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Hello

With the day change, all teams with 0 points and value to sell some riders seems wrong also.

high pave riders have inflated value

I changed division and lost all points!

i add another thing i noticed.. lot of 34 year olds still on the transfer market and not retired

Wenn ich es richtig gesehen habe, sind 39 jährige, die 40 werden nicht einfach weg, sondern werden automatisch verkauft.
War früher anders, finde ich so aber eigentlich auch fairer.

Bugatti wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 02, 2025 5:31 pm

Wenn ich es richtig gesehen habe, sind 39 jährige, die 40 werden nicht einfach weg, sondern werden automatisch verkauft.
War früher anders, finde ich so aber eigentlich auch fairer.

Finde das auch gut

More riders are sold now with high pavé and high amount. It's getting very difficult now react to this as there are still teams which like to use the bug or dont know about this.

Another bug for selling riders: some riders can be sold for more than there value (thats different to the to high value for some riders) for example:

⚑ Fahrer Climbing Flat Downhill TimeTrial Sprint Cobbles Regeneration Alter↓ Gehalt Wert Red. Preis
CH Oskar Althaus 39 76 65 40 33 67 48 39 $25,000 $513,393 X $691,625

Hansa wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 03, 2025 9:23 pm

Another bug for selling riders: some riders can be sold for more than there value (thats different to the to high value for some riders) for example:

⚑ Fahrer Climbing Flat Downhill TimeTrial Sprint Cobbles Regeneration Alter↓ Gehalt Wert Red. Preis
CH Oskar Althaus 39 76 65 40 33 67 48 39 $25,000 $513,393 X $691,625

Have a guy nearly the same with around 40% tax:
Hyman Buller 40 77 50 49 43 69.2 41 36 years $25,000 $618,926 X $596,095

Think you have a higher tax than me Hansa. Buller would bring around +200.000$ with the bug. If I calculate right.
Possibly higher age and higher tax play a role in the case of these riders?

Bugatti wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 02, 2025 5:31 pm

Wenn ich es richtig gesehen habe, sind 39 jährige, die 40 werden nicht einfach weg, sondern werden automatisch verkauft.
War früher anders, finde ich so aber eigentlich auch fairer.

Right, new feature

Pokemon Club wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 01, 2025 9:34 am

Hello

With the day change, all teams with 0 points and value to sell some riders seems wrong also.

fixed

Servicio Médico wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 02, 2025 3:16 pm

i add another thing i noticed.. lot of 34 year olds still on the transfer market and not retired

fixed

lennylenny wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:30 am

high pave riders have inflated value

At the moment I rather think that we had a too low value for pave riders all the time. I fixed the pavé calculation recently in one central place, while Buhmann was calculating it in many places, in TM generation in one way, on month change on another way. But let me know, if you think I'm wrong, maybe the pave price calculation requires some improvement. Or maybe I misunderstood the problem completely

Alkworld wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:47 pm

At the moment I rather think that we had a too low value for pave riders all the time. I fixed the pavé calculation recently in one central place, while Buhmann was calculating it in many places, in TM generation in one way, on month change on another way. But let me know, if you think I'm wrong, maybe the pave price calculation requires some improvement.

Can you give me or us the market value before the month change and after of some riders?
Because looking at my team it seems rather wrong. Very wrong.

Custodio Fortuny 30 $52,484 $3,277,039 58 84 50 51 52 83.4 37
Camille Roy 28 $58,421 $2,723,228 65 85 68 47 44 75.1 61

Fortuny, 2 years older, which affects the value, stronger only in TT (+4), sprint (+8), weaker in mountain (-7) flat (-1) downhill (-18)...From these main skills alone he should be cheaper. Then add pavé, +8.3 and Reg, -24, and all of the sudden he is worth 250k more? Weird. The Reg alone should more than make up for the pavé.

So personnally think there's no way this can be correct. Sure in the centralizing some weird mistake didn't sneak in?

Edit: The salary ignores the age, just the pure skills plus points of the previous season. Fortuny had 17, Roy 0, so pretty negligible in my example. That shows that the former system regarded Roy as better, same age he would be more valuable, being 2 years younger even a bit more. NOt sure by how much, doubt it's a simple percentage calculation....
Again, a comparison on how it was before the month change would help.

Alkworld wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:47 pm

lennylenny wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:30 am

high pave riders have inflated value

At the moment I rather think that we had a too low value for pave riders all the time. I fixed the pavé calculation recently in one central place, while Buhmann was calculating it in many places, in TM generation in one way, on month change on another way. But let me know, if you think I'm wrong, maybe the pave price calculation requires some improvement. Or maybe I misunderstood the problem completely

Don't agree. As someone very interested in pavés riders I think their value was pretty high before.
for example If I compare my two riders right now, 66-79 52spr 79.6pav 44reg 24yrs vs 72-80 64spr 70.1pav 58reg 31yrs. there's no logical (game logic) explanation for why the 1st rider is 1 million more expensive than the second.

Alkworld wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:47 pm

lennylenny wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:30 am

high pave riders have inflated value

At the moment I rather think that we had a too low value for pave riders all the time. I fixed the pavé calculation recently in one central place, while Buhmann was calculating it in many places, in TM generation in one way, on month change on another way. But let me know, if you think I'm wrong, maybe the pave price calculation requires some improvement. Or maybe I misunderstood the problem completely

You put a minimum value for riders ? My Karl Appela and Jessy Pinkman are ok with both 300.000$ selling value ?

Alkworld wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:47 pm

I fixed the pavé calculation recently in one central place, while Buhmann was calculating it in many places, in TM generation in one way, on month change on another way.

This part: The reason for the different calculation was that buying strong pavé riders was too cheap. So in their youth (not sure until when) their value was "artificially" put higher. So that you couldn't buy a guy like your Garrigou for virtually nothing. I mean 48-74-63-49-46 with 47 reg is nothing special. But with his pavé, 75.8, 80 internal pavé, he is of course worth a lot more. Those guys under the "general" pavé value calculation turned out to be way too cheap to buy. Now I suspect you took the "inflated" youth value for everybody, the result being that guys like Fortuny really are worth too much. So we have the same problem as we had before the inflation of the price. They are too cheap when they are young. Price the same as it used to be, I think, but when you sell them you get way more than you used too. Which makes them long-term cheap. Similar thing as before (meaning before Buhmann put in that transfer "inflation" for young pavé riders), just with a higher up front price, that will be refunded (partially at least) later.

Alkworld wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2025 6:47 pm

lennylenny wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 01, 2025 11:30 am

high pave riders have inflated value

At the moment I rather think that we had a too low value for pave riders all the time. I fixed the pavé calculation recently in one central place, while Buhmann was calculating it in many places, in TM generation in one way, on month change on another way. But let me know, if you think I'm wrong, maybe the pave price calculation requires some improvement. Or maybe I misunderstood the problem completely

currently the top pave rider are in Value around the top climbers, thats way to much for a pave rider.

My not top pave rider:

3,303,619 48,669 50 87 76 50 50 82.8 40 28 years

a flat pave rider with no secondary skill worth 3.3M thats more than most of the top classics and thats without any secondary skills.

thats a rider i payed 1.5M btw

I guess it helps to know how the calculation actually looks like (that's the one that has always been used for new TM riders, but slightly different from month change). One more note: "pow (x, y)" is an exponential expression in PHP, i.e. x ^ y ("x hoch y").

$pave = $paveReal * 0.3 + $flach * 0.7;
$preis = 0;
$preis = $preis + pow(45 + ($zeit - 45) * pow($berg, 2.96) / 550000 + $berg + $regeneration / 2, 3.9) * 200;
$flachpreis = (pow($flach, 4.62)) * 20;
$bergpreis = (pow($berg, 5.75)) / 4;
$zeitpreis = (pow($zeit, 7.28)) / 3436;
$sprintpreis = (pow($sprint, 6.21)) / 35 + ($sprint - 45) * 100 * 29000 * 40;
$regenerationpreis = (pow($regeneration, 2.3)) * 300;
$abfahrtpreis = (pow($abfahrt, 3)) * 8000;
$paveExtraPreis = 0;
if ($pave > 70) $paveExtraPreis = (25 - 21) * pow($pave - 70, 1.5) * 11000 * 29000;
if ($paveExtraPreis <= 0) $paveExtraPreis = 0;
$preis = ($paveExtraPreis + $preis + $flachpreis + $bergpreis + $zeitpreis + $sprintpreis + $regenerationpreis + $abfahrtpreis) / 29000;
$preis = $preis - ((($age - 25) * 100000 - ((pow(($age - 21), 2.28)))) / (3000000 / $preis));

Old calculation at month change (unfortunately in SQL now, different programming language and superbly formatted):
UPDATE allefahrer SET preis = (POW((45+(zeit-45)*POW(berg,2.96)/550000+GREATEST(berg,40)+regeneration/2),3.9)*200+POW(GREATEST(flach,40),4.62)*20 + GREATEST(0,POW(GREATEST(0, (pave*0.3+flach*0.7)-70), 2.1))*60*29000*40 - GREATEST(0, (70-(pave*0.3+flach*0.7))*100*29000*40) + POW(GREATEST(berg,40),5.75)/4+POW(GREATEST(zeit,40),7.28)/3436+POW(GREATEST(sprint,40),6.21)/35 + GREATEST(0, (sprint-45)*100*29000*40) +POW(regeneration,2.3)*300+POW(GREATEST(abfahrt,40),3)*8000)/29000 -( ((age-25)*100000-((pow((age-21),2.28))))/(3000000/preis) )+150*pkt2


Edit: When I sometimes say I can't just change things, this is one of those calculations where it's not that obvious what'll happen if I change it slightly

Hilly Pave riders are now worth about as much as weaker gc climbers climbers, of all active riders the top 18 are climbers with decent TT and alao decent reg, then from p19 onwards many 60-85 style riders with 83+ Pave mixed with gc climbers
See Rankireddy: 62-87-64-50-65-85.2-47 with market value of 4.22M

another example, both same age:
Eveshgaran Vasigaran 71-82-60-51-48-78.7-55 3,923,708

Marton Spree 71-81-65-54-55-70.2-61 3,144,526

are those 8.5 Pave and 1 flat really worth 5 DH, 3 TT, 7 Sprint, 6 Reg and nearly 800k?

This means that the inherent pave value is nearly free for young riders and gets expensive with training. This just makes it lucrative to train pave riders for low-tax teams. For bigger teams high pave cost means more tax as this kind of rider is seldom sold young as long as the wages remain low. So if you want to change it make the price dependent on the inherent pave value and maybe increase the wages. Compared with other leaders pave leaders are very cheap to ride.

yeah the value of higher pave guys is way off ... cliff kinnen is now my most valuable rider while hes not particularly great at anything and with 81 pave not even that great there ... he is by no means more valuable than my climbers and classics .. let alone worth 3.6 million to begin with

Unfortunately Donks is not a mathematician, but a genius with many weaknesses, so of course he understands only railway station

I guess this is the difference?

Alkworld wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:44 pm

if ($pave > 70) $paveExtraPreis = (25 - 21) * pow($pave - 70, 1.5) * 11000 * 29000;

while old value is this?

Alkworld wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 08, 2025 7:44 pm

+ GREATEST(0,POW(GREATEST(0, (pave*0.3+flach*0.7)-70), 2.1))*60*29000*40 - GREATEST(0, (70-(pave*0.3+flach*0.7))*100*29000*40)

Unfortunately your low level genius Donks has no clue what this does exactly, just that it's probably this price inflation for riders until 25??? (but then why are now all more expensive regardless of age?) on the transfer market.
IMO any way not to change the old value calculatation, but implement it as well, as Buhmann did, not centrally but in the different places would be the most effective (but maybe not elegant) solution.

and overall i never thought pave riders are too cheap .. if you buy young riders that already have good pave at the start they were always more expensive ..and the real cost of pave riders comes in salary anyway.. outside of pave races they offer no more than non pave riders but you pay a premium for them without any benefit