MAY 2020

[Gipfelstuermer]

Can be O.K. with a fantasy Tour de Suisse, but seems we start to deviate for different tours a bit.

Giro --> Ride 2020 version (because 2020 available and unsure about postponement and 2021)
Dauphine --> Ride 2020 version but on different date (because 2020 available and unsure about postponement and 2021)
Romandie --> Cancel (because no 2020 available)
Norway --> Ride 2019 version (because no 2020 available)
Tour de Suisse --> Ride fantasy (because we feel sure about 2021)
Olympic Games --> Cancel (because only every 4 years anyway)

Worries me a bit, how complicated this is getting. All of the proposal have a reason but it starts to get very confusing and I doubt, we can keep calendar consistent like that.

How to keep it consistent with all the real life calendar changes? I think we should just keep riding the real races on the planned real date if profiles available and cancel only if profiles unavailable. Postponement or shifting dates only in very special cases, like in the past. (Dauphine and TdS calendar for me a good reason and special case to allow everyone Giro + Dauphine + TdS).

Only one disadvantage of my proposal: We might ride some races twice if they get postponed to 2021. Like perhaps Giro 2021 or TdS 2021. It is a bit boring, but who guarantees they take place in 2021? And will it really be identical profiles? Could be slightly different route, slightly different GPM / IS. Will be definitely completely different peloton after 12 months.

[Robyklebt]

Well, it really is more consistent that you make it out to be:

Keep planned calendar with planned parcours when available.
If not available take another available race (Romandie-Yorkshire).

And possibly: If cancelled for sure and same parcours announced for 2021, go for a fantasy version. But that's still a possibility, and for the moment restricted to the TdS. According to Cousin Zauberlehrling, the TdS organizer announced it is cancelled for 2020 and they will ride this parcours in 2021. They say that on their site too "möglichst identisch", which of course doesn't mean it's guaranteed, but likely.

The only 2 "special cases" really are:
- Norway 19. To me makes little sense if we have designed fantasy races that most likely will never be ridden, but ride 4 stages of the 6 stages tour 19 instead. Really has very little to do with "planned calendar" then anymore, but ok, that's what seems more popular.
- Dauphiné one day later, to which I'm of course opposed to, but here at least I can see the logic. For the numbers certainly better to allow the Giro guys to ride the TdS.

For the rest continue with the rather simply policy. Real calendar. If profiles not available, other race. The 2 open questions really are what to do if 2020 cancelled and annnounced for 2021. (TdS case) And profiles not available no sensible race in parallel planned (Norway case, which unfortunately seems resolved in the sense that the policy seems to be take last years profiles and butcher the tour)

So I don't see it as overly confusing or with too many exception.

The fantasy if 2021 same parcours highly likely exception isn't decided yet anyway, just a possibility,

What I'm way more opposed is opening the Giro-Dauphiné-TdS line. That would be the biggest exception/deviation from any kind of policy, like the one you underline in your post, and then we could absolutely forget about even attempting to follow the real calendar. If that is ok, I want to ride the Vuelta AND the parallel classics. Why not, if I could ride Dauphiné and TdS, why should we follow the planned calendar in the case of Vuelta-classics?

[Pokemon Club]

BTW do you have the full original calendar somewhere ? Because I am affraid we won't find it anymore if we don't have it yet.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Keep planned calendar with planned parcours when available.
If not available take another available race (Romandie-Yorkshire).

And possibly: If cancelled for sure and same parcours announced for 2021, go for a fantasy version.

OK, I agree with that structure.

On the Giro/Dauphine/TdS-line, I am indifferent. Situation is somewhat special vs. the past because I can't remember that in the past Dauphine was parallel to Giro, was it? So effectively, it is Giro&TdS vs. Dauphine, where in the past it was TdS vs. Dauphine... anyway, I think there are good reasons for both (keeping real calendar dates or shifting) in this case.

[Pokemon Club]

Keep planned calendar with planned parcours when available.
If not available take another available race (Romandie-Yorkshire).

And possibly: If cancelled for sure and same parcours announced for 2021, go for a fantasy version.

OK, I agree with that structure.

On the Giro/Dauphine/TdS-line, I am indifferent. Situation is somewhat special vs. the past because I can't remember that in the past Dauphine was parallel to Giro, was it? So effectively, it is Giro&TdS vs. Dauphine, where in the past it was TdS vs. Dauphine... anyway, I think there are good reasons for both (keeping real calendar dates or shifting) in this case.

Dauphine was parallel to Giro this year because of the early date of O.G. All races before OG starting Dauphine start 1 week earlier this year.

[Robyklebt]

Well, in the 90s the Dauphiné was parallel to Giro but ok, I know that's rather irrelevant for 2020

What I mean is: changing Dauphiné by 1 day to allow the Giro guys to ride is understandable. I can see the point, even if I'm personally opposed on principle. In the minority it seems. So it looks likely that we'll have Giro, then Dauphiné/TdS.

What I don't see the point at all is postponing the TdS too for some days, to allow us Giro-Dauphiné-TdS. If we have as main guiding principle: follow the real calendar, with some exceptions that have always happened, then changing the TdS to allow us to ride both Dauphiné and Tour de Suisse seems a pretty bad idea to me and actually is abandoning the principle. Fortunately you're the only one who has somewhat supported that so far, there doesn't seem to be any danger for it to happen

As for the original calendar, thought about that too when writing the previous post, but decided, fuck it, I'll see month to month (PCS calendar changes might work)

[Hansa]

i like dauphine parrallel to suisse. but not parallel to giro otherwise dauphines groups could be very small if we have giro and tds parallel to dauphine

[el Galactico]

I am also opposed to Giro - Dauphine - TdS line. But I like the idea to postpone Dauphine by a day so Giro guys have the chance to decide between Dauphine/TdS.

[Bear]

Dont like the idea to change any starting dates. I am pro real dates, no matter what. Otherwise it will be too much discussion each month.

[IDF]

From OL, Dunkerque !

EDIT : OL will cancel the pave on dh.

[Hansa]

From OL, Dunkerque !

Ok it has 6 days. Just checked it. It actually has 6 days and the profiles look like the 2019 edition havent checked the details but the cities are right.

This year edition also was planned for 6 stages from 5th to 10th May.

Now we need robys decision if 6 days fit our calender ^^

Edit: im dumb its already for 6 days in the pdf.

[Chense]

Ok, so let's focus on real Giro!

Some details for GIRO 2020 if luques has time:
- maglia rosa please
- points classification should be like last year: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Giro ... leadership

And some help needed for the design. Opinions are welcome.
- GPM: RCS Sport published, where they are but not the category, so category can be discussed.
- IS: They are not online at all, so I will do what RCS Sport did last year: 2 IS per normal stage.
- Any pavé / dirt at all this year? Looks to me like no.
- Min-tact. Let me know what you think.

http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro01
Type: ITT
Min-Tact: km1


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro02
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km185


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro03
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km194



http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro04
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km110



http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro05
Type: Mountain / HC
Min-Tact: km130


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro06
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km125


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro07
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km190


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro08
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km205


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro09
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km176

*** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY ***


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro10
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km173


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro11
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km172


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro12
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km172


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro13
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km156


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro14
Type: ITT
Min-Tact: km1


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro15
Type: Mountain/HC
Min-Tact: km169

*** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY *** REST DAY ***


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro16
Type: Hilly
Min-Tact: km210


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro17
Type: Mountain/HC
Min-Tact: km186


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro18
Type: Mountain/HC
Min-Tact: km148


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro19
Type: Flat
Min-Tact: km242


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro20
Type: Mountain/HC
Min-Tact: km131


http://www.radsportfreaks.de/radsport/p ... 2020giro21
Type: ITT
Min-Tact: km1

Great work thanks! Just 2 small things ive seen while checking ...

On stage 3 the city is called Tihany not Tihani
And the skiing station we pass at stage 17 is the Monte Bondone not Bodone

[Robyklebt]

I'm not too happy with the percentages actually.

Sestriere:

2 6 9 4 6 8 3 3 8 8 7 6
Thought these very flattish km there were strange, so checked the Giro page

They have the details there, to me looks

5 7 8 5 5 5 5 6 6 7 7. With 400 meters at 0.5 left.

Doesn't look like you used the most important and useful help... the Giro page! Didn't check other places closely, but to me seems to be a problem on all stages where on the Giro site there are details of the climbs.

[Gipfelstuermer]

On stage 3 the city is called Tihany not Tihani
And the skiing station we pass at stage 17 is the Monte Bondone not Bodone

Corrected.

Doesn't look like you used the most important and useful help... the Giro page!

I checked the Giro page, but I admit, I did not do it for every single climbing km, where it seemed accurate to me.

Some relevant changes for climbs:
Monte di Ragogna (Stage 16). 11-9-6 instead of 5-14-6
Sestriere (Stage 20). As suggested by Donkey. last km +1.

And some really small changes here, for those who want to doublecheck.
Etna (Stage 5)
Piancavallo (Stage 15)
Monte Bondone (Stage 17)
Passo Durone (Stage 17)
Madonna di Campiglio (Stage 17)
Stelvio (Stage 18)
Laghi di Cancano (Stage 18)
Montgenevre (Stage 20)

[CircleCycle]

Is there already a decision about Dauphine?

[Robyklebt]

Luques updated the PDF. I'll regard it as finalized in a few hours.

Gipfel, Agnel? I doubt that was so irregular.

[olmania]

if that can help for design of Giro key stage :

Italian side :

French side :


Izoard (not the best design, but the more accurate imo) :

[Pokemon Club]

I am unhappy about the how are program the next ITT and TTT. Why to put them at the same time of tours that have no ITTs and no TTT. During a year where TTs in tours are less than usual. I don't understand, can you explain please?

[Robyklebt]

Don't worry I have constructive discussion w ith people I want to have a constructive discussion. Luques know my opinion so it is ok he will free to do what he want with that after as it is him decision anaywau. I'll be happy to discuss with Circle Idefix or Coro too if they want. But you Donkey and FL I have nothing more to discuss with you. I don't do the job for you but for luques, So what you think about it I definitively don't care. He will see what he want to keep or not. If you thonk it is wrong feel free to ecplain him why and propose him something better

So since you are clearly not interested in constructive discussions with me... I'll save myself the trouble of answering. Better for both of us I think, wouldn't you agree?

[IDF]

Stop with your child war, especially for/into a topic that everybody care.

Thx.

[Robyklebt]

Well, Pokemon's announcement that he hadn't anything to discuss with me came in a calendar coordination thread. I simply respect his wishes, nothing more. He hasn't said that he changed his mind...

[Pokemon Club]

When you quote someone, thanks to add the link of the quote.
And if you don't answer, it is OK.

[Robyklebt]

When you quote someone, thanks to add the link of the quote.
And if you don't answer, it is OK.

Just click on the upward arrow next to "Pokemon Club wrote"....

[GreenMotion]

I also think that the TT and TTT are very poorly chosen.
Especially the TTT. I don't remember when the last TTT was.
A TTT without a tour was probably a long time ago.

I think it's a shame, especially the TTT during the Giro I would have liked to ride. Just to practice it for a possible tour in the future.

best regards
Jäger-LeCultre

[Pokemon Club]

When you quote someone, thanks to add the link of the quote.
And if you don't answer, it is OK.

Just click on the upward arrow next to "Pokemon Club wrote"....

Oh thanks! First time I saw that!