June 2023

[claw]

strong preference for no overlap between dauphine and suisse.... would be nice to ride both

+1

[Robyklebt]

Dauphine done, but for sure you have to check and if something really bad, please Feedback.

Stage 1

Naming! Have the name of the tour in the name of the stage! All 8 stages

Not motivated enough to check the stages, if we did the Giro with some fantasy percentages, doing the Dauphiné in whatever way doesn't matter.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Couple of one day races done:

Giro dell Appennino. New course in 2023.



Heistse Pijl. Same as in 2022.



Brussels Cycling Classics. Same as in 2022.



Schleck Gran Fondo. New Race.



Aargau. Same as 2022.


Elfstedenronde. Same as 2022.


Mont Ventoux Challenge. Same as 2022.

[Tukhtahuaev]

Suisse done

[Robyklebt]

Brussels, as category 4 it should have 9 riders! (bolded it because it's the important part of the post, the text below of course too, but less urgent)
A bit late, sorry.

On the other hand the Limburg something the other day should have had 8 riders, it had 9.
You can't always trust the old designs, there in the end it didn't matter how many riders you put in in the design, the decision was made in the upload tool, so sometimes we had real designs that were planned for 7 riders in the editor, but since the rule was real race cat 2-3 8 riders, cat 4+ 9 riders, you just simply put that in when uploading it, regardless of what the designer had done. Fantasy races of course followed the designers choice. Real cat 1 races (the stuff in Croatia in March for example) usually was at 7 riders I think.

[Bright]

Is there any clarity yet if it's possible to ride both Suisse and Dauphine. I saw several in favour so im still hoping. just 1 ridable tour in a month is a shame as they are soo much fun!

[Hansa]

me as a team that normally rides all tours we can find is against changing dates of real races btw.

[Robyklebt]

Is there any clarity yet if it's possible to ride both Suisse and Dauphine. I saw several in favour so im still hoping. just 1 ridable tour in a month is a shame as they are soo much fun!

See this post:

Final PDF online with Dauphine 15-22 and TdS 9-19 based on majority of comments.

20/21 missing out despite good evening participation not ideal but Hansa the only one commenting on that. Lots of afternoon commentators, unfortunately less from morning and evening in general. Maybe they are less concerned because 20/21 people have no problem moving to 19 or 22, but even if that's the case, would be good knowing...

Anyway, good luck and have fun designing I am thinking of design statistics / rewards but not yet sure what to do because designers are just one group of volunteers in this game. Maybe improving the editor is the best reward... little time recently and as always me mocking around with half finished alk work not super easy... but will find some solutions, usually me trying to perfection alks work in the end leads to something good.

Then the final PDF, link in the first post or directly ingame from the calendar.
Once the PDF has been declare to be final, usually nothing changes anymore. So clarity really is there, change of dates.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Is there any clarity yet if it's possible to ride both Suisse and Dauphine. I saw several in favour so im still hoping. just 1 ridable tour in a month is a shame as they are soo much fun!

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Clarity is in the Final PDF. As usual published on the 25th.

Overlap remains because we had 3 vs 2 votes. Robyklebt, flockmastoR and CircleCycle pro-overlap. Bright and schappy against overlap. FL comment hinted at pro-overlap too but didn't count that because not easy to interpret the post. Claw was too late (against overlap). Hansa was also too late (pro overlap). But so even counting the latecomers remained 4 vs 3.

[claw]

me as a team that normally rides all tours we can find is against changing dates of real races btw.

whats the reason? realism?
so its okay to ride the giro with the wrong amount of riders, wrong stage lengths and what so on, but here is the edge?
since we dont have any fantasy-tours anymor,e the only option for this horrible month is riding fantasy one day races 1vs1 with free team?

gg..

[Hansa]

me as a team that normally rides all tours we can find is against changing dates of real races btw.

whats the reason? realism?
so its okay to ride the giro with the wrong amount of riders, wrong stage lengths and what so on, but here is the edge?
since we dont have any fantasy-tours anymor,e the only option for this horrible month is riding fantasy one day races 1vs1 with free team?

gg..

no need for 1 vs 1 becuase we dont have parallel tours

[CircleCycle]

+1 for a no overlap and changing the dates to give possibility to ride both tours.

3+3 or 2+2, no idea, 2+2 seems fine, if the tours stay on original date.

Would rather prefer to have a TdS afternoon edition instead of Dauphine.

Is there any clarity yet if it's possible to ride both Suisse and Dauphine. I saw several in favour so im still hoping. just 1 ridable tour in a month is a shame as they are soo much fun!

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Clarity is in the Final PDF. As usual published on the 25th.

Overlap remains because we had 3 vs 2 votes. Robyklebt, flockmastoR and CircleCycle pro-overlap. Bright and schappy against overlap. FL comment hinted at pro-overlap too but didn't count that because not easy to interpret the post. Claw was too late (against overlap). Hansa was also too late (pro overlap). But so even counting the latecomers remained 4 vs 3.

+1 for a no overlap, counts as pro overlap?!

[Gipfelstuermer]

+1 for a no overlap and changing the dates to give possibility to ride both tours.

3+3 or 2+2, no idea, 2+2 seems fine, if the tours stay on original date.

Would rather prefer to have a TdS afternoon edition instead of Dauphine.

+1 for a no overlap, counts as pro overlap?!

My bad, seems I read only "+1" and thought it relates to RKLs post before your post or maybe I just read "2+2 seems fine". So seems I counted wrong then... I know sounds stupid... but probably happens as I volunteered for too many things at once I might have to think about what I volunteer for because if I do it, I want to do it in a good way and not misread something...

So would 3 vs 2 against overlap have been enough to change it then? I dont know to be honest. Maybe yes because I asked for opinions. Maybe not because changing the real calendar should require a higher participation and clearer majority. But if yes, we would have needed to discuss HOW to do it. Many different ways. I suggested one in the initial post (half stage TdS) but I did not see expressed that this is the way you want it. Could also postpone TdS, pull Dauphine earlier, and many other possibilities... so telling me how to change it, would also help me to be able to change it, if you know what I mean, because in the end on the 25th I had to decide...

Anyway, I am honestly happy that you all gave your opinion... if it's like that in the future, it will help me a lot with the planning... I can not always make everyone happy... but I will certainly take your opinion into account. So if in the future there is a high participation and clear majority for changing some dates, I am open to do it. (Otherwise I wouldnt have mentioned it in the first place.)

[Bright]

@Gipfel,you are doing a great job mate and voluntarily so thats even more impressive, willing to spend your own time to allow us to play, thank you


Just some food for future thought:
What I don't understand from the real date fans, is why is it a problem for them, as they can just ride the tour that's on the actual dates. Say Suisse was actual dates and Dauphine was moved, they can choose to ride the actual dates one and the people that prefer both can just ride both.

Maybe next time the poll can be, which tour should be on the actual date, that way the purists can choose their preferred real racedate option.

Or maybe (but this is thinking out loud) it would be possible to do the Timetrial on the same day, but another hour. It would give a disadvantage to the "surrealists" but I wouldnt mind performing slightly less (as long as the prologue is first

Not for this month but maybe in the future?

[schappy]

Everything is fine. I vote for change the dates, but i know it is better how it is, you have to decide what you are riding for. Maybe, far far away you can ride both tour in c4f. i hope for it. but without false dates.

[Hansa]

i am against it because its a thing we actually advertise:

Cycling4Freaks - the #1 Cycling Manager
All races live! Against real opponents!
Day after day the real cycling calendar !

[flockmastoR]

@Gipfel,you are doing a great job mate and voluntarily so thats even more impressive, willing to spend your own time to allow us to play, thank you


Just some food for future thought:
What I don't understand from the real date fans, is why is it a problem for them, as they can just ride the tour that's on the actual dates. Say Suisse was actual dates and Dauphine was moved, they can choose to ride the actual dates one and the people that prefer both can just ride both.

Maybe next time the poll can be, which tour should be on the actual date, that way the purists can choose their preferred real racedate option.

Or maybe (but this is thinking out loud) it would be possible to do the Timetrial on the same day, but another hour. It would give a disadvantage to the "surrealists" but I wouldnt mind performing slightly less (as long as the prologue is first

Not for this month but maybe in the future?

I know it may sound exaggerated but where to draw the line. I always have 3 weeks vaccation in December, why not ride the Giro there? Is one day the line or are 2 days ok too, what about an entirely overlap of a 6 days tour? And if so, which of this real cat 4 stage races should move? If there are real important one day races also available in the month, why downgrade them by provide a real tour on a wrong date parallel to it?

For me the reason for the "real race on real date" politics is simplicity. No need to worry about those questions. The start page of the game says "Day after day the real cycling calendar". Realism would only be an argument if the teams could participate in parallel races (which always is and was an ongoing discussion).

So maybe I am wrong, but I can only remember having a strict "real race on real date" rule (probably different during pandemic, cancelation of races). If so, it would need a broader discussion to change that kind of long term rule. Additionally we should include one day race teams in the discussion, as they are also effected by it in terms of less participation with more non overlapping stage races.

PS: Also like the growing participation in calendar discussions and GIP is doing a good job, thx for that!


But if we start to move real races, I want to move each bigger stage race, such that the rest days are on the weekend.

[Bright]

@ Hansa, I understand. A question for me is: "does that quote actually make anyone join?"

I can only speak for myself. I joined because it's a cyclingmanagement sim. I stayed because of the nice community and the helpful players (thanks Taka, Romoc and so many others patiently answering all my questions)

Another big point to me staying is the fact you actually can make minute to minute decisions during a race, which I haven't seen in any management game I played.

That really unique sellingpoint should be advertised: In contrast to hattrick, buzzerbeater, maxithlon, gpro and so on, this game actually lets you make minute to minute decisions against only real people. So no bots or other crap either.

[Bright]

@Flockmaster, you have a fair point. Maybe my question should be different alltogether. I'd love to have more stageraces in the game as for me those are the ones I'm looking forward too. The one day races are nice, but the stages make it a real competition.

Would it be possible to create fantasy tours or perhaps 2.1 tours like the La Route d'Occitanie - La Dépêche du Midi so we can at least have more tours every month?

Making sure you can ride a tour at least 50% of the month. I'd be happy to help design if you guys can show me how to use the tools

[Gipfelstuermer]

@Bright, I had Route d'Occitanie on the list but it also overlaps with Tour de Suisse, so I didn't plan it for now. To be honest, June is always a tricky month because of this... And come 1st of July, the Tour starts so there will be 3 weeks of tours again

As for the race editor, we need to write a how-to / step-by-step. Then it will be easier to use. In the meantime, you can just try it out if you want. You can't destroy anything so just test it. Start with Profile Editor, then +, then either 'create gpx profile' or 'create manual profile'.

[claw]

just stop wasting time
if youre unable to evolve, accept the end
hardknock f*cking life..

[Bear]

I did not read every post in detail. But imo the easiest is to to have the real dates, everytime. no excuses. So no debates and everyone knows in advance and for the future. If you like it or not, we just have to deal with it. Every few weeks this discussion seems to be very exhausting for everybody...

[flockmastoR]

I did not read every post in detail. But imo the easiest is to to have the real dates, everytime. no excuses. So no debates and everyone knows in advance and for the future. If you like it or not, we just have to deal with it. Every few weeks this discussion seems to be very exhausting for everybody...

Additional to that, participation numbers is the thing that will change the offered races. If we have much more active teams, more (less important) real and fantasy stage races are also offered.

[claw]

I did not read every post in detail. But imo the easiest is to to have the real dates, everytime. no excuses. So no debates and everyone knows in advance and for the future. If you like it or not, we just have to deal with it. Every few weeks this discussion seems to be very exhausting for everybody...

Additional to that, participation numbers is the thing that will change the offered races. If we have much more active teams, more (less important) real and fantasy stage races are also offered.

You simply dont get the point.. this is not how it works but the opposite..
Make the game playable and players will come.
Right now, you just lose them again

Nobody plays this game for some bullshit f*cking fantasy races with 5 [reality even says 2] participants (yes, as you can see, obviously people dont even play these if there are no tours at the same time..)

[Carry Rhodan]

the unattractive one-day races are thus offered employee-friendly four sessions.
and the attractive tours, on the other hand, only have been given two sessions. so that many cannot ride them at all

was it intended to devalue the tours in this way?