Suggestion for the offseason calendar

[cataracs]

Rcaes I liked form last year :

Asmara Road 13/10
Kobarid GP 24/10
Lake Malawi Cycling Race 01/11
Coimbra GP 10/11
Coupe de Guadeloupe 13/11
Chiang Rai-Chiang Dao 22/11
Real de Catorce-Matahuela 27/11
Circuito do Madeira 03/12
Al Jarrasi-Ibb 13/12
Huelva-Sevilla 22/12
Cancoon - Valladolid 28/12
Ocozocuautla-San Cristobal De Las Casas 03/01
Tuvirett- Tablabalt 16/01
Marmara Race 20/01
Novo Hamburgo-Caxias do Sul 26/01

[team fl]

discussion and draft calender for 2014/15 will be discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4231

[team fl]

Finally, in the spirit of NoPikouze, I'd like to reopen this thread and present my suggestion for the offseason calender 2017/18. Feel free to comment it, share your thoughts about it and help to get a decent result with the most (reasonable) fun for everybody. Two things about it:

1.) Yes, I like that there is no stage race from 2 to 9 October (Volta Brasil ends on 1, Turkey starts on 10). There are so many interesting one day races that it should be okay for everybody.

2.) I am not happy with the January calender yet, but I am too lazy to think about a decent solution. So move your ass and help with that.

3) Oh, I only wrote that there will be two things? Well, it's my post, so shut up. Anyway, also discuss about the RSF offseason classics, their categories, races to add, races to delete, etc.

Colours: Orange = real calender stuff, green = RSF offseason classics, blue = Fantasy tours and RSF offseason tours, like Andes and December Tour.

Finally, here is my suggestion:

[Robyklebt]

Good man this FL, nice proposal!

I join I join

My counter proposals:

December tour is 2 days to long it seems? 14 days. Actually that's not a proposal, after last years "games of illogical weirdness, brought to you by a certain megalomaniac" I decided to save the dec tour from the megalomaniac and declared myself ultimate dictator of the Dectour organization (was my idea after all). So the Dec tour will be 14 days, that's a Donkey decree. Details to be posted later.

Just proposals from now on:

With Lombardia, Paris Tours, but also Milano Torino, 3 Valli etc (no Piemonte, that's cancelled this year, resp. was the italian national championship) in October I don't think we need any fantasy classics in October. Cut or move the 3 fantasy classics you have at the end of the month, move Sachsen Pavé there. So it doesn't overlap with Guangxi (shit race, but WT (if it's ridden, you never know with the UCI..)

Stage races:
a) Andes, Andes, we're in desperate need of an Andes designer for 2017 I think. If we don't want it to die out.
b) Let's stop the "vote for every winter stage race" thing. With that and the Dec tour it's just an endless voting circus. Plus it gives more flexibility to the calendar boss (Luques). Let's say the Dec tour is very very mountainous, with the voting frenzy of the last years we could end up having another climbers tour in parallel. Stupid, just let the calendar boss decide, he can put in something flat in this scenario. Something that fits well to the main program anyway.
c) Categories: Andes and Dec tour cat 3. January and Sachsen Cat 2. Pavé 2 or 3, but I tend for 2, since it's in January when the real season restarts. All other tours cat 1.

Fantasy classics:
My revolutionary proposal:
0) No fantasy classics in October! See above.
1)After last years genocide of fantasy classics by Pokemon (can I get money back for NOT insulting him, despite him still deserving insults?), that he never managed to explain (the closest to an explanation he came was "it's not written they stay forever!!!") I propose that NONE of the fake classics he put in the calendar, it was just 1 day races with higher category, not classics, be put in the calendar at more than cat 1 this year. Somebody liked any of those high cat. races he put in last year? They can come in as cat 1 this year and go to cat 2 in the future. But not this winter.
2) Decrease the number of cat 2+3 one day races again a bit. Which is done in the FL proposal I see 22 from October to January, sounds about right, was over 30 last year.
3) The October classics: I'd be for cutting them for at least this year. Not move them, cut them. Since all other classics were cut last year. (Of course as Mosell hater I'm for cutting that one for good, haven't seen the point of Bielsko for a long time (I originally proposed it as classic btw..) and despite being an original Bolkow lover... the parcours is not the original LCB one anymore, the weather end of October or early November in POland is not likely to be all that good for cycling, cut it too)
4) The killed classics... get them back? Get new ones? Don't really know. A certain continuity IMO is needed if we want CLASSICS. And not just races with higher categories. So that would be for getting them back. Doesn't have to be all of them... (but I miss Canyon de Chelly in FLs thing, grrrr, want that!!)
5) Only races that have been raced before can get cat 2 or higher. But that needs people proposing such races here... start your memory chips (2 punches in the nose does the trick for me) and look at what cat 1 races in the last years you liked, post them here.
6) Decision not by a single person (includes Donkeys who have personhood) who ignores every other comment. Final decision by someone alone if necessary, yes, of course, we can't keep discussing forever, that person then IMO shoudl be Luques, but otherwise consensus, majority, even if it's only 3 guys posting their opinion.

[Gipfelstuermer]

a) Andes, Andes, we're in desperate need of an Andes designer for 2017 I think. If we don't want it to die out.

I am quite motivated to design some fantasy tours for this Winter. In fact, I already collected some ideas because I expected votings for 4-,5-,6-day tours and December Tour.

So if you are in "desperate need", I can offer to design Andes 2017. Just give me some framework like the number of stages, number of ITT/TTT, maximum number of HC/Mountain stages or any other rules from previous tours.

[Coroncina2]

A real revolution would be play real race that we didn't during the season.
But let's start meaningless debate about category of fantasy races.

[Pokemon Club]

- Not enough tours. 2 tours at the same time each time. 2 tours = more teams in total = less team per field = more money at the end.
- No need to have a tour finishing the day Andes start. Some people don't know even the day before if they start a tour, no reason to do that. And not the best thing for participation.

[Gipfelstuermer]

- Not enough tours. 2 tours at the same time each time. 2 tours = more teams in total = less team per field = more money at the end.
- No need to have a tour finishing the day Andes start. Some people don't know even the day before if they start a tour, no reason to do that. And not the best thing for participation.

Agree with the second note.

Disagree with the first note. More money is not positive per se because less team per field is not positive per se. Especially when I think about tours like Vuelta 14h with only 4 teams... I'd say you need at least 8-10 teams per tour to enjoy the game, so not sure if we really need 2 tours at the same time each time.

[luques]

Some observations on the October Calendar:

1) Japan Cup is 22 October, at least for UCI Calendar.

2) At the end of the month, more or less when there is Bolkow I would say, there are NC.

3) Sachsen can go even at the end of October, Monday to Friday and then Campeonato can be an idea. Weather shouldn't be a problem at the moment (cause everything is fixed to 20).

4) I don't mind about single fantasy monuments actually. I can live without them, but if people likes well...

5) Tour of Hainan may be a good addition for those "I want real tour guys", a 2.HC is still something worthy even if in China.

That's at the moment for October. I wait to see how it develops, NC btw are fixed as Japan Cup.

[team fl]

I collected some statements that I will comment:

With Lombardia, Paris Tours, but also Milano Torino, 3 Valli etc (no Piemonte, that's cancelled this year, resp. was the italian national championship) in October I don't think we need any fantasy classics in October. Cut or move the 3 fantasy classics you have at the end of the month, move Sachsen Pavé there. So it doesn't overlap with Guangxi (shit race, but WT (if it's ridden, you never know with the UCI..)

in combination with

0) No fantasy classics in October! See above.

Cut out all but Mosell Cup. Just to have the mandatory pavé race next to Sachsen. The Problem with Sachsen and Guangxi is still there though and not easily fixable if the NCs should be at 29.

a) Andes, Andes, we're in desperate need of an Andes designer for 2017 I think. If we don't want it to die out.

Gipfelstürmer sounds eager to do it. So go for it then! Just write with Alkworld before doing so to get the spirit and maybe some advice from an experienced Andes designer.

b) Let's stop the "vote for every winter stage race" thing. With that and the Dec tour it's just an endless voting circus. Plus it gives more flexibility to the calendar boss (Luques). Let's say the Dec tour is very very mountainous, with the voting frenzy of the last years we could end up having another climbers tour in parallel. Stupid, just let the calendar boss decide, he can put in something flat in this scenario. Something that fits well to the main program anyway.

I support this one.

c) Categories: Andes and Dec tour cat 3. January and Sachsen Cat 2. Pavé 2 or 3, but I tend for 2, since it's in January when the real season restarts. All other tours cat 1.

Also fine with that.

2) Decrease the number of cat 2+3 one day races again a bit. Which is done in the FL proposal I see 22 from October to January, sounds about right, was over 30 last year.

I see you see what I did there...

5) Only races that have been raced before can get cat 2 or higher. But that needs people proposing such races here... start your memory chips (2 punches in the nose does the trick for me) and look at what cat 1 races in the last years you liked, post them here.

Jap, we need the People!

6) Decision not by a single person (includes Donkeys who have personhood) who ignores every other comment. Final decision by someone alone if necessary, yes, of course, we can't keep discussing forever, that person then IMO shoudl be Luques, but otherwise consensus, majority, even if it's only 3 guys posting their opinion.

See above.

1) Japan Cup is 22 October, at least for UCI Calendar.

Will fix that.

2) At the end of the month, more or less when there is Bolkow I would say, there are NC.

Bielsko and Bolkow out, see RKL suggestions. NC mentioned at 29.

3) Sachsen can go even at the end of October, Monday to Friday and then Campeonato can be an idea. Weather shouldn't be a problem at the moment (cause everything is fixed to 20).

5) Tour of Hainan may be a good addition for those "I want real tour guys", a 2.HC is still something worthy even if in China.

I don't see Hainan in the UCI calender... But I've just realised that I got some race dates wrong.

Edith means I found it, at the real date, and it's fitted in the calender, well, you'll see

- Not enough tours. 2 tours at the same time each time. 2 tours = more teams in total = less team per field = more money at the end.

I also disagree with that. 4-5 stage races per month should be easily enough. And less teams to have more Money? come on...

- No need to have a tour finishing the day Andes start. Some people don't know even the day before if they start a tour, no reason to do that. And not the best thing for participation.

That easily fixable, Small tour will start at 31st October and end at 3rd November then.



Updated 2nd draft will follow during the day.

[team fl]

And here it is draft no. 2, up for discussion.

[Alkworld]

a) Andes, Andes, we're in desperate need of an Andes designer for 2017 I think. If we don't want it to die out.

Gipfelstürmer sounds eager to do it. So go for it then! Just write with Alkworld before doing so to get the spirit and maybe some advice from an experienced Andes designer.

Cerro is more experienced than myself and has again been active recently. If he's unavailable, I can help out with info as well. I just won't have the time to design properly. I had some plans, but was neither happy with them nor were they very far designed yet.

[Robyklebt]

Andes discussion opened by CC here

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5317

[luques]

Sorry FL, for not mentioning it, but nothing can go in // with NC (even if it is something I would like to change), so Hainan can't be there (and don't know actually where to put it). Until 25th October anyway everything fine for me.

An option could be making Hainan // with Sachsen and Andes. And one can choose if he wants to play Sachsen + Andes, or Hainan + Rwanda. So giving two path the classical RSF fantasy program, or the real races. Honestly I don't dislike the idea of giving two paths.

Actually with the little modifications of Hainan/NC, if everyone agrees I would already start with the October work.

[CircleCycle]

An option could be making Hainan // with Sachsen and Andes. And one can choose if he wants to play Sachsen + Andes, or Hainan + Rwanda. So giving two path the classical RSF fantasy program, or the real races. Honestly I don't dislike the idea of giving two paths.

+1 this looks like a good option.

Agree with most of the things in the FL-calendar, but nothing worth complaining, very good work.

5) Only races that have been raced before can get cat 2 or higher. But that needs people proposing such races here... start your memory chips (2 punches in the nose does the trick for me) and look at what cat 1 races in the last years you liked, post them here.


Jap, we need the People!

Good idea! Where to mention them?

[Robyklebt]

First a thing about the October calendar, which is not really offseason yet. This Malaysia thing is 3-7 in reality. If we really need to have it (which I doubt, but ok,,) then at least let's have it on the real date. 3-7. Overlaps with Lombardia? So be it. If anything put a restriction on it, only for D4-7 or so.

Horribell Mosell: I'd prefer to have it after Guangxi.

The NC problem: One solution might be not to have it on a Sunday. Participation is pretty horrible anyway, not necessarily worse during the week. But it would need to be a day on which Luques is sure to be able to be online early in the morning before it starts. And have time to correct all the bugs:)

[team fl]

First a thing about the October calendar, which is not really offseason yet. This Malaysia thing is 3-7 in reality. If we really need to have it (which I doubt, but ok,,) then at least let's have it on the real date. 3-7. Overlaps with Lombardia? So be it. If anything put a restriction on it, only for D4-7 or so.

Okay for me. I just put it one day earlier because of Lombardia. But if I am the only one to decide, I would not put in a stage race anyway during these days.

Horribell Mosell: I'd prefer to have it after Guangxi.

Okay for me too, but then the question is, if we need a seconed one day pavé race at the beginning of October... I would say no. Sachsen Pavés should make up for it easily.

The NC problem: One solution might be not to have it on a Sunday. Participation is pretty horrible anyway, not necessarily worse during the week. But it would need to be a day on which Luques is sure to be able to be online early in the morning before it starts. And have time to correct all the bugs:)

25 or 26 Looks good. Nothing // there and there would be no Problem with Hainan. If it has to be the 29, I would go with luques suggestion:

An option could be making Hainan // with Sachsen and Andes. And one can choose if he wants to play Sachsen + Andes, or Hainan + Rwanda. So giving two path the classical RSF fantasy program, or the real races. Honestly I don't dislike the idea of giving two paths.

[luques]

The NC problem: One solution might be not to have it on a Sunday. Participation is pretty horrible anyway, not necessarily worse during the week. But it would need to be a day on which Luques is sure to be able to be online early in the morning before it starts. And have time to correct all the bugs:)

To be online it's ok everyday except 19-20-21 October that I am on trip. That doesn't imply I will be able to solve bugs

[team fl]

To fix a possible misunderstanding: The "small tour" lengths are only place holders. 3-5 days, who cares. No particular Intention to only have 4 days long small tours.

[Pokemon Club]

People want money race in winter just give them that.
And do we really need CNs for the moment ? People will complain they won't be able to ride short race, low participation, we waste one day with that.
And it is winter, give it free for all

[Gipfelstuermer]

Two questions about the draft for November:

Is Campeonato intended to be from Monday, 6-Nov to Sunday 19-Nov meaning only 14 days, i.e. 13 stages plus 1 rest day? I started studying old designs in order to create a worthy Campeonato 2017 and it used to be 16 days, i.e. 15 stages plus 1 rest day. Also, it mostly started Saturday and finished Sunday like a real world 2-week-tour would do.

So:
1.) Do you really want it to be only 14 days? It seems tradition requires 16 days as a full 2-week-tour.
2.) If you agree, do you want to start it on Saturday, 4-Nov and finish Sunday, 19-Nov or start Monday, 6-Nov and finish Tuesday, 21-Nov? I'm more open on this point because I feel like many people can plan weekdays better than weekends in C4F. So that's up to you.

[Coroncina2]

WOW are you really planning the calendar for the next 3 months?
why?

I think could be better fix all RSF calendar on winter. Like that all teams could plan better his season, and designer could better organize calendar in time.

Ok, I'm officially impressed. So you want to have the whole calendar, from January to October (or December?) decided at once? And then you could better plan the season? You really plan that detailed, that it would help you to know that today we ride a race in or around Toulouse? Ok, it might help you, but I don't think the majority of managers make plans as detailed as that.

[Robyklebt]

You should be happy about it though, no?

But actually it's not deciding the whole calendar at once. Not every day, every single race. It's more deciding a frame work. Any objections to this approach?

[Coroncina2]

A table like this, it's just what I talk in my post (maybe badly explained), would also be useful for the real season, for the same reason that you done it for offseason.

[team fl]

A table like this, it's just what I talk in my post (maybe badly explained), would also be useful for the real season, for the same reason that you done it for offseason.

Where have you been during the last years? This has been common procedure since 2012. And of course it is different, because the offseason has to be managed by the users themselves, as it is OFFSEASON and hence a lot fantasy stuff. The main season calender is set anyway. If you follow cycling a bit and can handle some Internet skill, you may find out about it yourself. F.e. you can find the UCI Road Calender here: http://www.uci.ch/road/calendar/ . Chose 2018 for the Season and you have it.