RSF Forum opening

[Buhmann]

Okay, new:

Official
Fairplay
Bugs
Race Organisation
Newbie

RSF-Racess
Team presentations

English Area
German Area
French Area

[Robyklebt]

Okay, new:

Official
Fairplay
Bugs
Race Organisation
Praise Roby
Newbie

RSF-Racess
Team presentations

English Area
German Area
French Area

Ok ok, you just want to split the technic so that I'm confused and don't know where to write anymore. I'd have put it on top, but ok, you're the boss....

Why the "english/german/french" order? Either alphabetically, E/F/G or D/E/F if you insist, or order of arrival, G, F, E (not here yet) or order of quality of posts, F, E, G... but E G F makes no sense at all.

[Buhmann]

Ordered by users who will use the forum. But before i ordered it "English, French, German". So you see that is random at the moment

[Luna]

Good forum. Don't change.

[Robyklebt]

Mmh, why don't you add some more useless stuff to the "Deutsch RSF Bereich"? It seems a bit short now and everything is really filled up. Stuff like RSF Rennen, maybe split that? RSF Rundfahrten and RSF Eintagesrennen. Or maybe even per category. RSF Rundfahrten Kat 1. Feld 1. Then Kat 1 Feld 2, Kat 1 Feld 3. And so on..

Or the other way around, there really is a lot of useless categories there..

-RSF Rennen for example has exactly 3 threads. And none of them is really interesting.
Is it really needed there? I don't think so, delete it.
- Rennkalender? For me was the main reason to get 1 forum, no more checking in different places to see what's done and what not. Kill it.
- Teams und Fahrer? Mostly it has threads about names, deleted by the nations committee. Here: 1) have you finally managed to put the ingame link to the correct forum? Occasionally we still had people posting in the old forum since the link pointed there. 2) The nations committee stuff should be in one place, English part (since you insist on english and not multilanguage) if that is gone, is teams und Fahrers in German really needed?

etc. etc. BAsically right now we have a huge German part that is... not really used.

[Robyklebt]

LESO

New poster on the old french forum, no idea how he ended up there, but probably somewhere there is an old link to that forum.

[Buhmann]

Mmh, why don't you add some more useless stuff to the "Deutsch RSF Bereich"? It seems a bit short now and everything is really filled up. Stuff like RSF Rennen, maybe split that? RSF Rundfahrten and RSF Eintagesrennen. Or maybe even per category. RSF Rundfahrten Kat 1. Feld 1. Then Kat 1 Feld 2, Kat 1 Feld 3. And so on..

Or the other way around, there really is a lot of useless categories there..

-RSF Rennen for example has exactly 3 threads. And none of them is really interesting.
Is it really needed there? I don't think so, delete it.
- Rennkalender? For me was the main reason to get 1 forum, no more checking in different places to see what's done and what not. Kill it.
- Teams und Fahrer? Mostly it has threads about names, deleted by the nations committee. Here: 1) have you finally managed to put the ingame link to the correct forum? Occasionally we still had people posting in the old forum since the link pointed there. 2) The nations committee stuff should be in one place, English part (since you insist on english and not multilanguage) if that is gone, is teams und Fahrers in German really needed?

etc. etc. BAsically right now we have a huge German part that is... not really used.

Can you remember my suggestion for a few weeks? I would prefer to integrate this.

Ah, this one:

Official
Fairplay
Bugs
Race Organisation
Newbie

RSF-Races
Team presentations

English Area
German Area
French Area

[Robyklebt]

Yes yes I remember that one... .wasn't fully convincend, but ok, let's play and hide my message to Leso, bah... at least tell Leso to look for a link to the old french forum But I have no clue where..checked a bit in the french version but...maybe link for newbies or nations committee?

But ok:

Official: Ok, clear.
Fairplay: Ok, clear. I hope then no more in the languages part
Bugs: Ok, clear, see Fairplay
Race Organisation: Ok, clear. Same deal I hope, no more in the languages part.
Newbie: Mmh.. why? Wouldn't that be one that maybe is better in the languages part? Ingame link to a mentor thread, depending on the language you chose to that language.

RSF-Races: Ok, good.
Team presentations: Mmh, that's one I personnally would like to see in the languages part. Instead of having a big mix of english, german, french, italian, dutch, chinese, mongolian and bavarian, have it in languages. So the francophones that are uneducated and don't understand the world language Bernese know that they can just ignore the Bernese language part on not click on that. Same for the Germans that speak no french.

English Area: ok, what's in it?
German Area: Ok, what's in it?
French Area: Ok, what's in it?

Missing:

Italian part: Ah, so you are anti Italian? I'll tell Aux!!!!!!
Technic: Suspect you want to put one each in every language part. I still say put one on top, then a separate one in the language parts except english. To make it clear that as much as possible shoud be written in English there, that that's the main one. Right now we are almost at the point where everything is in German anyway... if you put 3 (or 4 if you add Italian) at the same level, it will never become better. And one of the advantages of the new forum should be that not only the germans, but also the french, Italians, Belgians and those anglosaxons too can follow the discussions, new ideas, see the reasoning behind the developments etc. By putting all at the same level you just encourage everybody to write in his own language. Which is ok for those that can't write english that well, but as much as possible should really be on top.

RSF riders and teams: That's one topic that is very international too. The german version is basically empty. Or full of shit. The french version doesn't even exist. IMO it would go in nicely right under RSF Races. (Is that a Multilanguage part?)

A central "nations committee thread somewhere. Not sure where, just know that if I was still in the committee it would piss me off to have 3 or more different places to check. Not sure if it fit's somewhere on top, or in the rider and teams part... just one central place would probably be good.

So my much superior counterproposal is:


Official
Fairplay
Bugs
Race Organisation
Technic

RSF-Races
RSF teams and riders (incl. a nations committee thread, the rest just for country threads, statistics etc. maybe rename it to make it clearer)

English Area (incl a newbie area, team presentation, etc. basically the same as now without RSF Team and Riders)
German Area (inl technik part team presentation etc. but without fairplay, bugs, Rennkalender)
French Area (see german area)
Italian Area (see German and French Area, plus a Pizzeria)

[Buhmann]

Hmm. The forums on top should be multilanguage parts, means that you can write in that language you want.

And then i see problem at the technic forum. Good discussions are not possible if you are not able to understnad some posts. But i can understand your argument, that in that way everybody will only speak in his preffered language. I don´t know what´s the best solution is. But i think on top should be only these parts, where is not a big problem if everbody write in his language.

[Buhmann]

Okay, totally offtopic...but i´m away from friday until sunday. So i´m not able to answer for these days PNs and so on.

[NoPikouze]

I'd like to complain about the forum organisation

Having several times the same bug/race/technic parts is just confusing.
And especially for the race parts, it's excluding everyone who doesnt go in the german (or french) part. Some cunning plans could be made and the victim would not be able to see it!
Even the bug part, why not simply post it in your own language in one and the same part of the forum? (it's already done by some guys anyway, cut the german/french parts!) Or the transfer market reform, being discussed mainly in the german part...

So I want to suggest (being telepathically controlled by an evil worldruling monkey) a simple thing Make it a MULTILANGUAGE forum for news/technic/bugs/calendar/fairplay and everything else you want. As i said, it's already used this way by some guys, it's not a problem, but the topics in the national forums, they are a problem.

Result will bess different forums to watch, easier for everybody to find the right topics, less double topics, quicker surveilance of the bugs: it will be an improvement for everybody. Simple, easy and better.

Keep the "national" parts only for the things which don't concern everybody. Off topic and I'm new, keep it national. Team presentation, real cycling ? Dont care. Technical questions, explanations ? National.

[Buhmann]

What means "Multilanguage forum"? The language everybody want to speak? Only english? If you mean the first thing, they are some problems. Allready thought about that. I worry that only people who are able to speak english will use the forum. Bugs, Fairplay, Races could be in a multi-language forum. But technical discussion not really. My opinion.

[Zauberlehrling]

I see it like you... but the problem is really, that there are three "technic" parts, and there are sometimes the same discussions in two different parts of the forum.

I don't know if it's possible, but I'd like it this way:

Just one "Technic" forum, then the Monitor is splint into three parts like that:

English topics

--------------------------------------------------

French topics

--------------------------------------------------

German topics

So there is just one Technic part, then every language has not a whole Forum, but a third of a Forum... perhaps not possible with the forum software, but I'd like it this way

[Luna]

Sometimes it happens that a technical discussion starts in one of the non-english parts of the forum. For whatever reason. But as soon as a discussion appears to be meaningful it will be brought to the international part. At least that's how we german speakers try to do it, as seen now with the transfer market topic.

As for the tactical exchange of informations.. well, I have no idea. Perhaps it's a bit like Fabian Wegmann and Karsten Kroon talking business in an escape group while Marco Marcato and Luca Mazzanti don't understand a thing. They only see that they are talking and have to draw their conclusions of it.

[Robyklebt]

Agree on fairness, bugs, ONE
Technic: Buh likes it everywhere... ok.. Can agree. 90% of the opened threads in the german technic part are complete and utter bullshit anyway. Less people being tortured is good, if it's important somebody like ZL will transfer it.

Races: 1: WE need to learn to include everybody, not always exclude somebody

Right now it's:
Thread in the english forum. The non english speakers, which exist, are excluded, They don't even check probably, don't understand. And if they check and post in German they have some french/Italian/something coming, not even in the race normally, that tells them that they shouldn't post here. Non english speakers excluded
Thread in the German forum: The non german speakers are excluded. And while it hasn't happened in the last german race thread, it will happen that when somebody like Aix posts something in english, a only german speaker will tell him not to write in english, it's the german part. Non German speakers excluded.
French part doesn't have the race thread tradition the Germans have, so not much going on. They have more general TOUR threads, everybody posts a bit, but not much.

So, solution is obvious. Don't exclude anybody. HOW?
Race threads: MULTILANGUAGE. Everybody adapts, try not to exclude anyone. Very mixed group, gets difficult maybe, we might have german post followed by 1 french and one english, but the ones that don't understand can use a translator, the ones that speak 2 or more can answer in 2 or 3 languages, depending on how important they think their post is generally.... Example: Tour with Psychopathen( only German) a french that speaks only french . I write something, basically to Psycho. i'll write it in German. Criticize his tactics. Something about the race in general. English, but if there are x Psychos and/or x frenchs I might do a main english short german/french thing. Something with the french guys mainly. Only french.
Allow other languages in the race part that is english now. Stop segregating it into german/english/french. Because then why shouldn't Allagen make a german thread for a race? Excluding Aix, OL and maybe other in his race? If he does it in the english part he excludes others, those that don't speak english (not sure there are any in that particular race) Why should Aix and OL be more valuable? Why should they be less? So we have to make 2 (3) threads if we actually want to discuss with both Aix and Psycho/Ruhr/Recien (ok, forget brown boy recien) etc? Of course having parts in languages they don't understand is not inviting for many, but if you want the discussion to the effort. Plus anyway, the newest theory making the rounds in the RSF sphere: It was so better in the german forum is... bullshit. The german race threads in the end were as empty as the english ones are since we moved here. My team, 1-9, not much more. But of course the results from every stage posted in the press section, doesn't matter if it was first or 118th. Want to discuss, discuss, make an effort.

one multilanguage racethread, not 2 segregeted racethreads.

[NoPikouze]

Yes by multilanguage I mean everyone posts as he wants/can.
Of course english is more convenient, but for those who don't speak english, well they can post in whatever dialect they want.

Maybe you guys are right about the technical discussion. Not the most important.
As Luna said, when people are discussing about a race, even if you don't understand, you should be able to see it and get your own conclusions.But when it happens in the german or french forum, the other guys will probably never see the topic!Since people usually don't look at the other side of the moon. That's a problem imo...
Finally I guess you will still be afraid that regrouping all the race topics is going to exclude the non english speakers, if they are shy or lazy. Hmm... It would still be a little bit better than now but I understand the problem

[Buhmann]

Okay, what abput this?

Official
Fairplay
Bugs
Race Organisation
Newbie

RSF-Racess
Team presentations

English Area
French Area
German Area

[Robyklebt]

IMO Team presentations can stay in the language part.
Can imagine that it doesn't interest french have to click through 20 german press centers, the opposite as well.

Races only 1.
Technic keep on top too and make additonal german-french-ITALIAN ones.

No additional english, but keep one central technic part that is the main part somehow. If somebody writes in german/french/italian ok, but leave a main place.

[Luna]

IMO Team presentations can stay in the language part.
Can imagine that it doesn't interest french have to click through 20 german press centers, the opposite as well.

Shall the user write "[english]", "[francais]" or "[deutsch]" or "[italiano]" at the beginning of the thread title. So everybody could see immediately which threads are of concern, read them, then mark all topics as read.

I wouldn't dislike it to have all the press centres next to each other.

[Luna]

Nice gimmick, this password wall for the international Fairness thread. Can we make the same for the german Bug forum as compensation. I think it would be fair to deny entry to one thread in each language so that the users have to struggle with languages they don't know in the neighbour forum.

[Buhmann]

I don´t know why there is a password question if you want to go into the fairplay thread. maybe leso has an idea.

[lesossies]

I don´t know hot it happened but I corrected it

[Robyklebt]

I just used my awesome forum admin powers to create an italian off topic, somebody wanted it there, so tried.

Hope managed to do all correctly and the forum won't explode.


Nr 2

Leso or Buh:

Any way to sort of make it more difficult for those endless bots to register?

If I counted correctly I deleted 43 of those "users" in April...
I kind of enjoy deleting too, simple minds like simple repetetive actions, but still, a few less would be ok too.

[Robyklebt]

Still hoping to get some sense into this mess here.

1. We'll get spanish and portuguese soon hopefully. Add their forums?

Then:

System part: Leave it as it is
English part: Leave it as it is. Maybe delete english add multilingual, or english/multikulti
German part:
- Cut Fairness. Get that shit in one place. Even though it's clear that most
- Cut bugs. Why the need for double postings. If somebody who doesn't speak german is too dumb to recognize "bugs" in the system part as the same as "bugs" in the german part... nothing to do, stupid people are just stupid.
- Cut Rennkalender. It's in on top.
- Cut RSF Rennen. That anti-integration tool. Let everybody write in the english/multilingual part. And if they can't write english let them write in greek/french/german/korean or whatever they want.

Basically get the specific language sections down to 6-7 subforums

- Technique: Ok if Buh really wants.
- Team presentation
- Teams and riders/General RSF talk
- Off topic
- Real cycling
- FQ/I'm new, the help part basically.

That's enough for the language parts.
Add the same in spanish and portuguese, cut the overlong german part.

[lesossies]

For me OK

I´ll look for a bot filter.