Redesign Calendar Tools and Race Editor

[Alkworld]

Hi all,

as the calendar tools and race editor are still on some old server I don't have access to and which is running on a very old PHP versions, I'm planning to reorganize and move the calendar tools to the game server and include the tools in the game itself. So my main questions are how you're currently using the tools?

Race Editor

• How are you designing? Outside the editor, only importing GPX? Or more inside? Using any other file formats?
• Are you using the editor only for basic info like place names, intermediates, author and for small race corrections? Or is there more I'm missing?
• Is there any important feature missing currently?

Admin Tools
The calendar admin tools are even a different story. There, the idea would be to just build something new, which allows to

• create races from profiles
• do all the race settings like mintact, #riders, category, etc
• change dates / times, add / remove editions, etc
• anything important missing in this list?

[lennylenny]

How are you designing? Outside the editor, only importing GPX? Or more inside? Using any other file formats?
Fantasy race: draw route with ridewithgps, download and import gpx,
Real race: download gpx from Flamme Rouge if it is there, otherwise like fantasy race except also use roadbook to guide if available

Are you using the editor only for basic info like place names, intermediates, author and for small race corrections? Or is there more I'm missing?
check for weird km with recalculate elevation*
add race name, save name for race file
IS, KOM, amount of riders, mintact
start and end country,
designer,
type of race, stage and name of tour if it is a tour
for fantasy races or self-drawn real races i also use the circuit tool of the editor if there are any circuits planned/happening


Is there any important feature missing currently?
would be nice if you could not only search for races by their save name but also by the official race name for the palmares, sometimes the gpx name is weird and you forgot to change it (or only partially change it, make a spelling mistake, etc.), then it can be hard to find a race

more important imo is someone being able to change password or teamname for the designer accounts on request

* added to this question: more consistent elevation transformation, between 3 and 7m elevation on a km it looks pretty random for me
would like it to be more consistent, so that last digit of elevation 5m is generally rounded up
but maybe with an additional check: if two km in a row have last digit of 5 or higher have the last digit add up to 14 or less, the bigger of those digits is rounded up, examples:
25 and 48 elevation on gpx -> 2 , 5
57, 17 -> 6, 1
59, 68 -> 6, 7


for the Admin tools i remember Roby saying that it is an absolute pain to find unused Fantasy races and way too many unfinished old races and test races in there, so i bet he requests a better save/search mechanism and some delete option for races

[Robyklebt]

Race Editor

How are you designing? Outside the editor, only importing GPX? Or more inside? Using any other file formats?
Are you using the editor only for basic info like place names, intermediates, author and for small race corrections? Or is there more I'm missing?

Don't even completely understand the question... How are we supposed to design IN the editor? Coordinates..

Is there any important feature missing currently?

Yes. Import a gpx file (or whatever if others use other files) into a profile. Often races just change the approach to the finale, or take a minimally different route somewhere. In those cases a "add gpx file from km xx" would be kind of nice. Or a split screen where you can move stuff back and forth...you get the point. s

Admin Tools
The calendar admin tools are even a different story. There, the idea would be to just build something new, which allows to

create races from profiles
do all the race settings like mintact, #riders, category, etc
change dates / times, add / remove editions, etc
anything important missing in this list?

Now there are 3 tools, add 1 day races, add tools, make changes (incl. deletions) So the idea is to make something new combining the 3 into one?

Missing is: password. To avoid another disgruntled and obviously mentally unstable user to "have fun" sabotaging the game by adding and deleting races like OL (yes, it was him) did in late 2020. (And early 21 when he then deleted races during the race, until Luques then hid the tool...)
Then the search function in the upload tools now allows to search by race name and designer, filter by type (flat etc.)
Adding search by country would be helpful.

[Alkworld]

I've implemented a first draft of the profile editor in the beta version of C4F (http://cycling4freaks.com/c4f-2.0-beta/c4f-react/), feel free to have a look and provide feedback. Some remarks one the current implementation:

• the editor itself is only for single stages, putting those into C4F races (one-day, tours, etc) will be a different screen (yet to be implemented)
• the map that's shown will later be implemented in the race as well
• you should access the editor when logged in. It's available without, but just for convenience during development, I'll remove that button later
• I'm considering different states per profile: "Design": only the creator can work on it, "Review": discussion on the profile is possible (chat in editor), "Approved": C4F races can be created from that profile, only calendar admins then can edit the race
• I'm planning to migrate the already designed races to the new solution

Many of the issues you raised, can be easily addressed in the new editor, e.g.:

• user issues --> you'll just use the normal login, as it's in-game
• searching for races --> all can be shown on the first tab, with the usual filtering options
• adding GPX to an existing race is possible, but not done yet

[Gipfelstuermer]

Cool. Good start.

I tried to design "GP Faber", a real race taking place in Luxembourg on 26 March. Roby can add it to the calendar if he needs something around that date.

Questions
- What's the difference between Code, Project and Name?
- How is the incline per km calculated when you upload a gpx?
- How do I know if my race was saved successfully?

Errors
- When you edit a km, 'Height C4F' does not update
- I am allowed to clone a km, but not allowed to add a km as a circuit ('Circuit needs to start and end on the same height'). It's necessary for races, which take place on a circuit but do not have start and finish on the same line.
- Profile does not show
- Map does not show
- Cannot edit km anymore after inserting a circuit

Missing Functionality
- Deleting multiple km at once
- Editing multiple km at once (acceptable like this but always clicking on 'edit' can be annoying if you have to change multiple km)
- Reverse Circuit
- Mintact


Probably more later. Have a race now

[Alkworld]

Questions
- What's the difference between Code, Project and Name?
- How is the incline per km calculated when you upload a gpx?
- How do I know if my race was saved successfully?

- Code is the internal name (used for profile picture, in the database, the one you know from the old editor)
- current GPS height minus C4F height at previous km divided by 10, so it doesn't get off far. Climbs within a km are not identified, e.g. 500m with 20%, then 500m with -20% ist a plain 0%
- you'll not get an error

Errors
- When you edit a km, 'Height C4F' does not update
- I am allowed to clone a km, but not allowed to add a km as a circuit ('Circuit needs to start and end on the same height'). It's necessary for races, which take place on a circuit but do not have start and finish on the same line.
- Profile does not show
- Map does not show
- Cannot edit km anymore after inserting a circuit

- height is updated after saving
- cloning is basically the 1km circuit then, you can adjust the km afterwards
- bug due to upper-case letters in code
- click on Profile, then it shows, it's toggling map and profile (room for improvement)
- save first (then the recalculations e.g. for height are done)

Missing Functionality
- Deleting multiple km at once
- Editing multiple km at once (acceptable like this but always clicking on 'edit' can be annoying if you have to change multiple km)
- Reverse Circuit
- Mintact

- later
- more difficult, need to think about it
- easy, can do that
- mintact doesn't belong here, but to the creation of races

[Robyklebt]

Some of this for the moment is confusing the hell out of me.

I created the great race 123 with 0 km it seems, so well, yeah, haven't figured it out yet.

Early criticism:

-Tiny little window for designing? Look at the editor right now, compare it this new version. Working in that that quarter of 80% of the screen? Needs to be much bigger and even if it's ingame, IMO doesn't need all the headers. Cut all, leave a "back to game" or whatever button no top, that's it. Work space! Use the whole page.

Then lots of other stuff (ok, for some reason it seems I was too dumb to load a GPX file, when I try simply nothing happened, tried again with a new one, nothing happened again) but for later, just one thing that confuses me a lot...

- mintact doesn't belong here, but to the creation of races

? But isn't the editor creation of races?

[lennylenny]

Mintact is "designer choice" so should be done in the designing phase aka editor

[Alkworld]

Mintact is "designer choice" so should be done in the designing phase aka editor

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done by the designer, just in a different (yet missing) screen. The current screen focuses on the profile itself. And other than before, I'm trying not to mix too many things (profile / track and C4F race details), but keeping them technically separate. That way, it becomes easier to reuse the same profile for a different race later on.

[Alkworld]

-Tiny little window for designing? Look at the editor right now, compare it this new version. Working in that that quarter of 80% of the screen? Needs to be much bigger and even if it's ingame, IMO doesn't need all the headers. Cut all, leave a "back to game" or whatever button no top, that's it. Work space! Use the whole page.

OK, I can make the upper part collapsible (similar to the filter options on tables).

Then lots of other stuff (ok, for some reason it seems I was too dumb to load a GPX file, when I try simply nothing happened, tried again with a new one, nothing happened again) but for later, just one thing that confuses me a lot...

Maybe some bug, need to look in the log file then

[Robyklebt]

Hm, now managed to load a gpx file.

But somehow it seems not to want to load gpx files downloaded from la flamme rouge? The fantasy ones I desigend the track myself (plotaroute) work, the ones I downloaded from la flamme rouge don't.

On a general note: The editor in use now actually works quite well. (Unlike the uploading tools)
Now you mentioned technical issues that make it better to separate some things, no idea about that of course, but in general the new editior IMO should be as functional and easy to use as the old one. Right now it seems to involve rather a lot of clicking, scrolling (the old one was scrolling friendly too though), jumping from one window to another. Part of it surely is that I'm used the the old one, not to the new one, but the way it is right now (not finished, I know) it would definitely slow down designing.

[Alkworld]

But somehow it seems not to want to load gpx files downloaded from la flamme rouge? The fantasy ones I desigend the track myself (plotaroute) work, the ones I downloaded from la flamme rouge don't.

Maybe those are different and I'm still doing something wrong (only tried with an old GPX file). Is it publicly available? Then I'd download it as well and try that one.

[Robyklebt]

Here the link to the race I just did on the old editor, download GPX scroll down a bit, then on the right, export GPX

https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/520303

[Alkworld]

Here the link to the race I just did on the old editor, download GPX scroll down a bit, then on the right, export GPX

https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/viewtrack/520303

Worked fine for me, maybe the navigation was still confusing, there are still some minor issues

[Robyklebt]

I'll try again tomorrow, but earlier today when I did exactly the same for a .gpx downloaded from laflammerouge, nothing happened, when I did it from one I downloaded from plotaroute it worked. No idea why. Maybe because the file-name already exists in the database? (But it's in a different place, right?)

[Alkworld]

After some improvements, now version 1.17.8 is online in the beta version (maybe tomorrow for everybody), with more functionality built in (but still room for improvement):
- in profile editor, all the parts can be hidden to make everything else larger, see grey buttons on the left
- added filter for easier finding your races
- race editor (putting profiles together in a race, mintacts, race edition (= times)) is also improved
- calendar preview added showing planned races, including profiles, which should at some point make the Excel obsolete and all the questions before end of the month for detailed profiles
- everybody can create profiles and edit the own ones, everybody can create a race, but only admins can put them into the calendar

As example for a race in April, I created Pais Vasco as a shell and put in the preview as well, even before all stages are designed. I'll try to add more races soon (without profiles).
As I now have access to the DB of the old editor, I'll try to move some races to the new one, but that'll take some time. We can even even use both editors in parallel, as long as one race is only done in one of them.

[Alkworld]

One more thing: In the old calendar tools, was there a restriction that a race can only be ridden once? It at least seems so when looking at the data. That restriction would definitely be no longer necessary

[Robyklebt]

,

One more thing: In the old calendar tools, was there a restriction that a race can only be ridden once?

No, no restrictions.

But as I wrote in my long resignation mail, Luques asked that races be "re-saved" if used again or if they were old, older than 1 year. Something with old profiles possibly creating problems. No matter if ridden already or never ridden. There never were any problems finally as far as I know.

I then usually (not 100%) re-saved races that didn't change profile anyway, but saved under a new name (msr23 instead of 22, even if that was redesigned actually) made it easier to find them for upload (filter new and designed by Big D. and they were all there at once, instead of having to filter for each race with the name when uploading) and somehow seemed helpful to see the development/change/no change. But possible to race the same race, same filename x times.

Ah, about the GPX addition, one thing that really would be useful: oh, already wrote it, damn, ok, write it again. The ability not only to import a new GPX into a race, but also to transfer parts of the GPX from one race to another.
MSR 2023 a good example, different starting place, but from a certain km on exactly the same. Now I basically copied the important km by hand from last years file, if I could just mark km x to x in the msr22 file, then export, then import in msr23 that would be very useful. See Flèche Wallonne, different start every year, see this year RVV (Bruges instead of Antwerp start, but once we reach Oudenaarde it's the same (almost, almost, one repaired hellingen back in, the replacement from last year out)

The editor seems to be extremely precise compared to the old one, heights, good, excellent. Still would be sort of nice not to have to click for every km for changes....

Pais Vasco: If you're going to design it... please write that in the calendar thread! We risk double designs otherwise. As long as it's not all done, I'm not checking there all that often.

Lots of stuff that I don't get for the moment, (if I click on a km with a label, then click on others, all have this label? Even when I change race?)

[Alkworld]

I then usually (not 100%) re-saved races that didn't change profile anyway, but saved under a new name (msr23 instead of 22, even if that was redesigned actually) made it easier to find them for upload (filter new and designed by Big D. and they were all there at once, instead of having to filter for each race with the name when uploading) and somehow seemed helpful to see the development/change/no change. But possible to race the same race, same filename x times.

This won't be an issue any longer, as there won't be any complicated copying from one server to the other, from one database to the other.

Ah, about the GPX addition, one thing that really would be useful: oh, already wrote it, damn, ok, write it again. The ability not only to import a new GPX into a race, but also to transfer parts of the GPX from one race to another.
MSR 2023 a good example, different starting place, but from a certain km on exactly the same. Now I basically copied the important km by hand from last years file, if I could just mark km x to x in the msr22 file, then export, then import in msr23 that would be very useful. See Flèche Wallonne, different start every year, see this year RVV (Bruges instead of Antwerp start, but once we reach Oudenaarde it's the same (almost, almost, one repaired hellingen back in, the replacement from last year out)

This should be possible, basically copy & paste from one race to another. Although I think it won't be very nice. Due to technical reasons, it will have to happen in the same tab in the browser

The editor seems to be extremely precise compared to the old one, heights, good, excellent. Still would be sort of nice not to have to click for every km for changes....

Still thinking about a good way of doing that ...

Pais Vasco: If you're going to design it... please write that in the calendar thread! We risk double designs otherwise. As long as it's not all done, I'm not checking there all that often.

I'm only trying to show the functionality of the new tools and one important being: More transparency in the tool about who's doing what, what is done, etc. So now you can see that for PV one stage is "done" (only imported GPX and added intermediates), one started, rest open. For each race and in general, there's a chat, so maybe easier than aligning in the forum (but also not ideal, as you need to check the chat, if there's something new).

Lots of stuff that I don't get for the moment, (if I click on a km with a label, then click on others, all have this label? Even when I change race?)

That's a bug, will fix that, just a technical issue.

[Robyklebt]

Hm,

Have the problem loading gpx files from la flamme rouge again.

Am I doing everything alright?

Click on +
Create gpx profile
Click on a gpx file in one of my great folders
Open

If I do that with one of my gpx files from plotaroute.com, then the "detail" appears immediately (called it profile in the race, but meant the detail thing)
If I do that with a gpx file from la flamme rouge. Nothing happens.

Using firefox, usually updated...

Edit: Tried with chrome, there it works. So Firefox problem? And why only la flamme rouge files?

[lennylenny]

Had some error messages on flamme rouge gpx on old editor aswell, but that one still added the kms, so just ignored those errors

[Schnuggeritos]

I'm considering different states per profile: "Design": only the creator can work on it, "Review": discussion on the profile is possible (chat in editor),

Is there any option for me to delete an race I designed with the status "Review"? I think when I testes the tool in the beta version I switched from Design to Review by mistake and now I can't delete this one (Profile code 'snug01').

Suggestion: Maybe we can add something starting from the status "review". From the status on, the creators can set the status "mark for deletion", so that this is then confirmed by an admin.

[Robyklebt]

Trying the new editor to design 2 fantasy races, testing stuff too.

Comments, concerns, questions:

- What is the list for in Profile editor? I don't really see the point of it right now. Ok, you can hide it, but wouldn't it make more sense that as default you only see your own races? That's the ones you look for when you want to continue to work on one you started.
- It is very precise compared to the old one! Excellent. But of course might still need corrections at times, highest point at x.5km
- Don't see the coordinates, except in that window on the right. Not a big problem, but somehow like seeing the coordinates (easy way to see if you have enough points in your gpx file, too complicated to explain)
- Map? Thought there was a map at some point, not anymore?
- Naming the race? Why not in profile editor, now I have an ugly looking name there for the moment. Will see when and if I can actually name it later...
-Why doesn't it automatically take the filename I load for the profilecode?
-"classification", flat, hilly, mountain, TT etc. why not here?
- Any other info that was there in the old editor.. .ok checked. Nr of riders, mintact, don't really see the point in not having this all together?
- Length of race easily visible. Right now only can find it on the list or by scrolling down to the end.
- Dropdown menu for start/finish. Never ending scrolling, make it possible to write and it jumps to the right letters...
- Circuit: Why not possible to add after the last km? My 18km circuit, wanted to add it at km 19, had to do it at km 0. Like the warnings, height, etc.
- Adjusting, labels etc are rather annoying to do right now, ok, you're working on it.
- When clicking ok next show the km you are working on on the left too, right now it jumps to km 1 there, I'm at km 30 for example...
- Save button far away, and since you need to save to see the changes that's annoying. (This forced save not bad, with just recalculation sometimes then you might forget to save)

Now clicked start review...
Now I can approve the race, which I won't for the moment, no idea what it does.

Second race:

-ProfileCode: nihonmatsu_sendai. Could I have done Nihonmatsu-Sendai and it would have converted it automatically?
-Oh, that Zauberstab is good for start/finish country! Excellent
-Still not used to have the c4f height on the left and the gpx on the right, was the opposite in the old editor, but will get used to it.
-copy+paste works, good, Copy and pasted a the circuit from the first race into the second race, worked. Somehow a bit complicated? Can't find the race I'm desiging unless I leave the editor once and come back...
-Approved this one now. Nothing much seems to happen really. So from this point on it's admins that then work on it?


I might have some problems with parts of the process too actually, but later.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Good long list from RKL.

Explanations as far as I understand it:
- Map is shown when you click on the yellow "Profile" Button.
- You eventually name the race im the 'race editor' instead of 'profile editor'. This is useful for two reasons: 1) Ensure consistent naming of stages in a stage race. 2) Make it very simple to re-use old profiles. No need to re-save the profile.
- Classification, Mintact, Nr of Riders, same new logic: It's part of the 'race editor' so that you can easily re-use profiles, but can still change the classification/nr of riders (might happen if race organisations update their rules from year to year) and can still change the mintact (if new opinions from community or race designer)
- Dropdown not ideal but magic wand great to solve that
- Approval of Profile, told Alkworld it's not really necessary. Think should be enough of an approval when the calendar admin moves a race from "planned" into the real calendar IMO.
- copy and paste is a nice workaround until 'insert gpx section' works.

Therefore, the relevant ToDo's right now:
- Map-Button should read "Map" instead of "Profile"
- Default Filter for own races would be nice. I agree.
- Add 'length of race' to the Overview Fields
- Automatic Scroling to current km in the km table
- 'Insert GPX Section' Feature

Happy to add to that list.

[Alkworld]

Some remarks on all those points:
- race and profile separated, reasons as Gipfel already explained. It might however make sense to already set the mintact in the profile, as it shouldn't matter, if we reuse the profile, mintact would most likely always be the same. Other attributes can be different, e.g. number of riders, once we ride it with 9, next time with 6 riders.
- length of race can easily be added
- changing filter to show own races also very easy
- one remark on the magic wand: it'll only check km1 and set the country as start and finish. So in rare cases still some manual scrolling.
- inserting circuit at the end, I have to check again, thought this works
- I was thinking about the location of the save button, put it on the top, where it's never hidden. But also easy to put multiple save buttons on the page
- approving profiles is irrelevant now, because I haven't implemented publishing races to the real calendar (coming before April). That's supposed to be done only with approved races. For Approved races, editing should then be impossible in the editor
- taking profile code from filename is a good idea, will do so