React Version - Race Screen

[Robyklebt]

I just continue making new threads for different screens, seems more easily "überschaubar" once more people write.

Very playable now, very nice. Not finished, but like it.

Slight complaints:

Layout: Better than before, but it looks very clustered, very full, but still takes too much place. As I said before, somehow having the top of the chat and the top of the race on your screen would be nice.

Then one thing that makes the old version so very relaxing after a day on the react one: COLORS! CONTRASTS.
I don't mind the white per se, but somehow with all that white everywhere it looks so hard, stressful, prison like. Even the jerseys in the race are not there yet...
Some more colors, even the c4f Buhmann blue would be ok.
Or, even better, unless you are either Giro haters or it takes a lot of time: Make the background rosa during the Giro. Yellow during the Tour. And add more colors or so slowly, jerseys, maybe having the different sections in a different color would make it look less clustered too, don't know. But rosa!!!!

[Robyklebt]

Colors, contrast is much better, good like that thanks.

Stuff I still don't like too much: Not really in order of importance

- It still looks crowded, don't know why.
- Scrolling, top of race and top of chat really should be visible at the same time. Cutting 2 riders shows the first line, cutting 3 shows 2, and IMO would be perfect.
- Own rider coloring in GC (etc)
- The tools, for hanging and helping, nicer than a drop down menu. And faster. And should be there in GC too.
- I think the GC shown in the race should be the virtual one. Having both in GC is very nice, but in the race I think the virtual one is more important.
- The sprint, animation. (I know that you know)
- Sprint, maybe put in lines to show where exactly the border of the road is... it's somehow not clear even to veterans like FL
- Yellow background for the Tour de France (I of course want the stuff that is white, but settle for the blue one)
- Thought a few days ago that the skills were too close together, no margin, that it looked bad, somehow now find it ok, not sure if something changed or if I got used to it.

All that I have right now, maybe more in the days to come.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Thx for feedback. Always helpful, even if sometimes unstructured or unsystematic. More feedback from others would be even better. Had received some from FL, free, TTV, others before. So that's good. I know, we haven't really asked for it so far... too busy with the huge ToDo-List... and we might not always respond immediately. But we look at it, as you see with several improvements over recent weeks.

So, some responses:

- It still looks crowded, don't know why.

Can you specify a bit? Something in there that's useless? Wrong order? Wrong colors/frames whatever? Need more padding? (but we don't have much space, so more padding/distances between things are difficult...) Feedback from others also helpful, if you also think it's crowded.

- Scrolling, top of race and top of chat really should be visible at the same time. Cutting 2 riders shows the first line, cutting 3 shows 2, and IMO would be perfect.

What is your device, screen resolution, browser and zoom level?
On my laptop, I can see the whole chat and the whole race table at the same time.
On my work screen, I can see the whole chat and the whole race table and would have space for another 10 riders.

More experience from others also helpful. Please tell us device, screen resolution, browser and zoom level and how much you can see from race table and chat.

- Own rider coloring in GC (etc)

Will come as we switch all the data tables (those that all look the same and boring but are sortable) to custom, sortable tables (like you can already see in Inscription page - Rider Table). Optimistic timeline: Will be developed during July and released in August.

- The tools, for hanging and helping, nicer than a drop down menu. And faster. And should be there in GC too.

The drop-down was a quick-and-dirty solution to give you something in the race table. We just don't know yet, how to do that with the tool in React. Remember that the tool provided lots of different functionalities. But why you think would it be faster to set helping/following? With tool: Click on Tool, Click on Rider (2 clicks). With dropdown: Click on Dropdown, Click on Rider (2 clicks). I think, will only be easier, not faster. Optimistic timeline: Will be developed in Off-Season.

- I think the GC shown in the race should be the virtual one. Having both in GC is very nice, but in the race I think the virtual one is more important.

Just because that's how it was before or a specific reason? For me, with the GC now it is easier to spot relevant riders in escape as you see how far they were in GC before the stage in (and not some virtual GC that changes every km).

- The sprint, animation. (I know that you know)

Yep... we know... need to ask for some patience on this. Optimistic Timeline: Will be developed in Autumn or in Off-Season.

- Sprint, maybe put in lines to show where exactly the border of the road is... it's somehow not clear even to veterans like FL

Some smaller optimisation of the chat could be done earlier. Optimistic timeline: Will be developed by in July and released in August.

- Yellow background for the Tour de France (I of course want the stuff that is white, but settle for the blue one)

Working on that. Optimistic Timeline: Well be released on Thursday.

[Hansa]

+1 for virtual GC showing totally strange to figure out how much time you can give or have to take back to keep the gc open. dont want to do math all the time.

[Robyklebt]

Lazy RKL back here.

Crowded, clustered: As I said I don't really know why, more space maybe, but as you correctly say we don't have that. Except to the sides. One thing, not directly related, and not only here, leave some little bit more space at the bottom. Somehow in some places I'd like to scroll down further but can't. But for the race screen crowded feeling, I don't really know why, just feels like that.

What is your device, screen resolution, browser and zoom level?
On my laptop, I can see the whole chat and the whole race table at the same time.
On my work screen, I can see the whole chat and the whole race table and would have space for another 10 riders.

Haven't managed to figure out the screen resolution.. ah, might try again now. Display size/resolution 20-inches, 1,600x900 it says on some website from 2012....yeah time for a new one. Edit 2 hours later: My beloved computer just died, so now on some old laptop where at 100% I see less, at 90% the same, but less side-blue so 90% ok
Firefox, zoom level 100%. Make it smaller and ok, but then sideways it looks annoying, half the screen there then is the blue blackground.
With chrome I think I saw slightly more, when I tested weeks ago, too lazy to test again.
I know FL has the same scrolling "problem", don't know about others.
Rest done, although don't understand the answer about the chat, but doesn't matter.

New stuff:
-Sprint without animation is weird, but absolutely playable, not problem. Much more important IMO would be to show the sprint skill instead of the race number (ok, then change hanging more difficult... both until hanging is done directly again?) IMO that should be done with a fast solution, before the sprint animation is completely finished/done. Especially if we occasionnally get a bigger group, checking who is who and where and the sprint is finished....
-The jumping of the sprint when you change something.
- Update the race when you write something in the chat. Chat spammers like me sometimes miss km when sharing deep and important information in the chat...
-The km-profile on the left. I think in flash it went automatically to where the race was, something similar would be nice.
-The map

Some obviously are less important than others here....

[Laugenspitze]

One thing, not directly related, and not only here, leave some little bit more space at the bottom. Somehow in some places I'd like to scroll down further but can't.

Yes, please

[Gipfelstuermer]

Lots of the suggestions implemented in the meantime, some more with v0.3.11, especially regarding the Sprint.

Still on the To-Do-List from this Thread, but all slightly bigger projects without immediate priority:
- Sprint Animation
- Tools for faster settings
- Automatic scrolling in profile and sprint
- The map
- Leave more space on the bottom (not difficult, but affects all pages, so we'll do it over time)

Another big project, but not sure if we should do it at all:
- New arrangement of race screen
Donkey playing at 90% zoom level. I usually play at 75% or 67% depending. Half the screen is blue blackground then, true, so there's the space we could work with. But some players like to view the game at 90% or 100%. Some players like to do something else on the same screen (watch the real race for example), so wider is not really better for them. If we think about Smartphone users, wider is also not better, but worse. So it's really an art to make it good for every type of user and device. They call it 'responsiveness'. We'll be working on it. Actually game looks acceptable for Laptop and Smartphone now, so it's already a small achievement. So for now stick with the same resolution and ratios. I think it is also some standard that React is using and probably they made up their mind about it before starting this standard for web development.

[IDF]

Gip,
A thing that i noticed : on telephone, during the final sprint i saw the possibility to change group ( i sprinted in several groups) but cannot access with my finger (it was too tight).
I used chrome. Before i could reach it easily but now, it's more difficult.

[Robyklebt]

Another big project, but not sure if we should do it at all:
- New arrangement of race screen
Donkey playing at 90% zoom level. I usually play at 75% or 67% depending

What is your device, screen resolution, browser and zoom level?
On my laptop, I can see the whole chat and the whole race table at the same time.
On my work screen, I can see the whole chat and the whole race table and would have space for another 10 riders.

Can you tell us why you decided that in your first answer you didn't feel the need to say at what zoom level you play? I mean if you're going to tell us how much space there is left you might tell us your settings, instead of having us wondering why you see so much and we so little.... IN context seems a rather important info.



Imagine you send a new version just to Alk
Alk: It's too small, can't read riders names
Gip: Oh, weird, I can read them!
Alk: I can't, bigger
GIp: Better?, Do you wear glasses?
Alk: Still very small, my glasses are ok btw.
Gip: Now it's huge, we can't make it that huge, what screen do you have, zoom level
Alk: 5% zoom.

See my point?

AS for the big adjustement, it isn't. Common sense says there is no big adjustment needed.
Easy solution 1) Make the table for the riders smaller. height. Cut 4 riders, and normal people with desktops at 100% are happy.
Possibly easy solution 2) Make the riders table adjustable, like the profile numbers used to be in flash. But maybe that isn't that easy to program. 1) Definitely is.

[Robyklebt]

Latest Updates (2022-08-21)

Show success of sent commands in race

What does this mean?

[Alkworld]

Latest Updates (2022-08-21)

Show success of sent commands in race

What does this mean?

Answer 1: It's time to refresh the manual, not much time here for doing that
Answer 2: The refresh button becomes outlined (white button, blue border) when sending any race-related command and becomes fully blue again, when the response has been received. That was the quick solution for the green acknowledgement message we had in Flash. Sometimes you barely notice it, as it can be quite fast.

[Robyklebt]

Not sure if you're working on c4f right now, or if it's a normal problem. Or if it already has been mentioned.

Watching a race (don't do that much, so maybe it's normal, just never happened to me yet)
I click on a team. Then close the popup. The spectators chat is gone. REload race. Blank page.

[flockmastoR]

Not sure if you're working on c4f right now, or if it's a normal problem. Or if it already has been mentioned.

Watching a race (don't do that much, so maybe it's normal, just never happened to me yet)
I click on a team. Then close the popup. The spectators chat is gone. REload race. Blank page.

It's a known problem, but thx for mentioning it.

[Gipfelstuermer]

New stuff:
-Sprint without animation is weird, but absolutely playable, not problem. Much more important IMO would be to show the sprint skill instead of the race number (ok, then change hanging more difficult... both until hanging is done directly again?) IMO that should be done with a fast solution, before the sprint animation is completely finished/done. Especially if we occasionnally get a bigger group, checking who is who and where and the sprint is finished....
-The jumping of the sprint when you change something.
- Update the race when you write something in the chat. Chat spammers like me sometimes miss km when sharing deep and important information in the chat...
-The km-profile on the left. I think in flash it went automatically to where the race was, something similar would be nice.
-The map

1 implemented since a while

2 and 4 improved with v0.5.3, even though feedback would be helpful. Probably it is not yet perfect.

3 is still an issue for 'spammers' like you? Just to check, because I don't remember if we changed something there already or not.

5, I am missing the map, too,... but remains low priority for the moment.

[Robyklebt]

Well, if you had the revolutionary idea of actually writing down what you did and what not... who knows, you might know what you did. And if you even posted it in the forum, how convenient would that be?

But no, secrecy above all it seems.

No, you didn't change anything.

[Gipfelstuermer]

More than 200 issues are being tracked on a Kanban board, more than 100 done, and both numbers are growing constantly, so it would be nice not to judge by the few issues not written down immediately and not perfectly tracked.

[Robyklebt]

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=9148&p=113209#p113209

Well, when it comes to informing your "underlings", the general players the few issues are actually quite a few.

[team fl]

I see messages in the C4F News about the development and new improvements. Don't know if these messages show all improvements, but it is pretty up to date, no?

Just before you start a meta-discussion about secrecy and communication .

[Robyklebt]

Yes and they disappear after a while...
A forum post over there really can't hurt that much.

Of course there no details, which would still be better, meta discussion, think about the volcano! Like now they are sometimes scrambling for old information their successors in x years might be happy to know what how when why etc too.

But updated like now is clearly better than nothing.

[Robyklebt]

Here 2 things that IMO should be high priority (other things there too, but lower priority)

- Sprint, following. Right now it can be highly stressful to change your following since you get a huge list if it's a mass sprint. And with riders sometimes not following the guy they are following on the screen when the sprint starts..... Plus when there's 2 riders with the same name, who is the one you want to follow? So while I realize that it's probably a pretty complicated thing, would be nice to have the click on screen back for the sprint.
- In race: Put in following from GC tab. Why? 1) It was there in flash, so mandate 2) It's useful when putting in following, sprint, mountain, etc, used to do that often from that tab, you have all the 90 sprinters above your 88 guy, can chose from there and click, now need to go either to tactic or to the race screen again.

[Gipfelstuermer]

- Sprint, following. Right now it can be highly stressful to change your following since you get a huge list if it's a mass sprint. And with riders sometimes not following the guy they are following on the screen when the sprint starts..... Plus when there's 2 riders with the same name, who is the one you want to follow? So while I realize that it's probably a pretty complicated thing, would be nice to have the click on screen back for the sprint.

Et voila! The long wait is over! Follow-on-click is here!

Some testing and feedback required. Let us know what you think

[Robyklebt]

Suggestion:

Change this in sprint click thing again please. I happens too often that a sprint settings is deleted because you click once too much. That's not needed. First click on your rider should change nothing, just chose your rider. The second click should determine the rider you want to follow. If you don't want to follow anybody, that's easy to set in the scroll down menu above the sprint animation (isn't really an animation, more like a freeze frame). No need to make the clicky thing troublesome for that.


PS: Big Donkey forced me to write that. I refuse to be responsible for any negative development out of this suggestion....

Now he steals my white secret message method? And even worse, to write libelous stuff, I didn't force anybody, it maybe was the infamous Robygang, but not me

Donkey answers FL's post in another section here, and fully supports his quest for a change!

The take out following in the sprint actually doesn't serve any sensible purpose. In what situation would you need it? Change following, no need to unfollow first. Sprint, no need to unfollow first. Trick sprint? Sensible I said, and even if some confused people regard it as sensible, unfollowing without following somebody else still doesn't make sense.

So no positive coming from having this click to unfollow.

But negatives, it has happened to at least 3 guys, Bergwerk, Big Donkey, Team FL, but I suspect many many more. We all know at 450 sometimes you are not following the guy you are following on the screen.. .safety following, ah, now you unfollow. Nervous, double click, ah, you unfollow.

Just take the unfollowing click out, it serves no purpose.

At the same time, make it impossible to follow somebody in another group, has happened too. Bergwerk of course, but could happen to anybody, click, think, decide not to change/forget to click/whatever, go to the next group, click on your own rider, and oops, the guy in the group ahead (or behind) now follows his teammate in another group.

That's for the sprint, for the rest I'm actually very happy with the implementation, it's not moving, don't care, low priority IMO. Interesting to speculate sometimes what exactly happened why x is now where he is and not where you wanted him to go.

But these 2 clicking issues above should be corrected.

Further stuff for the race screen:

-Following possible in the GC tab! It was possible in flash, no reason it shouldn't be here.
-GC, when you sort by something else, do the numbering in the first row too. Not the starting numbers or whatever it is now, I click on sprint, I want to see that Rrurrambu is the 11th best sprinter, not his starting number. Same for virtual GC etc etc.

THink there was something else, but temporarily can't remember, will do a drive by posting again sometime in the future.

[flockmastoR]

Unfollow click is really annoying. Even more annoying as there is no way to "cancel" your rider selection click. Same issue is there in the regular race tab, but there (unlike in the sprint) you can just click on the rider to follow/help again (here he doesn't unfollow).

Nobody needs the unfollow feature in the sprint, rather you switch wheel or you start sprinting. If you need unfollow you still can do it in the drop down menu thing.

Add a rider selection cancelation (in flash this was done by pressing "ESC").

[Schartner Bombe]

was irgendwie noch fehlt zur flash-version:

die fahrerstrasse mit den gruppen vor dem etappenprofil. würde ich super finden. da sehen die ausreisser auch ma ldas eigenen trikot.
weiß nicht genau wie das heisst - aber im liveticker ist es bestandteil bei den GT.

[Robyklebt]

I'll try to be more active complaining again from now on.... I start from the race screen:
After all now we want perfection, not just playable.

Sprint: Not moving, didn't mind, now at least in the replay they are moving, nice too. Will that come in the live sprint too (I actually don't mind the guessing why and how somebody is back, kind of fun, but of course moving better) 1 question: Is it good too have the replay available during the sprint? Takes concentration and memory out of the sprint in some cases, you can just go and check if rider xy already spent energy or not... but only a question, and a minor one at that)
More important: Take the "take the followin away" action away. Again, it serves NO purpose, 0, (and if it serves one somebody tell me please) the only effect it has is managers taking the following off by mistake. (I assume it's still there, wanted to check today but forgot. (It's when you click on your rider then the one you want to follow, if you already follow him it takes the following out)

More tactics:
1) Tempo when dropped, then I think under "until" you can put in until when... would be easier to have it together like before really. tempo when dropped until peloton etc.
2) Maybe delete the "action" button all together and put it under tempo in the normal tactic menu. I still never find it within 30" when I want to use it right now, drop back etc. Yes yes, getting used to, in another 6 months maybe ok, but why is there a need to get used to it when it could just be done like it was before? in the normal tactic menu under tempo.

Map
Right now not technically in the race screen .. click on profile, then in the popup. Put it back to the race screen and show us where we are too. Where, how... for example next to it a "map/profile" button, like the weatherforecast one, that just changes from

GC Tab
Make it possible to follow there too. It was possible in flash, which alone really is enough to have it in react too. But also it just makes sense, I for example used it often, now sorting the race tab is much more annoying. Put it back in!

Numbers/Numbering
Sort the GC tab with anything but GC and you get the riders start numbers instead of 1-2-3. Which IMO doesn't make that much sense, nobody cares about the race number, but knowing if my classic is number 8 or 11 while not being something necessary is still nice to know.

Filter
Used to be possible to filter the riders, both in race and GC I think. Should still have that possibility. Yes, control F for names, but what if I want to filter other stuff? (I'll have more to say about filters in other places, but can already say that in general I don't like the new filter at all)

Weather
More for the future, of now use right now I guess, but not only tailwind/headwind/sidewind, but also the direction like in the forecast, Northeast etc. shown without a click. I assume the weather still has a bit of randommness in it? Doesn't exactly follow the real weather, just roughly?

As I said, now we're going for perfection.

Think forgot something, should start taking notes....