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Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2026 2:12 pm
by flockmastoR
Hey there,
while I agree that the calendar should be proactively managed, we should technically avoid situations as just witnessed at RVV 22h.
Having a field split into 12 teams (group 1) and 11 teams (group 2) is the worst possible outcome for all while having a very popular time and a lot of teams.
My proposal: If you don't qualify, you are just unlucky, try next time. The 22 best teams in the inscription will form the peloton, the others simply withdraw from the race. While I agree to have splits in less important races (everyone has the chance to ride at the preferred time) I want to have the best possible lineups at monuments.
Okay maybe this is only great when having exactly 23 teams inscribed. In the RVV case, Quick would have been the unlucky guy, but when you are in division 6, you simple cannot rely to be in a monument field (group 1). In a hypothetical situation when we have something like 35 teams inscribed, maybe different. Why should theses 13 teams then be cut off from the race? Maybe the fair split principle can be changed. not 50%+1 vs rest but change it.
Lets say we always have 75% for group 1, then the split would never drop the group 1 teams under 17, group 2 then would start with 6 teams. That would mean a full 22 rider peloton when having 30 teams with 8 teams in group 2. From then on group 2 would increase.
I would prefer the first one for monuments. Maybe better then reintroducing the divisional qualification criteria (until we want the potential newby destroys a high cat race risk to be eliminated)
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2026 2:25 pm
by Falcor CC
flockmastoR wrote: ↑Tue Apr 07, 2026 2:12 pm
Lets say we always have 75% for group 1, then the split would never drop the group 1 teams under 17, group 2 then would start with 6 teams. That would mean a full 22 rider peloton when having 30 teams with 8 teams in group 2. From then on group 2 would increase.
I prefer this, as it doesn't exclude teams from riding monuments. "But you could ride at another time." No, far from certain for 3-hour races.
Not a fan of excluding teams from riding, unless if it would be division-bound. For example, why should #7 in division 3 be allowed to ride, but #12 in division 3 gets excluded because he is team #23? Not really fair imo, on top of the 'everyone should be allowed and able to ride everyday' argument.
I actually think 75% for group 1 makes a lot of sense.
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2026 2:33 pm
by bergwerk cycling
if its technical: let the split like it is and do the points/money to 75% in 2nd race and it dont give an entry for place 1-3
not riding for teams over 23 is not really nice
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2026 7:17 pm
by Radunion
This is a tricky question. I guess many teams are not unhappy in field 2 and will get more points and money there.
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2026 6:39 am
by drei.zehn
Another aspect:
I am playing via mobile 95% of the time (maybe others do the same) and it always gets trickier in bigger fields.
So if I am inscribed in a 22 team field, I am praying for another team to show up. Doesnt matter the cat
So why are we thinking of changes already before we add a 5th edition?
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2026 10:02 am
by Robyklebt
Split actually was introduced so that the teams that are not in the top 22 can ride as well. So now going back to only top 22... Step backwards. And yes, maybe some would prefer not riding a monument than in group 2. I would prefer riding it in group 2. I buy Kebede for Sanremo, then can't ride it at all? I buy Winzenried for Paris-Roubaix then can't ride it at all? Of course I would rage and insult all the stupid evening people who join the afternoon on weekends, pushing me down to group 2, it wouldn't end, well, after a few fines maybe. But would still attack evening people that join the afternoon on a random race about the time they pushed me down to group 2. But not allowing me to ride it at all? The raging and insulting would never end, I'd sue everybody in a c4f court, demand 7 millions (half in real money, can be yen too) and 14h+15h for every race, both offered. Sort of like I demanded that the Vuelta be only offered in the afternoon after the scandalous cancellation in 09. Unfortunately leso never complied.... And yeah, I probably then would simply boycott the monument I wasn't allowed to ride once. You don't want me? You don't get me.
With that proposal you actually should be banned from the forum, it's that stupid. Or pay a fine.
Work with more and less editions.
If it's sort of... "hm, what will happen not big numbers but still split danger" like now, different solutions:
-Do nothing, maybe there's a split and some ride group 2, let them rage. Less rage than not allowed to race. And well, if you're not good enough to be in D1, or in D2... (which risked group 2 in Sanremo) tough luck.
-think about changing the split to by Division, so uneven possible, but then Sanremo afternoon at least would have had all D2 teams in group 1. But if then it's 17-6 not good either.
-think about offering a parallel race, only D4 plus (or D3plus) maybe some who don't really care about cycling, just like the game (think Allagen, as far as I know he knows about as much about cycling as me about American Football, possibly a bit more though) might start there, 2 minigroups, enough to relieve the pressure from the split danger. And when you go up to 5, then cut those safety valves until it becomes critical again. And once we have 150, 200 regular players, re-introduce the monument only D1-5, parallel races the rest.
Done, issue solved, wait for the forum ban for everybody that supports "max 22 people can ride a monument at one time".
But never this 22, those that don't qualify can't race (at that time, which sometimes means at all)
Also this is simply in the wrong subforum. This one here is badly named, by me, sorry, but it's really about the flash to react transition. Would like to change the name but the few times I asked didn't get a go ahead by any of the game admins.
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2026 11:10 am
by flockmastoR
Robyklebt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2026 10:02 am
Split actually was introduced so that the teams that are not in the top 22 can ride as well. So now going back to only top 22... Step backwards. And yes, maybe some would prefer not riding a monument than in group 2. I would prefer riding it in group 2. I buy Kebede for Sanremo, then can't ride it at all? I buy Winzenried for Paris-Roubaix then can't ride it at all? Of course I would rage and insult all the stupid evening people who join the afternoon on weekends, pushing me down to group 2, it wouldn't end, well, after a few fines maybe. But would still attack evening people that join the afternoon on a random race about the time they pushed me down to group 2. But not allowing me to ride it at all? The raging and insulting would never end, I'd sue everybody in a c4f court, demand 7 millions (half in real money, can be yen too) and 14h+15h for every race, both offered. Sort of like I demanded that the Vuelta be only offered in the afternoon after the scandalous cancellation in 09. Unfortunately leso never complied.... And yeah, I probably then would simply boycott the monument I wasn't allowed to ride once. You don't want me? You don't get me.
With that proposal you actually should be banned from the forum, it's that stupid. Or pay a fine.
Work with more and less editions.
If it's sort of... "hm, what will happen not big numbers but still split danger" like now, different solutions:
-Do nothing, maybe there's a split and some ride group 2, let them rage. Less rage than not allowed to race. And well, if you're not good enough to be in D1, or in D2... (which risked group 2 in Sanremo) tough luck.
-think about changing the split to by Division, so uneven possible, but then Sanremo afternoon at least would have had all D2 teams in group 1. But if then it's 17-6 not good either.
-think about offering a parallel race, only D4 plus (or D3plus) maybe some who don't really care about cycling, just like the game (think Allagen, as far as I know he knows about as much about cycling as me about American Football, possibly a bit more though) might start there, 2 minigroups, enough to relieve the pressure from the split danger. And when you go up to 5, then cut those safety valves until it becomes critical again. And once we have 150, 200 regular players, re-introduce the monument only D1-5, parallel races the rest.
Done, issue solved, wait for the forum ban for everybody that supports "max 22 people can ride a monument at one time".
But never this 22, those that don't qualify can't race (at that time, which sometimes means at all)
Also this is simply in the wrong subforum. This one here is badly named, by me, sorry, but it's really about the flash to react transition. Would like to change the name but the few times I asked didn't get a go ahead by any of the game admins.
I simply find it idiotic to have a 12 teams monument on a time that has potential for a big group. Nothing more, nothing less.
It wouldn't make smart calendar planning obsolet, just as an additional safety guard. I would be angry if I get into group 2 monument being in division 2 while there would be a chance to be in group 1 just because division 6 quick inscribes and is offline then the whole race. If I end up in group 2 I am pissed anyways, no matter if there are 11 or 6 teams riding there.
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2026 2:00 pm
by Pokemon Club
Why having a limit at 22 teams ? In the past that could be logic as we had way more players but currently we have what ? 24-25 wheb there is a split ? We can put the limit at 25 or 26 teams as a temporarly solution and then find another way to do for that in my opinion
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2026 2:39 pm
by Robyklebt
Pokemon Club wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2026 2:00 pm
Why having a limit at 22 teams ? In the past that could be logic as we had way more players but currently we have what ? 24-25 wheb there is a split ? We can put the limit at 25 or 26 teams as a temporarly solution and then find another way to do for that in my opinion
Only a temporary solution, a very temporary one. Because now it was 23 once, if Uomo Nero hadn't changed for Sanremo to avoid a split would have been twice. It just takes 2 more teams, that is nothing, then next we have the same problem, 26 teams inscribed... split, and we're back here. Could already happen for Roubaix (unlikely, as pavé race not THAT popular) or then Amstel.
Btw, double posting by Pokemon, will delete one, since it's exactly the same thing twice.
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2026 3:54 pm
by Pokemon Club
Robyklebt wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2026 2:39 pm
Pokemon Club wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2026 2:00 pm
Why having a limit at 22 teams ? In the past that could be logic as we had way more players but currently we have what ? 24-25 wheb there is a split ? We can put the limit at 25 or 26 teams as a temporarly solution and then find another way to do for that in my opinion
Only a temporary solution, a very temporary one. Because now it was 23 once, if Uomo Nero hadn't changed for Sanremo to avoid a split would have been twice. It just takes 2 more teams, that is nothing, then next we have the same problem, 26 teams inscribed... split, and we're back here. Could already happen for Roubaix (unlikely, as pavé race not THAT popular) or then Amstel.
Btw, double posting by Pokemon, will delete one, since it's exactly the same thing twice.
Thanks Donkey.
So I guess it is possible to code something like "if we have more than 24 teams inscribe, we split on 2 group starting the 23th teams, if less or equal than 24 we have only one group", like that we are sure that we have no team that can't race and we have at least the 22 best teams of the timrs.
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2026 8:07 pm
by RC Hachen
Do i remember right in the past, about 2010, there where the monuments just allowed to inscribe for div 4 and higher?
Instead there were also races at the same day which just allowed div 5-6 to inscribe? But sure at that time we got more players.
So someone who wanna ride in two or three months a monument has to work for getting in div 4 and new players get the chance sometimes to ride just in the lower brackets?
Re: Overthinking Split Logic in big races
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2026 7:01 am
by Bugatti
Isn't it possible to disable the splits for Cat 5 and 6?