Big Donkey fair play vote

[olmania]

I got this vote from yesterday's race.



I did not talk to him in the chat or anything.

Indeed, fairplay vote is often not used as a real "fair play" vote; but here it is something else. Make your own opinion of the words, its power and intepretation.

Quite sad to see, that years later, things have not changed and some individuals behave the same even if they were flagged many times.

I am not really back in the game, just playing occasionnaly, but what I should do now if I want to play time to time, avoid Big Donkey's races ? or just leave the game, like plenty of others did, due to such behaviors ?

[team fl]

Besides the fact that I don't like that fair play comment at all, personally, this:

or just leave the game, like plenty of others did, due to such behaviors

made me think a bit and brought up some questions.

1) Who else did quit because of such behaviours? Not because I don't believe you, but just out of curiosity and because I simply don't know. Can be discussed via PM too .

2) Why do we still have this fairplay vote system? I mean the only thing that it really helps for is to have some kind of notes about the teams you've been riding with for yourself. But do we need such a system for it which is used for aggressive and offensive language often and not for its original purpose anyway?

I hope I don't distract too much from the case in this thread, so back to the FPC and its work.

[Robyklebt]

Since it was established by the fairness committee that OL can call me sick without any punishment, I see no reason why I should not be allowed to call him the same.

Edit , forgot the link

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4380

[team fl]

Since it was established by the fairness committee that OL can call me sick without any punishment, I see no reason why I should not be allowed to call him the same.

Edit , forgot the link

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=4380

Context is important though. You made this fair play vote without any communication between the two of you in this particular race (as I understood it) while when he called you "sick" (don't like that too), there has already been a heated discussion beforehand. So, as far as I understand it, you used the fair play vote to show your general antipathy regarding OL, while it wasn't "triggered" by something he has done recently or in the race. What I want to say: Just because the same word or wording has been used, it doesn't mean that both cases may be seen as the same, necessarily, esp. regarding a possible penalty. Furthermore, you didn't just call him sick but also paranoid and implied that OL should have been banned from the game (for whatever). I really don't know your history with OL (enlighten us!), but why did you have to write that in the fair play vote in the first place? Write him a PM or just let it be would be my humble suggestion. And if there will be a trigger incident in the future, a reason (not an excuse) to call him that, well, then it's a different story.

[Robyklebt]

Disagree, things that are said don't magically become unsaid just because time passes. Payback.

OL has has said that he wanted me banned in the pas) see above), so suggesting he should be banned is once again nothing out of thin air. But payback.

I was triggered years ago, I'm just amazingly patient.

[luques]

2) Why do we still have this fairplay vote system? I mean the only thing that it really helps for is to have some kind of notes about the teams you've been riding with for yourself. But do we need such a system for it which is used for aggressive and offensive language often and not for its original purpose anyway?

Agree with you, think I will remove the possibility to add a comment.

[Gipfelstuermer]

Surprised to see this discussion.

Rule is easy: Insults are unfair. Insults will be penalized by FPC.

So what is your problem at all?

You think more words need to be classified as insults? Ok, can discuss if "sick" or "paranoid" is an insult.

Or you think more things need to be classified as unfair? OK, can discuss if "bad sportsmanship" or "disturbing" or "provoking" or "false accusation" or "calumny" or whatever should be classified as unfair in RSF and make a new Fairplay rule about it.

You think penalties from FPC aren't hard enough? OK, can discuss how we can make FPC better.

But just censoring? No Fairplay Vote? No race chat? No chat? Really? That would be treating the symptoms but not the cause.

Also, Fairplay Votes have some advantage. You can see quickly who causes a lot of problems and what type of problems. Sometimes that helps FPC to make some recommendations (which the FPC leader then might ignore in his decision). But it can also just help players if they get annoyed by somebody and wonder if that is normal. Another good thing about Fairplay Vote is that you can give help from manager to manager. So sometimes if you have a newbie, that is a good way to help them after a race.

[scorpsche]

Can't understand this discussion...for me Ezel always give nice fp comments!

[Pokemon Club]

Well close all chats ingame and go to discord if you want to talk, it will be easier

[Gipfelstuermer]

Just ignore race chat and Fairplay vote if you don't like it. Many players are doing that. So it is very easy. There is no rule that you have to write or read in race chat. It's even at the bottom of the page. Just don't scroll down there. And maybe accept if some players like the feature.

[Pokemon Club]

Just ignore race chat and Fairplay vote if you don't like it. Many players are doing that. So it is very easy. There is no rule that you have to write or read in race chat. It's even at the bottom of the page. Just don't scroll down there. And maybe accept if some players like the feature.

Ignoring chat ? And how you do when someone ask you something about the race but you can't answer or react because you don't see that ?

[LENNAO]

Just ignore race chat and Fairplay vote if you don't like it. Many players are doing that. So it is very easy. There is no rule that you have to write or read in race chat. It's even at the bottom of the page. Just don't scroll down there. And maybe accept if some players like the feature.

Ignoring chat ? And how you do when someone ask you something about the race but you can't answer or react because you don't see that ?

And how do you do when there is no racechat at all and you aren't able to get access to discord?
I have to agree Gipfel.
The racechat is one of the best features, if you don't care about disturbing factors or trolls.
Most of the time - with the right people - the game is better with having a nice discussion or just making fun in the racechat.

Otherwise you need to have a 10 sec mintact, so you dont have time to write anything in the chat.

[Pokemon Club]

The race chat in itself isn't good or bad, it is what people do about it which can be good or bad.
Btw the best things and more logical is to have private chat, or the possibility to have private groups, at least to ddo some tactics that aren't see for all the peloton

[Robyklebt]

Time to finally open an investigation into AGF?

[luques]

Also, Fairplay Votes have some advantage. You can see quickly who causes a lot of problems and what type of problems. Sometimes that helps FPC to make some recommendations (which the FPC leader then might ignore in his decision). But it can also just help players if they get annoyed by somebody and wonder if that is normal. Another good thing about Fairplay Vote is that you can give help from manager to manager. So sometimes if you have a newbie, that is a good way to help them after a race.

Not really sure about that, I think that a system of fair play with just + and - would be enough to see what players are fair and what aren't.
A preset of messages could be as well done, as usually reasons for complaining or praising an opponent are always the same, however we would avoid insults and those type of things.

Banning words is another good thing I guess.

[Gipfelstuermer]

[Robyklebt]

Anyway, because some of the worst abusers (not the worst, that's easily free, followed by Aux) of the fairplay vote system and most annoying constant chat manipulators (there they come close to the top) now feel insulted by comments, there is a need to change the system? No.
If there's an insult, the FPC can act. (sick and paranoid is indeed an insult I think. Don't need to write "Fuck you" to be insulting.) My defence here is not that it's not insulting, but that since it's accepted to call me that, there is no reason for any action at all (possibly a fine for hypocrisy, damn, thinking of it I could get one too under that policy, forget it) when I give it back to the same person.

[Joy]

Just adapt to Drama Queen
I have to admit that hi's fp comments-forum comments helped me(not only me as i saw) more often then offended me(offence is taken as FL said) Actualy hi is a nice guy doing a great job for this game but damn bored sometimes as he always trolling in any chat he is ..... so don't give more reasons to Drama Queen ,,,i might be lying here,not really sure

[luques]

Basically I don't see any advantage in giving fair play comments (not votes but comments).

Advices? Well you can do the same in race chat / in forum etc... how many guys (especially new) really look at it?
How many active managers are really using it, and how many managers are using it just for payback?

In some days

"provocative"
"I hate your behaviour in groups, I will remember"
"Big mouth and no more, especially in the head"
"calling people sucker as favo"
"no clue just annoying"
"best train and no tempo sucker"
"always the same fucking asshole"
the one we have here
"cry less if someone isn't riding in your favour"

And the really useful comments what are? "ok"? "gw"? "++"? "good try"? "nice escape"?

[Z&B]

Basically I don't see any advantage in giving fair play comments (not votes but comments).

And what's the advantage in giving/receiving votes? I check the fair play history of other teams really, really rarely and even if they got a bunch of negative points and comments..who cares? There is no penalty for being an "unfair" team, as far as I know. Almost every team knows each other..at least the teams who are riding at the same times in general. They don't need a fair play section to know who they like or dislike.
Right now this feature is just here to leave a last comment..a nice one, a funny one, a comment to let off some steam or just being butthurt about small things. Nobody gonna miss it if we delete it, nobody cares if it stays in the game. But, as usual, someone feels offended now and then about a comment. Just don't be so thin-skinned and learn to ignore people. Maybe that's a better option. /ignore big donkey if you can't handle him.

And whoever suggested to disable the race chat get's a negative vote next time I see him in a race.

[luques]

Basically I don't see any advantage in giving fair play comments (not votes but comments).

And what's the advantage in giving/receiving votes? I check the fair play history of other teams really, really rarely and even if they got a bunch of negative points and comments..who cares? There is no penalty for being an "unfair" team, as far as I know. Almost every team knows each other..at least the teams who are riding at the same times in general. They don't need a fair play section to know who they like or dislike.
Right now this feature is just here to leave a last comment..a nice one, a funny one, a comment to let off some steam or just being butthurt about small things. Nobody gonna miss it if we delete it, nobody cares if it stays in the game. But, as usual, someone feels offended now and then about a comment. Just don't be so thin-skinned and learn to ignore people. Maybe that's a better option. /ignore big donkey if you can't handle him.

And whoever suggested to disable the race chat get's a negative vote next time I see him in a race.

The only advantage would be for FPK in case, or for some curious.

The problem isn't learn to ignore people for me, but it is that the tool is mostly neutral / toxic.
The idea itself of ignoring people then would simply lead to what Poke said, private chat.

We can also improve that. For example instead of "fair play votes", I think the FPK would find much more helpful a live fair play vote, for example a system where you can report to them the km where you think the infraction has been made during the race.

[Z&B]

Basically I don't see any advantage in giving fair play comments (not votes but comments).

And what's the advantage in giving/receiving votes? I check the fair play history of other teams really, really rarely and even if they got a bunch of negative points and comments..who cares? There is no penalty for being an "unfair" team, as far as I know. Almost every team knows each other..at least the teams who are riding at the same times in general. They don't need a fair play section to know who they like or dislike.
Right now this feature is just here to leave a last comment..a nice one, a funny one, a comment to let off some steam or just being butthurt about small things. Nobody gonna miss it if we delete it, nobody cares if it stays in the game. But, as usual, someone feels offended now and then about a comment. Just don't be so thin-skinned and learn to ignore people. Maybe that's a better option. /ignore big donkey if you can't handle him.

And whoever suggested to disable the race chat get's a negative vote next time I see him in a race.

The only advantage would be for FPK in case, or for some curious.

The problem isn't learn to ignore people for me, but it is that the tool is mostly neutral / toxic.
The idea itself of ignoring people then would simply lead to what Poke said, private chat.

We can also improve that. For example instead of "fair play votes", I think the FPK would find much more helpful a live fair play vote, for example a system where you can report to them the km where you think the infraction has been made during the race.

Yeah, wasnt really serious with the "ignore" thingy. I doubt more than a couple of people would use it anyway. Deep inside they like to banter/fight.

I always pray to mentally ignore people instead of feeding trolls/troublemakers and I agree that every game/community needs a guideline whats appropriate to say and what not, but it shouldn't be the case that everyone is offended just by one simple sentence or word that most of us answer with a shrug instead of running right into the fairness section. Yeah, I get it. Just because I don't feel offended, doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't.

What does a "live fair play vote" change regarding insults? Does the FPC need a context to make a decision if something is punishable? Probably not a bad idea for unrealistic riding, but then I prefer it as a "soft report" while the race is going and you have to confirm the report at the end of the race. Otherwise its invalid. Just to decrease the amount of unnecessay reports because X didn't understand Y's strategy at the first place, but did it in the end. You know what I mean?

I would love to have a simple timestamp in the chat. That could fix a lot of things regarding the context too. Either time or km.

[scorpsche]

Another "nice" example for unnecessary fp comment.

Bildschirmfoto 2019-07-01 um 09.47.59.png (36.33 KiB) Viewed 2876 times

[team fl]

Before we get too much off-topic, and yes I know I have opened Pandora's Box myself, let's focus on the particular case about Donkey's fair play vote in this thread, while I've opened this thread about fair play votes to continue the general discussion.

[olmania]

Before we get too much off-topic, and yes I know I have opened Pandora's Box myself, let's focus on the particular case about Donkey's fair play vote in this thread, while I've opened this thread about fair play votes to continue the general discussion.

Thanks.
Any decisions has been made, where are the decisions published for the cases ?