December Tour 2023 - Rules & Discussion

[Robyklebt]

Hawaii winter race:

Very nice presentation, even if of course I would have liked it in the forum, no need to always open something else. But nice. Except that I can't figure out when the half stages are...? Ok, maybe find it this time around?

The race... 4 flat stages, but this could really be 1 in the end for flat sprinters? 1 has a 9 somewhere not too far from the end according to the info. Stage 3 had 3 km 6,6% in the climb 25-30 km from the end. Stage 4 a sprint, stage 5 is a pavé stage. So 1 sure, 2 difficult, that means that for flat sprinters it makes little sense to even show up, so a pure hill sprinter tour then. 3 stages, IMO could have been one more.

Mountain stages, the first one IMO is interesting, for climbers or can classics come back? Depends on the field, but interesting, the second one has a long climb.. what's missing is a multi mountain stage somehow. Ok, the terrain is what it is? After that it's mostly for classics, even if stage 11 could be the 4th missing stage for hill sprinters. Stage 10 could almost be a multi climb stage, it is of course, but a bit too much flat in between stuff? And the last one starts hard, but ends easy, it's a nice stage until the 34 mostly flat/soft downhill part. Ok, here with strong classics a huge coup is possible, the stage is interesting.
Still, I fear the GC will be decided early, with stage 8. Normally classics with TT should lose too much there to stay in contention, gaining back enough time in the following hilly stages seems highly unlikely. The big coup on stage 12 of course is tempting, but you really need to have the best climber and classic for that? Or be a tactical genius...

So in the end: GC for climbers with TT or with strong pavé team. 1 stage sure for climbers. 1 possible, 3-4 sprints for hill sprinters, 1 of these would be for flat sprinters. Rest escape, classics, some of the classic stages IMO very nice, stage 2, 10, others less.

Not really convinced by this entry, and despite the nice presentation in the end it's not THAT informative, percentages, mintact etc.

Next,

SEAT

Pictures! But not too much info otherwise.
Flat-flat-TTT-flat-HC-flat, (but probably hill sprinters?) rest day.
The first part of the Tour doesn't convince me at all. TTT on day 3, ok acceptable, but 3 what looks to be flat sprints that pose no problem for sprinters seem a bit much to start? And official sprint stage number 4 soon after. HC stage here is good, typical Malaysian stuff, hard to do more than just a long probably not too steep climb. Fits well here. Rest day on Saturday is nice.
SEcond part looks much better IMO. Still all rather unexciting until the final stages. Stage 7, is it steep enough for siebs? I suppose yes, since it's a middle mountain stage.
Then stage 9, nice, but really would be helpful to know how steep those climbs are, especially the last one. GC action possible? If yes, SEAT has excellent chances to get one of my votes. But since the information isn't there... sorry, potentially lost a vote due to lack of info here. Stage 10 then a pretty straight forward mountain stage. Stage 11 the 42 km and hilly TT, stage 12 is brilliant, made the best of the available terrain I think, very nice. Nothing flat from the climb that tops out at 143? Some flattish km on top, then really just up and down. Assuming it's siebable all those nice little up and downs. Assuming. Here the lack of info really hurt Hansa IMO. Not a fan of the first week, but the end is great. Maybe.. not sure what it is exactly, the info. Last stage 2, looks nice. No guarantee (that first week and a bit tooo concentrated all on the end, stage 4 notwithstanding)I would have voted for that with more info, but possibly I would, like this no, give me the fucking info!!!

Last and least, Kabylie Tour. Lowest rated tour by the leading rating agency, Team FL. No need to look too closely then, but couldn't resist, no matter how bad it is, I like to look it through at least once. And... this is not the worst, it's by far the best tour here. By far. And that includes mine. Can I give it all my 4 votes?

TTT start, I like TTTs as first stage. Simply because at c4f in later stages it penalizes active teams, it further encourages the usual favorite suspects to just send somebody in escape, money money, do nothing there, do nothing in the back, get some money. Etc. As stage 1 perfect, later due to our energy sytem, much worse.
2 flat stages, 1 would have been enough, but ok, 2 still ok. Then hilly, and 2 hard mountains and rest day. Very nice the mountain stages are nice too. Maybe flat-hilly-flat HC HC would have been even better, but this still is good, both the buildup and the individual stages. Only - is the mintact, Too short for my liking, but that's something that other tours have as a problem too I suspect, some just didn't write it down.
Second week is nice too. Hilly-hilly-flat-flat. Then TT with final climb, hard mountain stage. flat.
VERY nice. As I said, for me this tour really stands out as clearly the best, nothing else comes even close, and that includes Tamil Nadu&Kerala. Surprising, Taka's pavé tours never convinced me much, and I think he offered a Kabylie tour as Dec tour once before, don't remember that one being anything special. This one is, special, simply the best tour on offer.

Yes, little criticism, before Taka thinks he's the best (I praise only his tour, not him, it's probably purely by chance that this turned out so good)
TT a bit easier IMO better, it's good for the reg, make the winner have reg, but flatter and flat TT guys have chances.
Twice the not very challenging flat-flat combination.. .
Maybe having the GC stages right after another twice is too much? Reg needed, ok, but maybe doing it just once better? And have stage 4+6 as the early GC stages, to get more action?
Total 5 flat stages fits, they are all on the easy side, maybe one a bit harder would have been ok. But to get sprinters we need to make it easy for them, so works as well. Hilly stages seem fine, mountain stages are fine.

Very nice tour, looked at it countless times to see what I'm missing, why it's not getting praise from anybody except Taka (but he is clueless) so far.... but not mising anything. Trust me, this is the tour we all want to ride, most of you just seem to dumb to understand that. Often we have x tours that are all at around the same level, in my absolutely not humble opinion (not humble because I can actually read profiles) this year not, Kabylie Tour is by far the best, the stand out, the Donkey of Tours!

[Tukhtahuaev]

Completely agree with the Kabylie praise. No idea why it hasn't got more votes so far. Clearly my favourite with Tamil Nadu&Kerala second

[flockmastoR]

2nd Round Vote is finished!

Congratulation for the winning tour:

Tamil Nadu&Kerala International Bicycle Race
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9648&p=118694#p118694

Please share your prefered starting time. The tour will take place from 04.12.-17.12.


Runner-up tour is
Arakan Tour
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9648&p=118706#p118706

Please share your prefered starting time for the January tour that takes place from 04.01.-14.01. Also consider how you cut your stages to fit into the reduced stage race window.