAD was in, low mountain maybe? Their sucking before joining made sense, otherwise no chance against my star (Almirall, I'm still convinced he would have won if BW hadn't destroyed the group), But the fault is given to Taka mostly. While I happen to think that day he didn't do anything wrong. Yes escape and then won the stage. Yes, but if 2 co-favorites for stage, BW and AAD with Holiday-Cleverley (or ONley) and Drinfeld attack, 2 guys that are not unknown for attacks when they are co-favorites, then following them isn't really wrong. And then changing to riding in front, maybe only temporarily, despite lower chances, was even nice. Just an example to show over-reactions to Taka.
Taka talks hard, yes, but he also backs up his talk with his way of riding. He rides for his chances, he doesn't hide, he doesn't run away from his "responsabilities" (everybody is free to do what he wants of course, no real responsabilities). And he lets those that in his opinion do runaway, try to hide, know, what he thinks of them. You're suckers! Straight. Direct. No meandering insulting word salad, but the straight insult or criticism. Over the top? Yes, sometimes, maybe often, and sometimes managers that IMO don't qualify for the moniker too. But those that do, well, you can do what you want, attack every other race with your co-favorite, feel proud you had other co-favorites ride for you in the back all day and then you win, if you like it, then like it, but then live with criticisim. Suckers!
Taka and fines, yes, it's a festival waiting to happen, start it now with this? And a tough fine punishing him for all previous sanctioned or unsanctioned infringement to good taste? (The insults are creative, but also in bad taste, I get that, asshole is much better taste than drowning in bathtubs filled with piss even if in the end both are insults) No. Here a thread was opened, so punishment will normally delivered, there clearly is actionable stuff written here so ok, but looking at the whole exchange.... see above I mentioned what I think around 25 times.
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