RSF Classics for the offseason calender

[team fl]

As every year, we need C4F classics for the offseason calendar.

Main rules:

- Races ridden as cat 1 can be proposed as cat 2
- Cat 2 can be proposed as cat 3 or to be cut
- Cat 3 can be proposed to be cut down to cat 2
- Races that haven't been ridden yet, can't be nominated

A minimum of 2 nominations are necessary to get the change of category. Same counts for downgrading from Cat. 3 to Cat. 2 or cutting a race completely.

Races should be ridable regarding temperatures. Hence, races from places where it is decently warm during this time of the year are preferred.

Here are the C4F classics from last offseason:

October 2023:

Cat. 3
- GP Brescia
Cat. 2
- x

November 2023:

Cat. 3
- San Francisco classic
Cat. 2
- Gran Prix de Agadir
- GP Coimbra
- Jable - Al Farandis
- Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup
- El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali
- GP Canyon de Chelly
- Villalba GP
- El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Medlin
- Itabirito - Ouro Preto

December 2023:

I don't mention the special and fixed Christmas and Sylvester races other than the Pavé de Nöel.

Cat. 3
- Aizawl Cup
- Kisoro-Kabale
- Gran Premio de Laguna de Sayula (Pavés de Nöel)

Cat. 2
- Yap Island Cup
- Colombo - Agampodigama
- Dolisie - Point Noire

January 2024:

Cat. 3
- GP Letzebuerg
- Napier bluff Hill Circuit
- Boucles de Wallis et Futuna

Cat. 2
- GP de Papeete (TTT)

[team fl]

Cut Yap Island Cup. 11.12.23 Only positive is the name, Yap and Cup, how poetic. But there's a problem with that too, it was called Yap Islands: Colonia Loop originally!!!! So the result in the history are missing too... 05.01.22 the first edition.

For the rest it's just a gravel race disguised as pavé, with all the Waffles and Eroicas we really have enough gravel races, they are more interesting than this too (assume at least in the case of Eroicas that haven't been ridden yet) Anyway, Yap is just nothing special at all, positive only the name and I realized now the mintact. Was most likely designed only because the vault was completely empty regarding pavé races, so have a gravel (pseudo pavé) one, that doesn't even follow the now standard gravel consensus, make it * or **. Can't find it under Robyfiles even, so clearly was a fast design just to have a race because there were no unridden races available.

Cut!!!!

Nothing new to propose, rode almost no 1 day races in December, so I'm just negative for the moment.

[team fl]

Found something new to propose:

Padre Hurtado - Pudahuel 19.02.24

There's a big danger of an uncontested km 1 group coming through I think, but wasn't in my group, and then it can be a very interesting stage as well.

[Tukhtahuaev]

Proposing to move GP Canyon de Chelly up to cat 3 and to cut Itabirito - Ouro Preto

[cataracs]

What if two people vote for upgrade to cat3 and two vote for a cut?

[flockmastoR]

What if two people vote for upgrade to cat3 and two vote for a cut?

+2 -2 = 0

[cataracs]

Out:
GP Canyon de Chelly. The most boring race ever.
El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Medlin . It's very similar to the other Trofeo, but more interesting with the flat in the end.

Down to 2:
Kisoro-Kabale Downvote same as last year, just don't like it. cat 3 too much...

up to 3 :
Villalba GP
Itabirito - Ouro Preto. The best race in the offseason by far. You can attack 70km from the finish, 40km from the finish or defend if you have a monster rider(which is less likely). Not sure what the heck Donkey is talking about mpr.

New proposals:
Tarse - Tepekoy - Tarse 19/03/2024 Good race for sprinters with some mountain, maybe even normal sprinters and possible late attacks for strong flat riders, so perfect exciting profile.
Tsushima Island Cup 27/09/2021 Just the perfect classics race, with hills that aren't long but steep enough for attacks and siebs.
Serince - Kirikhan 27/08/2021 A good fight for the sprinters, something we don't have as classic I think.

[lennylenny]

probably too early for this winter, but Ehime Cycling Cup ridden today gets a nomination from me, interesting profile with multiple types of winning riders possible depending on the lineups of the participating teams

[flockmastoR]

Summary of offseason classics proposals for 2024/2025

New proposals
Ehime Cycling Cup, 03.09.2024 (lennylenny)
Tarse - Tepekoy - Tarse, 19.03.2024 (cataracs)
Tsushima Island Cup, 27.09.2021 (cataracs)
Serince - Kirikhan, 27.08.2021 (cataracs)
Padre Hurtado - Pudahuel, 19.02.24 (Robyklebt)
Trofeo de Presa Allende, 26.11.2023 (flockmastor, wrong race in the first version)
Seychelles Vacation Race, 30.12.2023 (flockmastor)
Fuerteventura Holiday, GP, 20.10.2023 (flockmastor)

Upvotings
Villalbla GP, cat 2 -> cat 3 (cataracs)
Itabirito - Ouro Preto, cat 2 -> cat 3 (cataracs)
GP Canyon de Chelly, cat2 -> cat 3 (Tukhtahuaev, Robyklebt, flockmastoR)
Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup, cat 2 -> cat 3 (Robyklebt)

Downvotings
Kisoro-Kabale, cat 3 -> cat 2(cataracs)

Cuts
GP Canyon de Chelly. cat 2 -> out (cataracs)
El Tripico dC: Trofeo Medelin, cat 2 -> out (cataracs, Robyklebt)
Itabirito - Ouro Preto, cat 2 -> out (Tukhtahuaev, Robyklebt, Bear, lennylenny)
Cut Yap Island Cup, cat 2 -> out (Robyklebt, flockmastoR)
Grand Prix de Agadir, cat 2 -> out (Robyklebt)

Hope I didn't forget anything mentioned in the forum, if yes, please point it out. I want to make a proposal for the offseason classics tomorrow afternoon, so if someone wants to add something, hurry up. At the moment we have two cat 2 offseason classics with divergint proposals. If there are not more opinions on that, I would cut Itabirito - Ouro Preto (1vs3) and I would [keep GP Canyon de Chelly on cat 2 (2 for up, 1 for cut)] upgrade GP Canyon de Chelly to cat 3 (3 for up, 1 for down). I also would cut El Tripico dC: Trofeo Medelin (2 votes). As for the other mentions, I would probably add two of the new proposals to replace the cutted ones (If no opinions on what to add, I would do it based on profil characteristics/regional distribution on my own). For the rest I would keep as it is.

[flockmastoR]

New Proposals A&D

Trofeo de Presa Allende, 26.11.2023, nice pave race, not the hardes one but that allows for some different rider types to win it. Clearly I want to add it because it is the only pave race where I was able to beat Tukh (and a pave offseason classic would be really nice)
Seychelles Vacation Race, 30.12.2023, hard hilly race, offered different outcomes last year!
Fuerteventura Holiday GP, 20.10.2023, nice HS race

Cuts A&D

Cut Yap Island Cup, I proposed it last year, but was wrong, it really is a boring race, RKL was right

Upgrades A&D
GP Canyon de Chelly up to cat 3, was on my list that I didn't check before I did the earlier posting about keeping it at cat 2

Edit says I put in the wrong Mexican race, now it is the right pave race

[Robyklebt]

I also would cut El Triptico de Comombia

You really hate the Triptico de Colombia, eh? I think you misswrote it last year too?

But there's 2! The one that has the votes seems to be Medellin.

But why in such a hurry, each September. Get the ones for October decided, for the rest I would have thought there's still some time? Because, I was planning to argue some points about some races later on, (something that probably nobody suspected about me, I like arguing stuff ). But ok, my arguing debut might have to wait a bit then, because can't do that until tomorrow or under pressure!

Just one thing, Itabirito-Ouro Preto. If the designer, would just decide to prolong the race a few km, put the finish line somewhere else in the finishing circuit, big chances it's cat 3 next year and loses a lot of its minus votes this year! Do it! Do it! Make it more open, make the MPR open!

[Robyklebt]

OH, one more, quotes from different threads

Add San Francisco classic (3) at the 31.10.

RSF Offseason Tour
16.10.2024 - 05.11.2024: MED - Mediterranean (South Europe, North Afrika, Arabic Region, prefer non European races)
06.11.2024 - 26.11.2024: AFR - Africa (Sub-Saharan Africa)
27.11.2024 - 17.12.2024: OCE - Oceania (Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, ...)
18.12.2024 - 07.01.2025: ASIA (India, South-East Asia, Indonasia)
08.01.2025 - 28.01.2025: SAM - South America
29.01.2025 - 18.02.2025: CAM - Central America, Mexico & Caribbean

Wouldn't it sort of make sense to have the classics in their regional time slot? Whenever possible.
Last year these 2 racs from the MED region were classics too it seems, wouldn't one of them make more sense (unless they all have been kicked)

- Gran Prix de Agadir
- GP Coimbra
- Jable - Al Farandis

[flockmastoR]

I also would cut El Triptico de Comombia

You really hate the Triptico de Colombia, eh? I think you misswrote it last year too?

But there's 2! The one that has the votes seems to be Medellin.

But why in such a hurry, each September. Get the ones for October decided, for the rest I would have thought there's still some time? Because, I was planning to argue some points about some races later on, (something that probably nobody suspected about me, I like arguing stuff ). But ok, my arguing debut might have to wait a bit then, because can't do that until tomorrow or under pressure!

Just one thing, Itabirito-Ouro Preto. If the designer, would just decide to prolong the race a few km, put the finish line somewhere else in the finishing circuit, big chances it's cat 3 next year and loses a lot of its minus votes this year! Do it! Do it! Make it more open, make the MPR open!

Oh boy, I am just not in a good mood currently. Sry to the Dreifaltigkeit which will become a Einfaltigkeit

El Tripico dC: Trofeo Medelin it is, you right, both of you mentioned the Medelin, will correct it!

I will post a draft tomorrow, then I am on vacation for at least a week not active at all (Starting from Saturday).

So feel free to discuss the October part of the draft fast and the other parts can be discussed longer. I am in a hurry because I forgot to bring up the topic earlier. Thanks to FL and Gip, the whole offseason calendar and offseason classic discussion already was prepared quite well.

[flockmastoR]

OH, one more, quotes from different threads

Add San Francisco classic (3) at the 31.10.

RSF Offseason Tour
16.10.2024 - 05.11.2024: MED - Mediterranean (South Europe, North Afrika, Arabic Region, prefer non European races)
06.11.2024 - 26.11.2024: AFR - Africa (Sub-Saharan Africa)
27.11.2024 - 17.12.2024: OCE - Oceania (Australia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, ...)
18.12.2024 - 07.01.2025: ASIA (India, South-East Asia, Indonasia)
08.01.2025 - 28.01.2025: SAM - South America
29.01.2025 - 18.02.2025: CAM - Central America, Mexico & Caribbean

Wouldn't it sort of make sense to have the classics in their regional time slot? Whenever possible.
Last year these 2 racs from the MED region were classics too it seems, wouldn't one of them make more sense (unless they all have been kicked)

- Gran Prix de Agadir
- GP Coimbra
- Jable - Al Farandis

Yeah you are right. Wanted to do it like that last year (was very far off being successfull), but should probably at least try to do it.

GP Coimbra it is

[Robyklebt]

Oh boy, I am just not in a good mood currently. Sry to the Dreifaltigkeit which will become a Einfaltigkeit

El Tripico dC: Trofeo Medelin it is, you right, both of you mentioned the Medelin, will correct it!

At the risk of making your mood worse:

El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Medellin

As for the mood, well, don't worry, holidays which seem to make you unhappy will be over soon and you can get to work again after just one week! Hm, maybe it's the "at least" that worries you. Hm...

[flockmastoR]

Offseason Classics 2024/25 - Proposal - Draft v1

October 2024
27.10. GP Brescia (3)
31.10. GP Coimbra (3)

November 2024
01.11. Gran Prix de Agadir (2)
04.11. Jable - Al Farandis (2)
07.11. San Francisco classic (3)
14.11. Bosque Estatal Toro Negro Cup (2)
16.11. Seychelles Vacation Race (NEW)
19.11. Kisoro - Kabale (3)
22.11. Dolisie - Point Noire (2)
27.11. Boucles de Wallis et Futuna (3)
29.11. Napier bluff Hill Circuit (3)

December 2024
04.12. Villalba GP (2)
08.12. GP de Papeete (TTT, 2)
15.12. GP Canyon de Chelly(3)
18.12. Tarse - Tepekoy - Tarse (NEW)

23.12. Pavés d. Noel (needs a new race/profil)
24.12. X-Mas Islands
25.12. Betlehem
26.12. Tour d. Herne
31.12. St. Sylv/M St. Sylv

January 2025
01.01. GP Letzeburg (3)
03.01. Colombo - Agampodigama (2)
05.01. Aizawl Cup (3)
12.01. El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali(2)
15.01. Trofeo de Presa Allende (NEW)

OUT
El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Medelin
Itabirito - Ouro Preto
Yap Island Cup

All in all, we have the following distribution of races (including the fixed date classics like Tour de Herne etc.):
Mo: 2
Tu: 4
We: 6
Th: 3
Fr: 4
Sa: 1
So: 5

Discussion Points (from my perspective)
1) Spots
I took the spots from the October preview and the FL proposal and shifted around a bit, originally we had 9 Sunday spots, last year we ended up with 4.
2) Race selection
I added the pave race Trofeo de Presa Allende on a regular spot in January, as we have Paves de Noel as pave race in December and usually it is hard to find pave profiles fitting in the regions. We could also discuss about establishing Trofeo de Presa Allende as a fixed Pave de Noel profil. Pro: no need to find fitting profiles, contra: I like the idea of a fixed spot race with changing profiles. The other 2 races were mainly chosen to add some underrepresented regions (ASIA/Africa).
3) Regions, all in all I tried to select the races fitting the regions. This year CAM is placed at the end of the offseason where no classic is taking place, so I filled the missing spots within the other regions with those races (they are all over the place now)

PS: I vote to change the name of El Triptico de Colombia: Trofeo de Cali to just Trofeo de Cali

Edit: Ehime Cycling Cup was replaced due to climate conditions in Japan

[Gipfelstuermer]

Nice to have the plan in advance, thanks. Good for time-constrained teams which like to plan their participation

Discussion Points (from my perspective)
1) Spots
I took the spots from the October preview and the FL proposal and shifted around a bit, originally we had 9 Sunday spots, last year we ended up with 4.

I vote for a bit more Saturday if it fits the calendar. Just a personal preference for nice long afternoon classics on the weekend.

contra: I like the idea of a fixed spot race with changing profiles.

THIS!

[Pokemon Club]

Just one thing, Itabirito-Ouro Preto. If the designer, would just decide to prolong the race a few km, put the finish line somewhere else in the finishing circuit, big chances it's cat 3 next year and loses a lot of its minus votes this year! Do it! Do it! Make it more open, make the MPR open!

Just saw the message.
I don't know with this editor how to find old profiles and change it so even if I would I couldn't

[Robyklebt]

You need to remember the profile code or part of it. In race profile, click search profile, enter the profile code. From then on you have to some copy stuff, did it once, don't really remember myself, ask Gipfel or Alk

[Pokemon Club]

You need to remember the profile code or part of it. In race profile, click search profile, enter the profile code. From then on you have to some copy stuff, did it once, don't really remember myself, ask Gipfel or Alk

Ok thanks

[Robyklebt]

Completely forgot my complaining campaign here...

1) 18.12. Ehime Cycling Cup (NEW)
December in Japan... Japan still has a winter. I don't really think races in Japan are good for the offseason, as a general rule. There is indeed something called winter in Japan. Now Ehime, in Shikoku.. ok, never been in Shikoku in Winter, but I assume that it's not THAT different from Tokyo.
https://www.data.jma.go.jp/cpd/longfcst ... ikoku.html
Temperature in Matsuyama should be very similar to Takamatsu. Where it's max between a bit over 10, my eyes say 12, minimum a tiny bit under 5, let's say 4.5 That of course is not extremly cold and in the city. The awesome Ehime Cycling Cup goes up a bit, probably a bit over 500 meters, so there colder again... It's not impossible to ride a race there in December probably, but is it ideal?
Since this is one of the races that got in with 1 nomination (and pro forma you might have given those ones an explicit + vote, instead of the implicit one) IMO would not be wrong to exchange it for another one with a single + as well.

There was more, but I seem to have forgotten plus now I'm dominating some great race.

[flockmastoR]

Completely forgot my complaining campaign here...

1) 18.12. Ehime Cycling Cup (NEW)
December in Japan... Japan still has a winter. I don't really think races in Japan are good for the offseason, as a general rule. There is indeed something called winter in Japan. Now Ehime, in Shikoku.. ok, never been in Shikoku in Winter, but I assume that it's not THAT different from Tokyo.
https://www.data.jma.go.jp/cpd/longfcst ... ikoku.html
Temperature in Matsuyama should be very similar to Takamatsu. Where it's max between a bit over 10, my eyes say 12, minimum a tiny bit under 5, let's say 4.5 That of course is not extremly cold and in the city. The awesome Ehime Cycling Cup goes up a bit, probably a bit over 500 meters, so there colder again... It's not impossible to ride a race there in December probably, but is it ideal?
Since this is one of the races that got in with 1 nomination (and pro forma you might have given those ones an explicit + vote, instead of the implicit one) IMO would not be wrong to exchange it for another one with a single + as well.

There was more, but I seem to have forgotten plus now I'm dominating some great race.

Also doubted that the climate in Japan is fitting, but didn't check it. Think I wanted to check it but just forgot it. Also that is a reason why I call the region India, South-East Asia, Indonesia. Always considered the climate to be more like in central europe.

For the moment, I am for replacing it with the race Tarse - Tepekoy - Tarse in Turkey. But will post my proposal for each month now individually in the calendar thread as well as soon as there is a preview. Discussion can be placed there as well until final pdf is on

[Robyklebt]

That might actually be worse.
While the weather in Mersin, the city on the coast, is slightly warmer than Ehime in December 17-9 mean max and min,(although that being meditarrenean might be November then so warmer), the problem is Tepeköy and surroundings. 1300 above sea level. And looking for pictures you also get stuff like this:

Posted on 2. January 19. There's places labeled as "ski resorts" that aren't higher not too far from Tepeköy either. But have some doubts if these really are ski resorts, but who knows.
But looking at the pictures on google maps, there's quite a few snowy pictures, again, can't guarantee they are put in the right place by the guy who took the picture... but it doesn't seem unlikely that there is snowfall at 1300 meter above sea level in winter.

Considering that, IMO Ehime is the better choice. For December 100%, for November I don't really know, maybe speaking turkish would help getting more info about the region

[flockmastoR]

That might actually be worse.

I want to resign

[flockmastoR]

Ok, take a closer look at the proposals. Climate indeed is a factor, many races would make sense when you ride it in Octover/November. So after all, the regions order maybe shouldn't be shuffeled too much from the original order. Problem is, that spots in October/early November are rare.

So options are 1) Cancel the spot, 2) Get something different without climate problems (Fuerteventura Holiday GP, Padre Hurtado - Pudahuel)