New UCI Calendar

[Gipfelstuermer]

Surprised nobody else started the discussion, yet, but let's talk about the new UCI calendar:

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-re ... -calendar/

Racing (which was completely cancelled after Paris-Nice) resumes on 1st August with all the big classics & Grand Tours. Some uncertainty remains of course!

Do we ride old calendar until 31st July and switch to new calendar on 1st August? Or do we stick to old calendar for complete 2020?

It is an unprecedented situation and not an easy decision for calendar organizers. I totally see the point to stick to old calendar for complete 2020 because that is what we did so far. But so far we did it because there were no real races at all. On the other hand, what many players love about the game, and how we attract new managers, is that you can ride the real race on the real date in C4F. People watch Le Tour in real life and then they want to play it on the computer, because they link real life and C4F. So I came up with some arguments for switching to new calendar by 1st August IF AND ONLY IF it seems realistic around COVID-19 situation:

- In General: Real race on real date principle.
- Marketing: Attract new players for C4F during real events. Impossible with fantasy races instead of real races.
- Avoid boring off-season: Longer on-season until mid of November, shorter off-season/winter.
- Delay is not too long: Yes, riders age faster than in real life, but new calendar has only 1-2 months delay for large events like Vuelta and Lombardia.
- Largest events twice, so no problem for team planning: Most teams plan their teams around the spring classics, Giro and Le Tour. But they would happen twice in this case, so not too much reason for complaining that riders age too fast.
- Big races are never boring: Yes, we would ride some races twice, but monuments and grand tours will always have enough players. Even if some may ride them twice in a year. We can also adjust number of editions, if we believe that less people want to ride it.
- We can wait our decision until July: We do not have to decide now. We can wait a bit how COVID-19 develops and if new UCI calendar is really going to happen. We can also wait how number of players develops in the game. Should be OK if we continue with old calendar until July and adjust then.

[GreenMotion]

I can live with your arguments very well.
However, one thing would be desirable for me.
"The decision should be made as early as possible (in July).
Will sell my team after the Giro and reposition for Sept-Nov for white. (TdF, Vuelta, Anden)

best regards
Jäger-LeCultre

[Pokemon Club]

Well Gipfel you should stop with that.
UCI announced a new calendar ? Okay. But the first thing I see is Dauphine in August, when in France the government announced already that competition is forbidden until September. So we ride a false calendar ?
What about all the races that are cancel ? We just ride fantasy until August ? So we can all stop RSF now with the high probability never comeback in 3 months ?

[Robyklebt]

We just ride fantasy until August ?

Clearly that's not what he wrote.

[Pokemon Club]

We just ride fantasy until August ?

Clearly that's not what he wrote.

He didn't wrote that but that debate is in my opinion uselsss as all governments don't know how will be the situation in 3 or 4 months. They even don't know how it will be in one week.
Currently I see 2 options :
- the original calendar. We know all the date of every race until the end of the season.
- a mix between the original calendar until end of July, and the new calendar starting August. So ride some races twice, calendar that will maybe be cancel in some weeks because we don't know when this situation will end, and because UCI doesn't have the last word in this story.

What we do if we don't ride TDF in July, but announced the season is over the last week of July for example ?
What is the benefit to take such a risk ?

[Gipfelstuermer]

Well, if all think debate is useless and we 100% for sure stick to old 2020 calendar until end of 2020, I am fine with that.

Just wanted to discuss option to ride old calendar until July 31st and ride new calendar starting August 1st. And sounds to me like you see that as an option, too, poke.

Always good to collect some opinions in my point of view. Decision of course for Roby/luques.

[Hansa]

I would say we stick with the old calender. To risky to change now and at the end the races still get cancelled. Espacially with many races already ridden wouldnt like to have giro and tdf to ride twice a year same for the classic races. Also the old calender was better balenced than the new one.

[el Galactico]

I still have the same opinion as well. Let us use the original calendar and not change it this year.

The one the UCI put out now will not hold long anyway.

Idefix has a point though with the marketing

Marketing: many more important things to do to attract new players. And does a game that has no future so far by the end of the year need to attract new players?

[olmania]

The idea of adapting RSF to that new calendar could be tempting for some reasons as mentionned. But we are absolutely not sure it would bring new players on the long term to switch to that "new calendar".
Also, I think most new players are somehow into cycling, and could understand they ride the usual calendar instead of that new calendar that makes all season fit in 3 months.

And as mentionned, that new calendar could bring crazy situations that would not be easy to fix and debate : totally unsure that calendar won't change in the coming months, palmares, points per year, team building plans, money balance eventually, long races all year long, lots of GT time outside of traditional holiday times, GT overlapping or WT races overlapping in autumn (when we usually loose many seasonal teams and groups gets smaller), etc.

So, I think it's better to stick to the planned calendar, especially that we have most info to make it happen properly in RSF.

ps: and RSF would be the only place where the Vuelta still have a start abroad !

[Bear]

My opinion:

Keep the original planned calendar for 2020.

Next year we can start again with the new uci calendar 2021.

The cut has to be done during offseason. Otherwise it will be chaos and a never ending discussion for each month.

[Robyklebt]

While it's nice to ride parallel to the real race, the idea to change to the new calendar from August on..... highly unconvinced, and unless there is a big huge enormous majority for that it won't happen. Doesn't seem to be the case anyway. So won't argue that. Even if I'm tempted

1 thing that IMO though is possible and can/should be discussed. What to do with races that stay in the same month, but different date. Lombardia basically, not sure if there are others, probably not. Seems planned for the 31st of October now, originally was on the 10th. That yes, that we can and I think should move back 3 weeks, to the new real date. At least if in September the plan still looks like this.

[team fl]

So did I understand it right: The races we have already ridden will not be ridden again. But all other race will stay as forseen before the corona-changes?

[Robyklebt]

OK, Sibiu and Tour de l'Ain on "old" UCI calendar dates instead of new dates... Don't really like it and would love to switch to new UCI calendar but if we are consistent and continue like that... I can live with that. I'm just one of those who love to ride the real race in RSF on the real date for fun... sometimes even watching the race in TV in paralllel... anyway, I accept it!

From the July thread...

You keep trying eh?

But pretty much everybody seems to agree not to ride races twice. Double Giro, double Tour etc.
What about races that haven't been ridden yet but have a new date now?
Ok, that can be an option, but it's kind of messy too.


Overview of rescheduled races. From PCS, deleted races that have been ridden already, probably deleted too much or too little but ok.
And not sure if all is correct and finalized and will stay either.

# Startdate Original startdate Race Class

9 2020-08-05 2020-07-05 Tour de Pologne 2.UWT
10 2020-08-05 2020-10-07 Milano-Torino 1.Pro
13 2020-08-07 2020-07-30 Tour de l'Ain 2.1
18 2020-08-12 2020-10-08 Gran Piemonte 1.Pro
24 2020-08-15 2020-10-10 Il Lombardia 1.UWT
29 2020-08-16 2020-07-18 VOO-Tour de Wallonie 2.Pro
31 2020-08-18 2020-10-18 Giro dell'Emilia 1.Pro
37 2020-08-25 2020-08-23 Bretagne Classic - Ouest-France 1.UWT
40 2020-08-27 2020-08-25 Tour Poitou-Charentes en Nouvelle Aquitaine 2.1
43 2020-08-29 2020-08-26 Druivenkoers - Overijse 1.1
45 2020-08-29 2020-09-20 Trofeo Matteotti 1.1
48 2020-08-30 2020-08-29 Brussels Cycling Classic 1.Pro
50 2020-08-30 2020-09-19 Memorial Marco Pantani 1.1
57 2020-09-01 2020-08-11 PostNord Danmark Rundt - Tour of Denmark 2.Pro
66 2020-09-16 2020-09-09 Giro della Toscana - Memorial Alfredo Martini 1.1
67 2020-09-17 2020-09-03 Giro di Basilicata 2.1
76 2020-09-29 2020-08-31 BinckBank Tour 2.UWT
80 2020-10-03 2020-08-16 EuroEyes Cyclassics Hamburg 1.UWT
96 2020-10-12 2020-07-23 Prueba Villafranca-Ordiziako Klasika 1.1
104 2020-10-20 2020-08-14 La Vuelta ciclista a España 2.UWT
109 2020-10-25 2020-04-12 Paris-Roubaix 1.UWT
112 2020-11-05 2020-10-15 Gree-Tour of Guangxi 2.UWT


Let's see:
Problem 1 is clearly the Vuelta. What counted for the Giro and the Tour counts here too, people who bought a rider or riders specifically to be there for the Vuelta will have riders that are 2 years older. So that is problematic. If now many people are for an October November Vuelta, ok, then we can do the big change (while not knowing for sure that the Vuelta will be ridden either actually)

And if we keep the Vuelta from 08-14 (as I for the moment assume) then Lombardia on the 15th to me seems out. As is Emilia. So those would stay on the old dates too... as I said, then becomes messy.

Some of those above seem sensible to change to the new day, those that change one day etc, Brussels for example.
Others possible.
Pologne: Move to 08-05? With the 5 day version then obviously? From what I see nothing important there originally, would work.

But from what I see that would make it an unique rule for Poland almost, I don't mind, but generally we have tried to make it as consistent as possible.
Ok, a rule "move to the new date if it doesn't clash with the old calendar"

[Gipfelstuermer]

Majority agrees with you, but can I still post my minority opinion?

Oh, good table overview! That helps.

Would indeed be messy to keep Vuelta on old date and let it clash with the new Lombardia & Emilia. So my argument would have been, that Vuelta is less important than Giro and Tour, plus people get to choose from all the most important races in a short period of time. So even if anybody bought a specific rider for the main purpose to ride Vuelta (possible but doubt it), Vuelta is "only" delayed two months (yes can make a difference in downtraining) and players have instead the possibility to ride many other highlights. So that super climber may downtrain for Vuelta, but could win Lombardia, Tour und Giro kind of....


.... but OK, I stop! Majority wins!

[Robyklebt]

If you're somehow confident to sway enough people so that your minority opinion becomes the majority feel free to keep going.

I'm actually not completely sure what your opinion is anyway....
If it's ride all the races again, I really doubt you will be successful, that would kind of fuck up all the statistics, most eternal points, or even "only" team-intern point statistics. Ok, you could say ride it all as cat 1....

If it's the mix you would be for, races that haven't been ridden yet on their new date, all of them... probably your chances are better to convince enough people I think.

That would be something like: The races in my post above on their new dates (although it's possible that I deleted too much, had to recopy Lombardia too since I deleted that somehow, but noticed it later, others if I deleted probably unnoticed)
plus
cancelled races.

Not going to do the whole thing, since while I think a majority for that plan is kind of possible, still think it's doubtful it will happen, so your argument, you can do it for the whole autumn. I do August only.

224 2020-08-01 MJ Johan Museeuw Classic - G.P. Stad Gistel 1.1 cancelled
225 2020-08-02 ME Antwerpse Havenpijl 1.2 cancelled
226 2020-08-03 ME The Larry H.Miller Tour of Utah 2.Pro cancelled
227 2020-08-06 ME Arctic Race of Norway 2.Pro cancelled
238 2020-08-16 ME Prudential RideLondon-Surrey Classic 1.UWT cancelled
239 2020-08-16 ME VOO-Tour de Wallonie 2.Pro cancelled
241 2020-08-16 ME La Poly Normande 1.1 cancelled
242 2020-08-18 ME GP Stad Zottegem 1.1 cancelled
244 2020-08-20 ME Deutschland Tour 2.Pro cancelled
249 2020-08-22 ME Omloop Mandel-Leie-Schelde Meulebeke 1.1 cancelled
252 2020-08-23 ME Schaal Sels Merksem/ Johan Museeuw Classic 1.1 cancelled
257 2020-08-29 ME Tour of Almaty 2.1 cancelled
259 2020-08-30 ME Grote Prijs Jef Scherens - Rondom Leuven 1.1 cancelled

So that's the cancelled races of a certain importance that would be possibly in(Utah and Arctic most likely not, since parallel to Poland then). Everybody can add the "new races" himself.

The sticking point though clearly would be the Vuelta, if you can convince enough people that the Vuelta 2 months later is no big deal, I think there's really no other objection there. Yes, Lombardia 2 months less training etc, but pff, little concern.

Keep the Vuelta in August, but the rest the new calendar? To that I would be opposed again, Lombardia parallel to the Vuelta? After we stupidly made it possible to ride the Dauphiné after the Giro? Pff. And that would definitely hurt the Vuelta, because quite a few sensible people would then prefer to ride Lombardia and Emilia. Already the Vuelta is at a disadvantage because it has a bunch of semi-classics parallel (Hamburg-Plouay are not classics!!!!), add some real ones? Brrr.

For me personally the Vuelta 2 months late wouldn't be such a problem (even if 2020 is my Vuelta-comeback year and Larios is spanish because he wants to ride it, but he can ride it at a more advanced age too...)

[Bear]

I did not read every post here but I think the 2021 season was not a topic yet.

So... what do we do for 2021. Tour Down Under already canceled. So most likely not in our calender as well because there will be no profiles. For short termed cancelation we handle it like this year?

[Gipfelstuermer]

I did not read every post here but I think the 2021 season was not a topic yet.

So... what do we do for 2021. Tour Down Under already canceled. So most likely not in our calender as well because there will be no profiles. For short termed cancelation we handle it like this year?

Good question.

We have to prepare for 2021 as another corona season with lots of cancellations and delay.

One thing is clear: We should ride 2021 UCI WorldTour Calendar, even for long-term cancellations such as TDU now.

How can we ride it without profile? Easiest would be profile from last year. More fun would be to appoint somebody to design the C4F TDU 2021. Perhaps a selection of best former TDU stages? Or just a pure fantasy TDU? But if pure fantasy, should definitely be in line wirh the style of real TDU. So a real life flat/hilly tour should not suddenly become an extreme mountain tour. Would be interesting to hear Big Donkey or luques opinion for 2021.

For the record and in case a worse corona outbreak comes, I save the 2021 UCI WorldTour Calendar here^^

19 - 24 January: Santos Tour Down Under (Australia)
31 January: Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race (Australia)
21 – 27 February: UAE Tour (United Arab Emirates)
27 February: Omloop Het Nieuwsblad Elite (Belgium)
6 March: Strade Bianche (Italy)
7 - 14 March: Paris-Nice (France)
10 - 16 March: Tirreno-Adriatico (Italy)
20 March: Milano-Sanremo (Italy)
22 - 28 March: Volta Ciclista a Catalunya (Spain)
24 March: AG Driedaagse Brugge-De Panne (Belgium)
26 March: E3 BinckBank Classic (Belgium)
28 March: Gent-Wevelgem in Flanders Fields (Belgium)
31 March: Dwars door Vlaanderen - A travers la Flandre (Belgium)
4 April: Ronde van Vlaanderen - Tour des Flandres (Belgium)
5 - 10 April: Itzulia Basque Country (Spain)
11 April: Paris-Roubaix (France)
18 April: Amstel Gold Race (the Netherlands)
21 April: La Flèche Wallonne (Belgium)
25 April: Liège-Bastogne-Liège (Belgium)
27 April -2 May: Tour de Romandie (Switzerland)
1st May: Eschborn-Frankfurt (Germany)
8 - 30 May: Giro d'Italia (Italy)
30 May-6 June: Critérium du Dauphiné (France)
6 - 13 June: Tour de Suisse (Switzerland)
26 June-18 July: Tour de France (France)
31 July: Donostia San Sebastian Klasikoa (Spain)
9 - 15 August: Tour de Pologne (Poland)
14 August - 5 September: La Vuelta Ciclista a España (Spain)
15 August: EuroEyes Cyclassics Hamburg (Germany)
22 August: Bretagne Classic - Ouest-France (France)
30 August - 5 September: BinckBank Tour
10 September: Grand Prix Cycliste de Québec (Canada)
12 September: Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal (Canada)
9 October: Il Lombardia (Italy)
14 - 19 October: Gree - Tour of Guangxi (China)

[Robyklebt]

On Down Under:

For me designing fantasy is the worst idea. Better

a) Use 2020. The parcours is so similar each year that designing fantasy would really be worse than taking 2020
b) Not ride it at all. IMO the cancellation has been announced so early, before the season starts, that it doesn't really count as "short term cancellation" anymore.

No preference between the 2, or actually a small one for kicking it. Not ridden, decided long ago, so cancel it here too. But don't care that much either way. Of course I'm aware that according to some people (Idefix, OL, RfM) I'm not allowed to have an opinion, and as soon as I have one it's imposing it, dictating it... but that says all you need to know about them, nothing about me. Go snipe in your race chats boys... I do it here!

In general:

Easiest to continue with what we did in 2020:

- Follow the originally planned calendar.

1 day races: Use the last available profile. Ignore cancellations completely, except maybe if there was a clash with another one day race, then only offer the other one.

Tours: As this year, use the last available profile.
If one tour cancelled but parallel there's another one that isn't cancelled (yet) ride the the one that isn't cancelled yet.

Fantasy designing... was refused last year when brought up, so doubt it will find a majority this year...
But if the TdS is cancelled again... I'd be for another extra rule, which would be either use 2018 or have Rasmussen design a fantasy edition, 3 years the same for the TdS would be even worse than twice.

But most likely we'll use the 2020 rules, mostly because only Donkey and Gipfel will say something in time, some others will start screaming, ranting and raging sometime between late February and early September...

[Gipfelstuermer]

Largely agree with you. But I think your option B....

b) Not ride it at all. IMO the cancellation has been announced so early, before the season starts, that it doesn't really count as "short term cancellation" anymore.

... is not possible with your general rule....

In general:

Easiest to continue with what we did in 2020:

- Follow the originally planned calendar.

...So we should stick to option A. For TDU, but also for other races.

I don't think we really cancelled anything important from the original 2020 calender, so wouldn't cancel anything important from 2021 calendar.

[Rasmussen]

b) Not ride it at all. IMO the cancellation has been announced so early, before the season starts, that it doesn't really count as "short term cancellation" anymore.

For me that's the best option. We always tried to use the original calendar and the original dates so why riding a race that's not in the calendar from the beginning of the season? And for most of the canceled races we have parallel options, maybe we have to ride a less popular tour but at least we dont have to ride fantasy or profiles from 2020. And honestly I dont think there will be too many races cancelled expect Down Under.

And if somebody thinks we have to ride 2020 profiles or fantasy profiles please use category 1 and not the normal category.

[Robyklebt]

1/ mimimimimi poor little Donkey that has not the right to have an opinion. Reverse manipulative tactics you have... stop that immediately.

Living out your authoritarian dreams by trying to order people around again, are you?

But well, since you have nothing else to say...

[Robyklebt]

- "I dont think there will be too many races cancelled expect Down Under" : this argument was said last year when Romandie was cancelled. Result: many cancellations afterwards, and only Romandie was cancelled on RSF, and never balanced (far too late now). For me it's a reason more to keep TDU!

Another lie. How can you expect to be taken seriously when all you do is lie, distort, lie, try to order people around, lie, insult, lie and misrepresent.
Have you ever considered that you and your ilk would be more successful with more honesty?

And of course your opinion will be ignored. Self fulfilling prophecy, calling me a dictator gives you exactly what you demand. You are ignored. Now off you go my good friend.

[Bear]

I agree with Rasmussen. I think we don’t need TDU as it is canceled very early. And to take the updated calendar of 2021 for rsf is more real than riding a fantasy TDU or other fantasy tour.

Furthermore I doubt anybody prepares his team just for January because of TDU.

[Gipfelstuermer]

I think some mistaken the value of TDU in today's cycling. It is now a very established World Tour race.

Did we cancel Catalonia in 2020?
Did we cancel Pais Vasco in 2020?
Did we cancel Tour de Suisse in 2020?

No, no and no! For good reason we rode it on the originally planned date!

Same for one day races like E3, DDV, Eschborn-Frankfurt, San Sebastian, etc.... We did not cancel!

So we will also ride TDU 2021.

[Hansa]

I think some mistaken the value of TDU in today's cycling. It is now a very established World Tour race.

Did we cancel Catalonia in 2020?
Did we cancel Pais Vasco in 2020?
Did we cancel Tour de Suisse in 2020?

No, no and no! For good reason we rode it on the originally planned date!

Same for one day races like E3, DDV, Eschborn-Frankfurt, San Sebastian, etc.... We did not cancel!

So we will also ride TDU 2021.

+1