Campeonato de los Andes 2022

[Hansa]

Campeonato de los Andes 2022.

Will we have it in the calender this year? I just guess yes.

Is anyone already the planned designer? I didnt find anything but also didnt searched long, so if someone already is planned as Designer and i missed that im sorry.

Otherwise i talked with Lenny and we decided we would like to do a Route for Campeonato de los Andes 2022.

But i cant decide that on my own therefor the question are there other designers that would like to design a Tour / or just some stages and we can coop. Or something else?

Dont know how long we should wait for answers till we start designing but i just wait for the same answers and if noone writes anything i simply start when i get bored.

Greetings.

[Robyklebt]

I guess yes too, despite having the same concerns as last year, but since the majority still wanted it, I guess the same this year.

Nobody decided, I have nothing to say about how you all decide who designs

[Gipfelstuermer]

I designed Andes 2021 (and a few other editions) and I would like to design Andes 2022! But you are lucky! I have no time for it

So maybe wait a few days to see if Gala or Tukh react (Tukh very unlikely, Gala perhaps?). If not, as Roby isn't against it, please start

@Roby: Off-Season calendar... I think it's normal that Andes design starts before Off-Season discussion... but nevertheless worth starting the off-season discussion, with FL? Last year you were pessimistic about participation, so basically against Pavé-Tour, Andes and even December Tour etc., if I remember correctly. This year more optimistic, so we simply keep the Grundgerüst for the Off-Season? Or some general discussion needed?

[Robyklebt]

I'm still pessimistic, but equally pessimistic about my exceptional common sense prevailing ....and since last year nobody agreed with me see no reason to expect anybody agreeing now.

So had no intention of bringing it up...

Last year Andes 7-7-9, so quite good participation.
Parallel, just checked Chelly.

2-5-4-6

So far from brilliant, how much better will it be this time? We'll see.

As for the off season discussion.... Nobody ever posts anything, clearly eat enough whenever FL feels an urge to post his always "off" preview Absolutely no need to pressure the middle aged man.

[flockmastoR]

I'm still pessimistic, but equally pessimistic about my exceptional common sense prevailing ....and since last year nobody agreed with me see no reason to expect anybody agreeing now.

So had no intention of bringing it up...

Last year Andes 7-7-9, so quite good participation.
Parallel, just checked Chelly.

2-5-4-6

So far from brilliant, how much better will it be this time? We'll see.

As for the off season discussion.... Nobody ever posts anything, clearly eat enough whenever FL feels an urge to post his always "off" preview Absolutely no need to pressure the middle aged man.

Don't cut the afternoon again, and of course I am pro Andes, even if I am probably not participating this year.

[Gipfelstuermer]

10 days passed, nothing from Tukh or Gala.

So we will have the first Andes edition designed by Hansa/Lenny ! Nice !

Let me know if you have any questions. Below the designing tips I once wrote down for Andes designers.

And one more thing... if you plan half stages... they might not be displayed correctly in the calendar yet. So maybe better not to have half stages... but of course if you really need it and want it, you can have half stages.

Most important tip: Keep the spirit of the founder of the Campeonato Cerro Torre RT: Extreme long and difficult climber tour with special highlights.

Extreme long and difficult climber tour
A) Usually min. 50% of the stages are classified "Mountain/HC" for good reason.
B) Usually there are some stages with up to ~250km.
C) Best rider type should have High Mountain & High Reg

Special Highlights (be creative!)
Can be
A) Dirt road climbs (like Camino de la Muerte)
B) Long TTT or ITT with special features (e.g. Mountain ITT or Dirt road ITT like on Salar de Uyuni)
C) pavè (like in the City of Valparaiso)
D) Super long climbs (like Cristo Redentor de los Andes)
E) Exciting stories (like visiting the home house of Nairo Quintana)
F) Exciting locations (like Galapagos Islands)
G) Some other cool ideas. Be creative!
But don't exaggerate. Not every stage can be a special highlights for 14/15 stages.

In addition, some facts:
- Normally a 16 days tour (incl. 1 or 2 rest days)
- It is fantasy but all roads should be real.
- Travel should be realistic if possible (so not too many flying all around South America)
- It's nice if you can present a map in addition to the profiles (In general, a nice presentation will be welcomed)

How I defined KOM and IS
Mountains:
HC-Cat.: 2000hm >=Ø6% OR 2500hm
1-Cat.: 1500hm >=Ø6% OR 2000hm
2-Cat.: 1000hm >=Ø6% OR 1500hm
3-Cat.: 500hm >=Ø6% OR 1000hm
4-Cat.: 250hm >=Ø6% OR 500hm

Sprints:
3 IS on Flat stages
2 IS on Hilly stages
1 IS on HC stages

Andes Design Tips:
- South America has bad roads
- Google Street View can give an impression for city areas
- Satellite Images (Google Maps) can help if no Street View is available
- Check road surface already while planning the route, to avoid bad surprises when doing the details
- GPS-Data for climbs is often imprecise, so should be researched and corrected if possible (A passage +6 -3 +7 can in reality be +3 +3 +4)
- Try to finish and present before October 31, for form settings

General Design Tips applicable to Andes, too
- RideWithGPS for building the route
- Having other websites for route building can help, too (some areas are better in other tools)
- Google Maps Satellite and Street View for checking road surface
- "Recalculate elevation" to make sure, the total height is correct
- No Downhill Pavè steeper than -2 (can cause bugs)
- No Pavè and KOM/IS on same Kilometer (can cause bugs)
- Race Name and City Name only use letters A-Z (special letters can cause bugs)

Some recent things from my last designs
- Be prepared for toxic players, who blame you for the race, no matter how good or bad you designed the race.
- You may want to leave December Tour contest to other designers this year. One year, I designed Andes and then I won the Dec Tour contest in the same year. Still feel bad about it.
- Something for smaller non-mountain teams can be good for participation. So some escape stages, sprint stages or hill sprint stages. But you can't have all of that... it's never going to be a balanced tour.
- Have fun designing! It's a lot of research, but you can get a really unique route in the end.

Anything I forgot? Just ask

[lennylenny]

Gala gave me private info that he would like to do Andes, but too busy to actually do it.
We already planned most of the stages (no half-stages)with ridewithgps, used your guide from earlier threads.
We could use a second opinion on the grade of a cobbled section, is that something you could help with Gip?

[Gipfelstuermer]

sure, you can always send me a PN (or I comment here after you presented the route).

[Robyklebt]

[Robyklebt]

Any news on how this is developing?

[Hansa]

Any news on how this is developing?

all stages done in RidewithGPS we will start putting them in the editor soon.

[Robyklebt]

I hope soon is very soon.

It would be kind of nice if people could see the route soon (meaning very soon), some might decide if they participate only after seeing the route. How much TT, how much "highlight", how much downhill, how many attempts to let hill sprinters a chance and all that stuff. Number of editions, when, where might depend a lot on that, on how many people want, promise to start at what times.

[lennylenny]

I hope soon is very soon.

It would be kind of nice if people could see the route soon (meaning very soon), some might decide if they participate only after seeing the route. How much TT, how much "highlight", how much downhill, how many attempts to let hill sprinters a chance and all that stuff. Number of editions, when, where might depend a lot on that, on how many people want, promise to start at what times.

half of the stages are already in the editor, should finish with the editor work in the next few days, then just the presentation left

[Hansa]

Campeonato de los Andes 2022

Hard, long, crazy

General Infos

2750 kms in 16 Days | 19km less than 2021
66913 HM | 877 less than 2021

4 Countries
7 Mountain Stages
3 "Hilly" Stages
2 "Flat" Stages
1 Pave Stage
1 TTT
1 ITT
9 Stages with Gravel
1 Rest Day

Key Higlights 2022

Stage 1 Pave in Cusco
Stage 2 Long Downhill TTT
Stage 5 9829HM and the legendary Camino de la Muerte
Stage 7 and 10 very long Gravel passages
Stage 9 41km Mountain ITT with Gravel at the Top
Stage 9 and 14 climbing the Cristo Redentor de los Andes
Finish of the tour at the Palacio de La Moneda

GENERAL DESIGN RULES

Mountains:
HC-Cat.: 2000hm >=Ø6% OR 2500hm -> Only Exception Stage 3: Cerro Maralinane as highest Point of the Tour (Similar to Cima Coppi at Giro)
1-Cat.: 1500hm >=Ø6% OR 2000hm
2-Cat.: 1000hm >=Ø6% OR 1500hm
3-Cat.: 500hm >=Ø6% OR 1000hm
4-Cat.: 250hm >=Ø6% OR 500hm

Sprints:
3 IS on Flat stages
2 IS on Hilly stages
1 IS on HC stages









The Race:

Et.1: Pave 199km-108min-mintact km184
On the First look it seems like an easy first day.
But with the Cerro Wanakaudi with a 10 km climb with 5.8% average
and 7 Pave Sections with 2**,1***,3*** its a really difficult stage for many Climbers.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden01

Et.2: TTT 43km-43min
Hopefully everyone was careful with their power on stage 1 because on Stage 2 we Face a 43km TTT
Glad it starts with a long Downhill after some Flat kms we will finish with a 8 km climb at 5.75%


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden02

Et.3: Mountain Stage 263km-175min-mintact km176
The first Real Climbing test and with 263kms already our longest stage. Right at the Start we start Climbing the Vulcano Pichu Pichu a long but not very steep climb, the last uphill kms we already face some Gravel. After the long Flat and downhill part we then start climbing Nevado Hipocapac, we then go on with some gravel kms till we climb the last kms to the Highest Point of our Tour, the Cerro Maralinane our first HC categorised GPM. We then Finish with 18 downhill kms in San Cristobal.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden03

Et.4: Hilly 164km-107min-mintact km114
Not an easy stage still finishing with a climb but short and not very steep. after 5 kms with 6% average we finish on a 4%. With 163kms the shortest Stage of these Campeonatos de los Andes.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden04

Et.5: Mountain 229km-145min-mintact km168
Camino de la Muerte... Road of Death long and steep climb up on gravel, and after you have succesful beaten the Camino de la Muerte you then have to climb up till the top of La Cumbre.
in total we have 9829 HM the most EVER


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden05

Et.6: Hilly 202km-111min-mintact km182
Today we face an easier stage with 202 kms its still long but not in Terms of Andes Stages.
The Choque Caine is still an hard climb and could give the Climbers the needed advantage to take this Stage. The stage will finish with 7 flattish kms.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden06

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________REST DAY__________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Et.7: Mountain 223km-150min-mintact km146
After the Rest day. On Stage 7 we have a 223 km Mountain Stage with some Hard Gravel mountains once again. The Alte de las Minas on 58 kms we face 2500hm with a light beginning we get an harder finish with some really steep last 22kms and also over 20 kms Gravel.
After some lighter downhill we then climb Cerro Altar starting light once again again with Gravel. the last 3 kms then get steeper with nearly 9% average.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden07

Et.8: Hilly 183km-136min-mintact km94
Hilly stage with a very light mountain finish 1 6% with 3 kms to go finishing on 3%,4%


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden08

Et.9: ITT 41km-41min
41 km 2414HM after a sligtly easier start the real climb up to the Paso del Cristo Redentor starts at km 10:
The Last 32kms 2000HM at 6.25%average with 9 kms of Gravel.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden09

Et.10: Mountain 215km-124min-mintact km182
We start in Calingaste and then climb up towards Abre de la Totora a Mountainpass in the middle of nowhere. A very long climb with 4 steeper kms in the end.
Till the End of the Stage we wont see any more civilisation.
Over 60 kms of Gravel we face here and a bunch of shorter climbes.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden10

Et.11: Mountain 195km-107min-mintact km176
Another Really hard Stage starting with a long and Steady climb. 74 km till we reach Portezuelo de Conconta nearly all the time Uphill. starting on 1665m we reach the Top at 4873m. A lighter Climb in the middle before we finish the Stage on a really steep climb with a maximum of 17% on the last km.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden11

Et.12: Flat 224km-122min-mintact km204
At Stage 12 we face a flat Stage, it will be interesting to see what happens because we dont expect many Sprinters at Andes espeacially still being here on stage 12, also Flat riders could have had a hard time till here. With Cerro El Calvario we still face a pretty hard climb with the last sieb km 70 kms before the finish line.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden12

Et.13: Hilly 205km-115min-mintact km180
After the Flat stage we have an easier middle mountain Stage. Some lighter climbs with Gravel during the stage and finishing the stage on Cerro Tencadan. After 4 steeper and then 6 flatter km we finish the stage on a 7% and 9% lets see if the Climber teams are fit enough to control here of if classics get a chance.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden13

Et.14: Mountain 164km-129min-mintact km70
The 2nd shortest Stage but one of the hardest.
3 Very Hard Climbs during the stage, with a couple of Gravel kms. Once again we climb up to the Paso del Cristo Redentor then after the over 40 kms downhill we Climb up the Los Bronces after another downhill we then finish on top of Tres Puntas on our 2nd HC GPM of the day.


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden14

Et.15: Flat 199km-112min-mintact km176
On the last Day we finish easy. with Cuesta Barriga we climb a small hill at the beginning of the stage. After that we finish with 163 flat kms.
Still possible the GC gets attacks here it depends on the remaining rider of the teams fighting for GC


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 022anden15

Greetings Lenny & Hansa

[Robyklebt]

Done, good!

Now the big questions:

-how many editions?
-at what times?

Last year we had 3 that actually had decent participation. Easiest is to ask people if and when they want to ride and decide based on that. If people of all 4 times seem eager, 4 times possible too.

So post your wishes! Don't forget to take into account the enormous amount of time needed to ride. And ideally post something like this:

"I ride!!!! (80%)
Ideal afternoon, 14 best, 15+13 possible. Can ride 9+10 too"
(Just example, 93% I'm not riding)

So not only the absolute best option but as many as possible. And tell your lazy friends that don't read the forum to have a look here too, and post their preferences. Actually even a "I won't ride!" is helpful.

In that spirit: No Donks.

[schappy]

95% i dont ride it

[flockmastoR]

Great work! Thanks a lot.

I will ride it 80% in the afternoon! 14h, 15h both possible. Unlike other tours, I cannot ride the Andes in the morning.

PS: Are we sure that the slight downhill pave+TTT works?

[bergwerk cycling]

"I won't ride!" 95% - the 5% at 14h/15h .-)

[Quick]

100% not riding

Edit: I think the tour itself is spectacular though. Well done!

[lennylenny]

PS: Are we sure that the slight downhill pave+TTT works?

There was no restriction about -1 and -2 Pave in the design guidelines, so i assumed it works

If we want to test it beforehand, Donkey could put the Arenberg TTT on the calendar for early november



Even though i designed this tour with Hansa i won't ride it as i don't have the team for it
Will instead ride early evening alternatives

[Chemnitz Pro Cycling Team]

Great work! I will ride it (90%) in the morning, I prefer 9 am.

[Robyklebt]

-1, -2 ok, would be a new bug if not ok.

[flockmastoR]

-1, -2 ok, would be a new bug if not ok.

Just thought about the +TTT part, but if you say it's ok, forget my question!

[Schnuggeritos]

This tour looks amazing. Great work!

80% that i gonna ride it, preferred time 9 or 10 AM.

[Hansa]

I want to ride, 19h would be ideal. 18h and 20h works too for me.