sprint again

[Team ABC-Polsat]

Power? Form? Last km was even, downhill, uphill?

And I always ask myself: How do you know the exact difference of the sprintskill between sprinting from 500m and from 50m?

"Anleitung" http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/ ... php#sprint

[flockmastoR]

Power? Form? Last km was even, downhill, uphill?

And I always ask myself: How do you know the exact difference of the sprintskill between sprinting from 500m and from 50m?

its writen in the Anleitung, if its wrong, buhmann should tell us "it's wrong". He doesnt have to say how it is actually but just tell us if this is still right? But he only shows up to say "nothing changed", he doesn't comment any bug-assumtion, he shows no interesst to clarify the case not here and not in other cases (trainings fell out for a team that achieved the criteria to get out of 7b, team doesnt get out, no training for the team).

[team fl]

Power? Form? Last km was even, downhill, uphill?

And I always ask myself: How do you know the exact difference of the sprintskill between sprinting from 500m and from 50m?

"Anleitung" http://www.cycling4freaks.com/radsport/ ... php#sprint

Oh, didn't see that one, thanks.

[Zentaron]

Energy was less than 100 more, think it was something like 50 or 60 more for PeterMeter, the ascent i already had written.

So, even if we say that 100 energy are worth 4 sprint points he is still nearly 8 points ahead. Then maybe form, just 4 left. But 15 hill points are 4 sprint points on a +2? I can't believe. And the 4 are really benevolent calculated for the 59, I think.

Other thing: Watch the pic again and look for the sprinter of chain. He had less energy than the one of Velo but is ahead of the 59. At the photofinish chain was a complete bike length ahead of the 59, Velo was short behind the 59 with same sprint value and better flatvalue and therefore better energy for Velo (had something like 40 or 50 more than the other sprinters). We discussed the energy after the race, so i know this.

[team fl]

Ok, I just keep on playing devil's advocate:

Let's assume the worst: He has 100 power less, it's a +2 , his form is 85, his opponents 100:

Roman: 65 Moutain (+2Form) at a +2 (let's say that makes up 4 sprintpoints vs. Carlos), Power 1000, 59 Sprint + 2Form, + 6,5fromWheel. -> 71.5

Against:

Carlos: 50 Mountain(-2From) at a +2, Power 900 (-4 as you said), 92 Sprint - 2Form, no wheel, -9 because sprinting at 50m, -6 random. -> 71



Who knows... But very unlikely indeed

[Zentaron]

But he had not 100 energy less. He had more than chains sprinter.
Yes, my calculation was with 100 energy less, but it was just to show that even this is nearly impossible.
And as I said: I can't believe that 15 more hill points should be worth 4 sprint points on a +2.

[Radunion]

I believe the 4 more sprint points are too less for +2, simply because the difference is too big. Just assume that for the sprint counts 1/10 mountain and 9/10 sprint, than the sprinter has an effective sprint value

1/10 * 50 + 9/10 * 92 = 87.8

already more than 4 points less. If it is 1/5 mointain, 4/5 flat (this is more likely in my opinion) it is

1/5 * 50 + 4/5 * 92 = 83.6

this is 8.4 sprint points less while the other rider gets a small bonus for having more mountain than sprint. If you take this into account the outcome of the sprint is far from impossible.

[Zentaron]

Nice calculation which could explain it a bit, but does not make it more realistic on a simple +2!
And furthermore due to my experience I believe that it can't be that way.
However, if it is that way you show, mountain on these terrain is much too important.
But okay, maybe an explanation, thank you. If it is this way we have to change to the technics part of the forum.^^


...

After thinking a bit while writing this, i decided that there is still something strange in your explanation.^^ (Yes, i can't stop thinking about. )

Roman: 65 Moutain (+2Form) at a +2 Power 1000, 59 Sprint + 2Form, + 6,5fromWheel
lets' calculate: 67 mountain (due to form)*1/5+61 sprint (due to form)*4/5+round about 7 for the wheel = 76,2
Carlos 48 mountain (due to form)*1/5+90 sprint (due to form)*4/5-9 for 50m-3 for energy= 69,6

So far, so good

The photo showed it was very close between them, so maybe Roman now got the -6 by random which explains the close result then.

Now chain:
52 mountain (due to form, if it is best maybe)*1/5+94 sprint(form)*4/5-9 (50m)-4 (energy, had less than Carlos)=72,6

chain now is 2 points stronger than Carlos if he got 0 random and Carlos max malus.
At the photo he was a whole bike length ahead. 2 points are no whole bike length.

So in comparison of each of the three your calculation also does not fit.

[Radunion]

It was just a wild guess. I assume that buh's calculation is much more complicated and much uglier.

[Zentaron]

Yeah yeah, i know. It was a try of explanation and it was a good one for sure, which i never thought about in that way.

There are just two things that are strange in my eyes.

1.) A +2 should not be that deciding when there are that much differences in the sprint value.
2.) The comparison of the three riders does not fit in any calculation we try.