Le Tour 2020

[Gipfelstuermer]

Design: I'm OK to start with the design as June is coming closer. Will let you know if I need help. As always, comments on mintact and design errors are welcome.

Times: 10-14-18-22 suggested by luques. Not sure about the 18-22 combo. Pretty sure there are people who like to ride 19, 20 or 21h... So I suggest 10-14-19-22 or 5 editions 10-14-18-21-23.

Points Classification: Numbers for the stages and IS easy to find: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Points_cl ... _de_France.
flat 50 30 20 18 16 14 12 10 8 7 6 5 4 3 2
medium 30 25 22 19 17 15 13 11 9 7 6 5 4 3 2
mountain 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
individual time trial 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
intermediate sprint 20 17 15 13 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et01
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km98


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et02
Type: Mountain/HC
Min-Tact: km158


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et03
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km188


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et04
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km136


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et05
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km160


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et06
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km156


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et07
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km155


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et08
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km94


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et09
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km124

*********************************************************************
REST DAY - REST DAY - REST DAY - REST DAY - REST DAY
*********************************************************************


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et10
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km158


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et11
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km157


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et12
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km174


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et13
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km170


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et14
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km183


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et15
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km100

*********************************************************************
REST DAY - REST DAY - REST DAY - REST DAY - REST DAY
*********************************************************************


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et16
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km128


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et17
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km96


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et18
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km133


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et19
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km144


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et20
Type: ITT
Min-Tact: km1


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... ur2020et21
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km108

[el Galactico]

Please no 23h. 22h is already late enough. Nobody wants a GT later than that

[Pokemon Club]

For TDF at 22h too !

[olmania]

Stage 18, I left * for Plateau des Glières dirt road. It was * in 2018 rsf design.
It's definitely not pavé, but also definitely not an easy dirt road.
If needed, I can change it to **.
(mintackt before climb to Plateau des glières)

Have a look by yourself :



Stage 17, mintackt is before Madeleine, ok for you ?
Stage 16, mintackt before last 1cat
Stage 15, km 100. good to everyone ?

For stages 15-17, mintackt is quite early, but kinda makes sense here imo.

[Hansa]

Stage 18, I left * for Plateau des Glières dirt road. It was * in 2018 rsf design.
It's definitely not pavé, but also definitely not an easy dirt road.
If needed, I can change it to **.
(mintackt before climb to Plateau des glières)

Have a look by yourself :



Stage 17, mintackt is before Madeleine, ok for you ?
Stage 16, mintackt before last 1cat
Stage 15, km 100. good to everyone ?

For stages 15-17, mintackt is quite early, but kinda makes sense here imo.

I remember having dirt road at ** for rsf races. But its some time ago. Im fine with going for **

Mintact is ok i guess

[Gipfelstuermer]

all mintacts perfects now, thanks Gip for designing!

Thanks to OL who designed some important stages!

Info on IS and KOM is missing from ASO however... so might be out of Gip/OL creativity in the end, too ^^

[Robyklebt]

Generally way too short mintact.

And if you really want to finish your races as fast as you can, then at least be consistent. What do we need mintact from km 1 on a TT? Make it your usual (bad) policy if anything.

[olmania]

Generally way too short mintact.

And if you really want to finish your races as fast as you can, then at least be consistent. What do we need mintact from km 1 on a TT? Make it your usual (bad) policy if anything.

Please explain, how and where the mintackt should be changed in the stages ?
so we can discuss these possible changes generally, and/or stage by stage.

Also, I'd like to read about other manager's opinions, but in race chats, many people seem to be bored/annoyed by very long mintackt, especially when that could be shortened without changing the deal of the race. Do we have more people liking a 10min mintackt or a 30min mintakt on a totally flat race f.e ?

And finally, many stages of TDF are quite "short" for a GT (compared to Giro I guess f.e); so it's quite normal that stages are shorter in general.

[L RSV]

I prefer short stages with short mintact.
In difficult mountains terrain it is good to have some longer mintact, but nothing too long.

At the giro races often appeared too long for me, as I was riding the 22h. I can't ride TdF late if races are very long again. Maybe I would need to change to the morning then, with the negative effect of being off more often...

"Do we have more people liking a 10min mintackt or a 30min mintakt on a totally flat race f.e ?" --> L RSV: 10 Min

[Robyklebt]

Is there a rational reason why the 2020 is written there? I answer myself, no, there isn't, it's pure idiocy.
Adding 2020, why just that, why not June and July too? The exact date? The day of the week?
As for the mintact, dictatorial behaviour, nothing else, by 2 inept designers with pineapples stuck on their necks.

[Hansa]

I prefer short stages with short mintact.
In difficult mountains terrain it is good to have some longer mintact, but nothing too long.

At the giro races often appeared too long for me, as I was riding the 22h. I can't ride TdF late if races are very long again. Maybe I would need to change to the morning then, with the negative effect of being off more often...

"Do we have more people liking a 10min mintackt or a 30min mintakt on a totally flat race f.e ?" --> L RSV: 10 Min

Im fine with short mintacts

[Bear]

I am not really pro long or short min tact. Unfortunately I don’t have the time to look at every stage. For potential GC stages it‘s ok for me to have more min tact. But I am late evening rider and sometimes the very long stages are just too much. But that’s a problem of 22h. Don’t know how the morning and afternoon riders think about that.

[Rasmussen]

Mintact looks good to me.

[team fl]

Thanks for the design. I have the following comments for the min tact:

- Stage 1: The crucial point for that stage will be the third climb up to the Cote de Rimiez. Hence, I would rather like to have the min tact set at km 100 (or when the climb exactly starts), as there will be a lot going on most likely. The stage is not that long and even with such a long min tact, the race will be under 2h (without sprint). I can understand though why people rather like it short. Anyway, I would prefer it to be longer.

- Stage 3: This is a bit different than stage 1 as stage 3 is 198 km long. Anyway, also here, the crucial point is way before the current min tact is set. So I would prefer it to be before the climb to the Col de l'Orne (km 154). The stage would be around 2h with such a min tact. Same second thoughts as with stage 1, again, I would prefer a longer min tact.

- Stage 6: Min tact right before the Cap de Coste at km 145 looks more sensible to me. That would make the stage only about 6 min longer.

- Stage 7: Here i plead for a shorter min tact, acually . Last 10 km should be fine.

- Stage 9: Put it at km 126 or 125 right before the intermediate, I'd say. It might be not that important if a group is in front, but if not (anymore) the sprint could be interesting.

- Stage 12: I'd put it before the Cote de Lestards, way more sensible imho. That's also only about 5 min longer.

- Stage 13: make it a round one: 20 km before the finish at km 171 . Personally, I would even prefer it to be at km 153. But I as people don't seem to like playing this game and want it to be over as soon as possible, km 171 should do it

- Stage 15: I really like the min tact to be at km 100. But in my eyes, looking at the other stages, this looks very inconsistent to me regarding short min tacts in general, esp. as you put very short min tacts for the sprint stages with decisive climbs not taken into account. So why not a short one here at km 155? I am positively surprised though .

- Stage 16: See stage 15

- Stage 17: See stage 15

- Stage 18: See stage 15

- Stage 19: I cannot tell where exactly km 144 is, but I think it's the last 6% before the finish? No? Well, make it there, that would be better imho. Perfect would be before km 83 though, stage around 2h again .

[team fl]

Besides the fact that this is off topic. How do you jump to the conclusion that the one thing is an insult and the other thing isn't? (attention: rhetorical question...) And an FPC member is nothing special here. Neither is anybody else.

On-topic: Any comment about my min tact suggestions? That's the controversy we need here

[Robyklebt]

Who allowed Idef to quote and mention me?
Make sure it doesn't happen again.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Thanks for the design. I have the following comments for the min tact:

- Stage 1: The crucial point for that stage will be the third climb up to the Cote de Rimiez. Hence, I would rather like to have the min tact set at km 100 (or when the climb exactly starts), as there will be a lot going on most likely. The stage is not that long and even with such a long min tact, the race will be under 2h (without sprint). I can understand though why people rather like it short. Anyway, I would prefer it to be longer.

- Stage 3: This is a bit different than stage 1 as stage 3 is 198 km long. Anyway, also here, the crucial point is way before the current min tact is set. So I would prefer it to be before the climb to the Col de l'Orne (km 154). The stage would be around 2h with such a min tact. Same second thoughts as with stage 1, again, I would prefer a longer min tact.

- Stage 6: Min tact right before the Cap de Coste at km 145 looks more sensible to me. That would make the stage only about 6 min longer.

- Stage 7: Here i plead for a shorter min tact, acually . Last 10 km should be fine.

- Stage 9: Put it at km 126 or 125 right before the intermediate, I'd say. It might be not that important if a group is in front, but if not (anymore) the sprint could be interesting.

- Stage 12: I'd put it before the Cote de Lestards, way more sensible imho. That's also only about 5 min longer.

- Stage 13: make it a round one: 20 km before the finish at km 171 . Personally, I would even prefer it to be at km 153. But I as people don't seem to like playing this game and want it to be over as soon as possible, km 171 should do it

- Stage 15: I really like the min tact to be at km 100. But in my eyes, looking at the other stages, this looks very inconsistent to me regarding short min tacts in general, esp. as you put very short min tacts for the sprint stages with decisive climbs not taken into account. So why not a short one here at km 155? I am positively surprised though .

- Stage 16: See stage 15

- Stage 17: See stage 15

- Stage 18: See stage 15

- Stage 19: I cannot tell where exactly km 144 is, but I think it's the last 6% before the finish? No? Well, make it there, that would be better imho. Perfect would be before km 83 though, stage around 2h again .

Thanks for suggestions, FL. (I will ignore off-topic stuff in this thread. Please understand this is to focus on Le Tour and nothing else.)

Stage 1: CHANGED MINTACT to km98. I had it earlier (where you suggest it now) for the same reasons. Comments were that it is too early. Seems a 50:50 here. Can't make everyone happy about it, but I tend to make it longer min-tact again now. Hill can be dangerous (although looks like a boring mass sprint normally), it is a short stage and on stage 1 people usually have time and are interested to look at the opponents, talk about the race etc.

Stage 3: Similar as stage 1, but last sieb-km even further away from finish and with an already longer race I will keep shorter min-tact

Stage 6: Mh, don't think Cap de Coste is that relevant and it's a long stage already. But OL can change it of course if he wants.

Stage 7: Was already changed before your comment. Perhaps you can see it when you delete cookies or so.

Stage 9: CHANGED MINTACT to km124. Good point, would normally have done it like that, but IS was included after min-tact, so did not re-think mintact after putting IS in.

Stage 12: CHANGED MINTACT to km174. Good suggestion, I agree. (although it makes stage really long)

Stage 13: Even though I like beautiful numbers, a bit pointless argument for me to make it "round".

Stage 15 - 18: Well, could be because it is two different designers? But actually makes sense for me. There is much more on-going on a mountain stage vs. a sprint stage, even if there are sieb-km. Maybe a race develops with some sieb-km for different groups of sprinters, but it's less complicated than a mountain stage, where you have sometimes dozens of different groups for dozens of km and so settings are much more complex.

Stage 19: If you click on the link, you can see every single kilometer.


So looks pretty much final to me now Can be uploaded in the next days for me to end the discussion haha.

[team fl]

Thanks GipFel .

My suggestion about stage 13 has not been very serious I have to admit, mainly for the OCD guys . Stage 15-18 I am completely fine with the min tacts as set. I've just been a bit surprised about the long min tact there compared with the short min tacts during the other stages. Perfect explanation there too.

[Robyklebt]

Planned to put the Tour online now, but....

OL and Gipfel saved them under different names,

Le Tour 2020
letour2020/LeTour2020

Since I don't know if that could fuck everything up, the whole game doesn't seem to exceptionally stable after all.... won't do it today. No time to adjust the name right now, so will do it tomorrow. If Gipfel (who seems to have resaved the OL stages anyway) wants to do it ok, otherwise I will have time tomorrow evening (well, afternoon for you, or even morning for you) and will do it then.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Planned to put the Tour online now, but....

OL and Gipfel saved them under different names,

Le Tour 2020
letour2020/LeTour2020

Since I don't know if that could fuck everything up, the whole game doesn't seem to exceptionally stable after all.... won't do it today. No time to adjust the name right now, so will do it tomorrow. If Gipfel (who seems to have resaved the OL stages anyway) wants to do it ok, otherwise I will have time tomorrow evening (well, afternoon for you, or even morning for you) and will do it then.

Saved all of them as "Le Tour 2020". Hope it helps.

[Robyklebt]

Ok, thanks.

Back home much earlier than expected, so in the end would have had lots of time to do it, but easier if somebody else does it.

Online now (well, in a few minutes...)
As usual better check everything....

[Robyklebt]

Wallonie starts Saturday.

Stages are out, but can't find details yet. AND stage one needs a new host already, since the arrival city refuses... so looks very likely that we'll have the version of 2019 after all. Will wait one more day to see of somewhere they put up details, but looks unlikely.