There are no good reasons to keep the mintact

[Quick]

Thought about making a long detailed post about why I'd scrap it but who cares anyway. Generally in my races, there's always crying about too much mintact, not too less. So, let's act or at least speak about it.

If anyone has reasons pro mintact, I'll happily tell you, why I disagree.

Stuff like not being able to react in 30s is a skill issue though.

Reasons for scrapping: races take loooong. Many old managers have a life by now. Elaska is even concerned some managers neglect their children.

So 1-0 for scrapping.

[Schnuggeritos]

I think it's always about the race / profile type. 100% flat races might but for most of the races we talk about 5 - 10 additional / less minutes of racing. Does it make such a difference? Don't see the positive effect for those races. There are def. some races where a long mintact sucks, as there won't be any action or the decision is done anyway.
To solve this: discuss mintact when races are fresh designed and/or add a new feauture to move mintact within first few minutes of a race of a certain part of teams vote for it (e.g. 2/3 majority). If vote is successful it can be something like 5 or 6 km before finish line.

Stuff like not being able to react in 30s is a skill issue though.

Don't think there was ever any discussion about skill issue. It's more a thing of work / private life and/or bad internet connection.

Elaska is even concerned some managers neglect their children.

Some people will say that you can manage your private matters at one-minute intervals rather than being connected to the device virtually all the time.

No for scrapping. Yes for better solution e.g. vote-to-move-system
So 1 - 1 and 1 - 0

[lennylenny]

i definitely hate the 30km mintact some are putting in their designs as default. if you need 30km mintact on a flat race it is definitely a skill issue.
30 second tact in the end can be very hectic, but one can definitely argue that the final kms of a real race are often very hectic aswell.
As for a voting system i would suggest a system that stays open for the first half of the race and has multiple options, both for shortening mintact and abolishing it completely.
My vote goes split between voting system and abolishing
1.5 - 1.5 - 0

[flockmastoR]

Splitter!

Mintact is cosy, it's like driving home for Christmas!

[Radunion]

In my view, long min-tact makes it more difficult to handle surprises. I have no problem staying on the game for 15 or 20 minutes in the decisive phase of the game. If it is half an hour or more it is more likely I get surprised. Flexible min-tact would make sense for me. So maybe after each km +6 and more (beginning at a point the designer sets).

[ATB - Racing]

really wanted to take that thread serious, well i did until reading that part:

Elaska is even concerned some managers neglect their children.

good one, smiled.

pro flexible mintact!!!

and yeah sometimes a minute is to less time for me. yeah, lacking skill on my side

[Laugenspitze]

Stuff like not being able to react in 30s is a skill issue though.

Don't think there was ever any discussion about skill issue. It's more a thing of work / private life and/or bad internet connection.

For me, it's a skill issue. For certain reasons, I sometimes can't really focus, and then making decisions within 30 seconds becomes a challenge (and no, even if I had multiple teams simultaneously, like some people, to train my skills, it wouldn’t change the situation). Nevertheless, there are unnecessary, endlessly long minute intervals. A flexible system would be cool, where as a race designer, you could also react to one or another tricky situation in the middle of the race. Maybe tied to a maximum number of minute-interval kilometers? And then there’s also the sprint, which happens right after the race. Another issue entirely.

Splitter!
Mintact is cosy, it's like driving home for Christmas!

100 %
But there are many other things that have been lost over time, likely due to societal changes.

Elaska is even concerned some managers neglect their children.

good one, smiled.

Maybe more then only their children???

pro flexible mintact!!!
and yeah sometimes a minute is too less time for me. yeah, lacking skill on my side

100%

[bergwerk cycling]

My opinion to make better use of my ever-shortening time:

Shortened many of the Cat 1-2 races to 15 !!! seconds after the first 10 kilometers
and only went back to 30 seconds if there was an attack or a Sieb.

[Quick]

Yea, about the voting thingy

Nice idea but if you can't programm one, you're just kinda killing the discussion.

Options are: mintact or no mintact.

Feel free to discuss ideas, we can't implement yet but be aware that this usually leads to absolutely nothing - at least in the short-midterm.

[Robyklebt]

How about sensible mintact vs no mintact. Too often we don't have sensible one. Which is minimum 30 km for those that aren't up to date

Instead we get stuff like 10km. Can somebody tell me the point of a 10 km mintact? I fail to see any. 5 km? I fail to see any. It's just pro forma at that point. Then we rather cut it. As the Donkey does when he has to design a criterium.

Sadly of course in long races a longer mintact makes more sense, while in short races a short one, or none, makes perfect sense.
- A 250 km race, at 50 km from the end you enter the critical phase, controlling teams have used up riders, the helping ones are weakened, attacks by fit or fittish riders can turn out to be dangerous, you have to try to keep your final riders as long as possible. 30" tact, you miss a km, people in office, people who go for a pee, people who have a short talk with family members, people who have quickie with Quick, people who hang out on other sites for mysterious reasons and miss 3', people who are cooking at the same time, they all need to forget all those other things, can't miss a km. Critical phase, all dangerous. 40 km from home even more, 30 km again more.
- A 100 km race, 20 km from the end? You can go for a shit and miss nothing, the race is basically on autopilot, high tempo from km 1, if it's a lazy race from km 30, you basically know what you want to do, thinking not required anymore really. Attack km 93, can put that in before I take my shit, it's rather predictable what will happen on km 93. Or if you want to chase, then put in off settings.

So those "time saving" freaks, that occasionally say that on short races they are ok with longer mintacts are in my as usual insulting opinion complete idiots. Who simply haven't understood when mintacts make sense and when not.

As for voting stuff, forget it. So we get a race with 10 km mintact and according to Lenny we get the option to keep it or shorten it? But not to prolong it? And even if we sensibly get the option to prolong it, who needs the endless voting discussions, who needs the endless whining by those that then come late because the race finishes 10 minutes earlier, who needs the endless whining of those that wanted a 5 km mintact (for whatever reason, it makes no sense) and now are stuck with 22! If you have time to whine about the long mintact here you have nothing better to do offline anyway, we might as well go back to all mintact!

So the Donkey says: NO to short mintacts.
First choice: Sensible mintacts!
Second choice: No mintacts.
Can liveve with both, but not with those super shorts mintacts, that make no sense (well can live with them too, have to, but they make no sense)

But be aware that no mintact changes the game. It changes from a strategy game to a reaction game in some ways.

Seriously wondering if somebody can explain to me the point of 10 km mintacts btw.

[Elaska]

I ve seen most of people complaining often only about RKL mintacts, 30km on flat stages

The problem is RKL then not the mintacts

[Gipfelstuermer]

Easy solution: Design more races. The designer sets the mintact.