Suggestion for the offseason calendar

[team fl]

Wer also could so 3/3 Edition for these tour then for example.

also, why not for that. important thing would be to know the times in advance, that would help team to decide which tour to ride and decide forms before the month change

For info, the editions & times will be finalized with the monthly PDF (as usual).

If we ride both, with TdP being Cat. 2 in-game and TdF being Cat. 1 (as UCI 2.2), I would probably suggest more times for TdP and less times for TdF.

Some data about the number of participants at last years TdP, to help decision making about that (if necessary):

- 09h: 9
- 15h: 5
- 19h: 10
- 22h: 15

[cataracs]

There's a big lack of respect for the pavés tour here.
I blame FL for considering this shit tour in Africa.

TdP shouldn't get a parallel tour or an rsf classic... it's an important race, help make the participation bigger instead.

Faso doesn't belong to the c4f calendar simply. 10 days are too much. We already have Andes, December and January tours as 2 weeks stage races...

If anything it should be moved (TdF) to November, parallel to the Andes with 2-2 or 3-3 then climbers teams and sprinter teams can have their share and everyone will be happy.

[team fl]

There's a big lack of respect for the pavés tour here.
I blame FL for considering this shit tour in Africa.

TdP shouldn't get a parallel tour or an rsf classic... it's an important race, help make the participation bigger instead.

Faso doesn't belong to the c4f calendar simply. 10 days are too much. We already have Andes, December and January tours as 2 weeks stage races...

If anything it should be moved (TdF) to November, parallel to the Andes with 2-2 or 3-3 then climbers teams and sprinter teams can have their share and everyone will be happy.

Down with pavé! It's for nerds and people with an inferiority complex. Anyway, I sense a big lack of respect for real African races here, even calling it "shit" tour. Sounds almost racist to me...

[Gipfelstuermer]

It is true that TdP has a longer history in the game and, consequently, a higher in-game category. (With famous GC winners Montesinos, vantWout and Poulnikov just to name a few! ) But it doesn't mean that under no circumstances there could be anything parallel. Andes is even higher category, but still has a parallel stage race every year.

As an idea, what if we move the RSF classic from 30th to 31st and add a small 3-day tour from 28th to 30th, making the TdP & Off-Season classics main programme even more attractive as compared to TdF, but allowing TdF to take place with a limited number of editions (1 or max. 2). And there would still be a fair amount of days solely for one day races (8 in October, 8 in November).

[olmania]

It is true that TdP has a longer history in the game and, consequently, a higher in-game category. (With famous GC winners Montesinos, vantWout and Poulnikov just to name a few! ) But it doesn't mean that under no circumstances there could be anything parallel. Andes is even higher category, but still has a parallel stage race every year.

As an idea, what if we move the RSF classic from 30th to 31st and add a small 3-day tour from 28th to 30th, making the TdP & Off-Season classics main programme even more attractive as compared to TdF, but allowing TdF to take place with a limited number of editions (1 or max. 2). And there would still be a fair amount of days solely for one day races (8 in October, 8 in November).

Agree and I like the idea.

[cataracs]

It is true that TdP has a longer history in the game and, consequently, a higher in-game category. (With famous GC winners Montesinos, vantWout and Poulnikov just to name a few! ) But it doesn't mean that under no circumstances there could be anything parallel. Andes is even higher category, but still has a parallel stage race every year.

What's your point here? We're not comparing TdP and Andes. Putting a 10 days flat tour parallel to Andes will not affect the participation at all. But putting a 10 days flat tour parallel to pavés completely kills it.

As an idea, what if we move the RSF classic from 30th to 31st and add a small 3-day tour from 28th to 30th, making the TdP & Off-Season classics main programme even more attractive as compared to TdF, but allowing TdF to take place with a limited number of editions (1 or max. 2). And there would still be a fair amount of days solely for one day races (8 in October, 8 in November).

That won't make TdP+small tour + classic the main program. Put Faso parallel to Giro and you'll see Faso with higher participation...

[Robyklebt]

Let's just ride the Tour du Faso every month!

[team fl]

That won't make TdP+small tour + classic the main program. Put Faso parallel to Giro and you'll see Faso with higher participation...

Besides the point that you can't prove any of your claims and you deny a comparison of the TdP with Andes but compare it with the Giro: You're saying that most players would prefer to ride the Tour de Faso but you still want to force them to ride the Tour des Pavés because you like it more (resp. because you subjectively think it's more important)? Is that correct?

And of course the TdP and a small tour after it makes it more attractive not to ride the TdF than only the TdP and TdF as overlapping tour. No matter if the TdP or the TdF is more attractive in general. It's two tours vs. one: more money, more points, more variety in profiles, more flexibility.$

And I totally support Big Donkey's recommendation!

[Robyklebt]

Ok, after some friendly trolling, back to serious.

As FL with his numbers and Taka with his posts showed (I suspect they might have the same opinion but just argue for arguing's sake) the Pavé tour had a participation problem last year. And it usually has one, that wasn't a one-off last year.

So what to do with this weak plant?
-Keep it but don't water it. Let it wither, rot!
-Cut it and throw it in the garbage
-Keep it and nurture it, hoping it develops into a beautiful flower! (Just to be devoured by some Donkey)

To me the waterless existence for it seems pointless. Downright idiotic. And that would be to offer the Pavétour and a stage race, especially one that needs the same type of rider (lots of flat) in parallel.

So the logical conclusion by Donkey is:

A is out. So is C2, ride real Faso on the wrong date, just makes no sense.

-Faso real date, Tour de Pavé in November. Negative as Tukh noted that some teams might have their pavé riders with an eye to late October. With the Pavé Tour then logically from the 4th on, that would mean 2 more possible downtrainings for some riders.
-No Faso
-No Tour de Pavé

Let's forget the parallel theories. Decision is first on what, Pavé or Faso or both?

There the Donkeypinion is:
There really is no need for Faso. 10 days... if we really want a real race in Africa the Sahel thing would make more sense, it's shorter. But if Faso is wanted, then so be it, but then either cancel or change the date of the pavé tour.

[cataracs]

That won't make TdP+small tour + classic the main program. Put Faso parallel to Giro and you'll see Faso with higher participation...

Besides the point that you can't prove any of your claims and you deny a comparison of the TdP with Andes but compare it with the Giro: You're saying that most players would prefer to ride the Tour de Faso but you still want to force them to ride the Tour des Pavés because you like it more (resp. because you subjectively think it's more important)? Is that correct?

It's not correct. Maybe if you read with your eyes instead of your ass then you'll get my point?

[Hansa]

have 0 clue what takas points is,

tdp is certainly not a very important tour, its a specialist tour for special pave teams. no need to force everyone to ride there, the numbers from last year also didnt show super high interest in it.

so a parallel tour on another speciality should be no issue.

have less edition for tour de faso to force certain teams into tdp or not riding one of these tours is a possibility but i still like 3+3 or 4+3 editions on these 2 tours.

[Radunion]

We have parallel tours in the real season (and I think we should have more of them), so I do not see the point of the discussion. There is a strong pave lobby in this game and many fantasy pave races. I do not see, why we have so many fantasy pave races outside the spring classics season but this is no reason to attack people who want those races. Just offer two or three times for each tour. If the participation is high offer more times next year.

[team fl]

That won't make TdP+small tour + classic the main program. Put Faso parallel to Giro and you'll see Faso with higher participation...

Besides the point that you can't prove any of your claims and you deny a comparison of the TdP with Andes but compare it with the Giro: You're saying that most players would prefer to ride the Tour de Faso but you still want to force them to ride the Tour des Pavés because you like it more (resp. because you subjectively think it's more important)? Is that correct?

It's not correct. Maybe if you read with your eyes instead of your ass then you'll get my point?

You wrote about "shit", so i thought it's appropriate. But it seems others have the same problem. You could explain it rather than insult asses with your implication they could be interested in your "points".

[cataracs]

I blame FL for considering this shit tour in Africa.

This is obviously a joke FL, that's the first point you didn't get...then you made it personal lol it's a joke bro chill.

My other points are clear...

One: Pavés tour is important and we should try to make the participation in it bigger. So putting a longer awesome stage race parallel to it doesn't sound right. So either have it earlier from 7 to 11, or just cancel it...

Two: Faso should be cancelled. Because:

*It's a free salary race that gives too much money.

Too much money means it kills the participation in TdP (which is already a problem) if it's parallel.

Too much money is already a problem in the game.

Too much money will be given in December January and the other small tours already, we don't need another bigger money giving tour like Faso.



Now I have a third point: this whole discussion should be cancelled. There are calendar planners, there could be a calendar committee to plan this. Since the teams participating here are mostly money freaks.

I might also have a fourth point that is delete the third point. Because in case we get a calendar committee it will most likely be those money freaks volunteering then it'll be even worse xD

[Bear]

I dont even know if I can ride Tour de Paves… but it has some history in c4f. If we cut all races which had now participation in the past… we could cut more.

If the majority wants to ride Faso, we better search a new date for TDP in the Future. For 2024 team planning is done. So I think we should keep TDP and check for new Dates in 2025.

I dont know about Faso. Maybe just do a poll who really wants to ride it.

[drei.zehn]

Faso over TdP

[Radunion]

If we want to ride Faso we could also discuss some other 2.2 races in the off-season.

Vuelta Ciclistica Internacional a Guatemala
25 Oct - 03 Nov 2024
Probably not if we ride Faso alrady

Vuelta Ciclística al Ecuador
11 Nov - 17 Nov 2024

Tour du Sahel
10 Dec - 14 Dec 2024

Vuelta Ciclista Internacional a Costa Rica
13 Dec - 22 Dec 2024

I do not think it will be easy to get the information required to design and my Spanish is not good enough to get the info already available on the websites.