July 2020

[luques]

http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/july2020.pdf

[GreenMotion]

is there still room for a TT or TTT?

[CircleCycle]

is there still room for a TT or TTT?

or do the // tours have TT/TTT?

[Robyklebt]

This really is the least important thing you guys decide to discuss. Answer: No, not in the preview. No fantasy races in previews unless it's off season.

In the calendar then the 29th seems ideal for a ITT, since then the Olympic TT would have been ridden. If the 29th involves to much tears and whining because there is a tour parallel, 24th would work too, since either then or on the 25th the Olympic Road Race was planned. And since we ride Olympics and WCs all in one day....


Other stuff:

Parallel tours:
Now the parallel program looks almost too good IMO. Sibiu, Poland and Wallonie. I think 2 tours would have been enough, ride the TdF or "suffer". But wouldn't know which one to cancel.

Sibiu is basically promised from the June preview. Reason was that it's ridden then, so finally a race on the real date! In the meantime has been postponed to the end of July... bah. But still, promised.
Poland, clear we ride that. But 2 questions.
1) 3 times or 4 times?
2) 5 or 7 stages? 7 stages was the original plan, what would have been ridden in July. 5 is the adjusted August race. Of course we're not sure to find the whole 7 stage route anyway, but if we do, what should we ride, 5 or 7 stages?
Wallonie... could be kicked, to have it at 2, but since the 2 other races are at the start, nicer to have something at the end of the Tour for the cowards who don't ride it as well.

So in the end the Donkey reluctantly is for these 3 tours, but if others are for kicking something, that's ok too.

Times?
Categories?

And we need Hansa's flamme rouge skills! For any/all profiles!

[Hansa]

1) 3 times or 4 times?
2) 5 or 7 stages?

3 times for parallel tours to TDF is enough in my opinion.
If we find all 7 stages we should do 5 because we following the old calender.

Im in holidays right now. Most likely i wont be able to look for the flamme rouge profiles before the weekend.

[CircleCycle]

Right now, the side program seems a bit too attractive indeed. Cut 1 Tour? Imo has to be Poland or Wallonie, because we already decided for the June Calendar between fantasy Austria/Sibiu. Downgrading to cat2 (cat1) wouldn't solve the problem, still too much money to win there.

Sibiu:
https://www.la-flamme-rouge.eu/maps/races/view/2020/361

@TT/TTT in calendar. not important for you, still important to know before. 24th for ITT okay, for TTT doubtful because of San Sebastian next day

[IDF]

3 tours, perfect. At least we have some tours contrary to June...

Maybe 4 editions? Looks that we have more players lately..

[Hansa]

3 tours, perfect. At least we have some tours contrary to June...

Maybe 4 editions? Looks that we have more players lately..

Not enough for 4 editions parallel to a GT

[Mangahn]

Most importand:

be fast. TDF starts soon and some player would like to have information about the tours in front of starting TDF or not. (Not me. I disagree to go 23 days).

[Gipfelstuermer]

OK, Sibiu and Tour de l'Ain on "old" UCI calendar dates instead of new dates... Don't really like it and would love to switch to new UCI calendar but if we are consistent and continue like that... I can live with that. I'm just one of those who love to ride the real race in RSF on the real date for fun... sometimes even watching the race in TV in paralllel... anyway, I accept it!

So on the question of attractive parallel programm vs TDF. When I think about riding parallel programme to make more money, clearly shows me it looks too attractive... I would cancel Sibiu normally because of the timing. If you can ride first week of TDF, just ride it and not that Sibiu thing and think later about 2nd and 3rd week! (usually ok if you miss some stages or you find a sitter or you start with a cheap team)

But ok, you seem to have promised Sibiu in June? Then keep it. Poland and Wallonie... mmmh... cutting any would leave a large tour gap in calendar for those who cant ride TDF.... So really a dilemma here. Cut Poland and you have 13 days without a tour, cut Wallonie and you have 15 days without a tour, mmmh....Some dirty solution could also be postpone Wallonie between TDF and Burgos... but bad for San Sébastien so again not good.... So after analyzing, if you want to cut something, cut Poland... Or maybe keep all of them and I ride parallel programme instead of TDF for money? Anyway, max. 3 editons each tour, otherwise will be waaaaay too attractive vs TDF.

And Mangahn is right, decide soon!

[Robyklebt]

Well, cancelling Poland to me seems very very bad. It's the most important of the parallel races, by far. Cancelling and not riding it at all... pff.

Do some more mental gymnastics and extra rules and postpone it to its new real date, that would be a possibility. But cancel it completely IMO the worst of all options.

Sibiu is in the June preview as fix for July, the last preview usually is regarded as binding, so it has been promised in that sense. But promises can be broken, so IF we want to keep Poland where it is then still Sibiu is the best cancelling option I think.


As for Manghi, decide soon is easily said, but a) it needs people saying what they think fast (something you haven't done for example) and then b) Luques to post the finalized PDF fast (hm, good luck with that ) And it needs people to be capable of finding the forum reading as well. Something that seems to be a problem for many actually

[GreenMotion]

If Sibu is deleted, would it be possible to ride Poland at 5pm?

[Rasmussen]

Don't like Sibiu canceled as it is probably the only tour I can ride in July and somehow planned with it because of it in the June Preview.

I think we don't have to cancel one of the tours, just 3 editions each and not parallel to other important races like San Sebastian. So mostly like it's in the Preview.

Poland 5 or 7 days no idea...as all stages look the same since years anyway I could live with 5.

[Robyklebt]

Then already clear Sibiu won't be cut.
In the PDF in June, even one guy insist it's ridden, then should be. As everybody's beloved calendar assistant I issue a decree that says: Sibiu will be ridden on the dates it says in the preview!

[olmania]

With July starting, many managers, regular and not regular will be in holidays.

Do they tend to be more available and ride more, especially tours that require more regular presence ?
Or do they tend to be away from the computer and disconnect for the game, travel a lot, etc. and have issues for regular presence ?

If the balance is equal, we should keep an "usual" balance of tours, if the balance is for an option or another, maybe we can adapt the calendar to avoid :
- frustration for the ones who can't ride TDF and could have not many interesting things in // in case some tours are cancelled
- very tiny/ridiculous groups in case we have not enough managers for // tours (and TDF?)

I'm not sure that the participation of GT is mostly determined by the tour offer in //. Most managers would prefer to ride TDF if they could !? (I said most, not all, indeed).
Availability of managers determines mostly the participation in GT.

What's their availability for the 3 first weeks of July is the main question we should ask the community ? And adapt accordingly.

[gaurain rx]

Real Wallonie Tour is 4 days this year (reprogrammed 16 to 19 AUgust). If you want to ride it on the old calendar, lets do it 4 days and the real stages of 2020.

[Robyklebt]

25th so let's finalize it... with the preview that is up now.

Too attractive, it is, but we can't find a solution it seems.
Sibiu promised from June. Stays
Pologne too important to cancel, since we have profiles (5 days sure, 7 days doubtful, waiting for Hansa)
Wallonie fits is being a bit later. 2020 profiles says Gaurain, obviously. 4 days... ok. Would have thought like Pologne, if we find the originally planned 5 days 5, but since we probably won't 4 from the start ok too.

[Robyklebt]

Donkey does Sibiu

Rest later

[gaurain rx]

Wallonie profile is not out yet on the official Website.

[Robyklebt]

Oh, it's the 24th, thought the 25th.. .so let's wait with finalizing

Possible problem right now:

Poland and Wallonie aren't out yet on their sites. What do we do if they aren't published fast enough (assuming the originally planned 7 stage version for Poland can't be found either)?

[Hansa]

Oh, it's the 24th, thought the 25th.. .so let's wait with finalizing

Possible problem right now:

Poland and Wallonie aren't out yet on their sites. What do we do if they aren't published fast enough (assuming the originally planned 7 stage version for Poland can't be found either)?

cant find poland or wallonie

[IDF]

At least, the month will finish in 7 days...

For sure, that could be a problem for guys who have to decide between riding the tdf or // tours so at least we have still 2 entire days in order to know 2020's profiles.
Otherwise, maybe trying with 2019 one's?

[Robyklebt]

At least, the month will finish in 7 days...

For sure, that could be a problem for guys who have to decide between riding the tdf or // tours so at least we have still 2 entire days in order to know 2020's profiles.
Otherwise, maybe trying with 2019 one's?

Maybe putting Pologne at 28/06 instead of 29/06 in order to ride the Portugal tour could be a nice idea

That's from June 27th 2017. The post ahead of yours asks what tours will be ridden except the TdF.
So you know what? Despite the fact we're in Covid 19-times, we're further in planning than we were 3 years ago when there was no Covid-19. As a matter of fact we are consistently earlier with deciding than we were in the past.

Pologne+Wallonie 2020 route.
Not there, not there, what do you want to do?
Option 1, wait and if the routes come online, design, put on. Doesn't matter if it's the day before.

If nothing comes up, what to do?
a) Use 2019. Put it up the day before. That's what risks happening with Poland for sure, since it isn't that far away. Think it's rather stupid since 2020 will have a real route that will be ridden in reality....
b) Follow Gipfel (partly) and move minor tours to their new dates. Poland, Wallonie... Poland wouldn't really clash with anything in August if I remember correctly. Wallonie with the Vuelta, but ok, Tour-Vuelta, same shit Other parallel tours to the Vuelta, original calendar, that are cancelled probably won't have any 2020 routes either, so having real new-calendar races there would be an improvement. But then the question would be... what else in July parallel to the TdF?

But well, since finally only Gipfelstuermer and Robyklebt have said something on the subject... it looks like Option 1, followed by a).

[Gipfelstuermer]

a small mistake in calendar. TDF will finish on the 19th, not on the 21st

Pologne+Wallonie 2020 route.
Not there, not there, what do you want to do?
Option 1, wait and if the routes come online, design, put on. Doesn't matter if it's the day before.

If nothing comes up, what to do?
a) Use 2019. Put it up the day before. That's what risks happening with Poland for sure, since it isn't that far away. Think it's rather stupid since 2020 will have a real route that will be ridden in reality....
b) Follow Gipfel (partly) and move minor tours to their new dates. Poland, Wallonie... Poland wouldn't really clash with anything in August if I remember correctly. Wallonie with the Vuelta, but ok, Tour-Vuelta, same shit Other parallel tours to the Vuelta, original calendar, that are cancelled probably won't have any 2020 routes either, so having real new-calendar races there would be an improvement. But then the question would be... what else in July parallel to the TdF?

But well, since finally only Gipfelstuermer and Robyklebt have said something on the subject... it looks like Option 1, followed by a).

Oh! That gives me an idea!

Perhaps we can put the 4-day Wallonie from 20th to 23th (or 5-day from 20th to 24th) between TDF (ends 19th) and San Sebastian (on 25th)?

That way there are 2 tours parallel to TDF, so parallel programme would be good but not too attractive.

[Robyklebt]

Ok, have to admit this doesn't convince me at all.

It solves the too attractive problem... but not in an elegant way. Neither meat (original date) nor fish (new calendar) but somewhere where it fits one of our purposes. And doesn't even guarantee that we'll have the right route by then. Not a fan.

More elegant would be to kick Poland to the new date.. but I'm the only (partial) fan there... so to me looks more and more like the preview posted, just unclear with what routes.