Nationenkomitee / Nations Committee

[Robyklebt]

Yeah, those RSF little kings are horrible, you ask a question and you never get an answer. Happened to me too, I asked the calendar king a question, and after 10 days still didn't have an answer. Only got insulted and had to pay 800'000 penalty (after insulting him back, occasionally (the little king than made up some little story about persecution, he's like that you know) Now it's been a tiny bit over 10 days, and still waiting for an answer actually.

So while I sympathize with your plight, consider yourself lucky. It's been only been a few days. And more importantly, luckily for you (and the whole game) the little king I had to deal with has no say in the nations committee. So you can hope for fairness, a normal discussion and a good solution to the problem. With "my" little king in the nation's committee? Hopeless, you'd still be waiting for an answer in 10 years.

[Pokemon Club]

Yeah, those RSF little kings are horrible, you ask a question and you never get an answer. Happened to me too, I asked the calendar king a question, and after 10 days still didn't have an answer. Only got insulted and had to pay 800'000 penalty (after insulting him back, occasionally (the little king than made up some little story about persecution, he's like that you know) Now it's been a tiny bit over 10 days, and still waiting for an answer actually.

So while I sympathize with your plight, consider yourself lucky. It's been only been a few days. And more importantly, luckily for you (and the whole game) the little king I had to deal with has no say in the nations committee. So you can hope for fairness, a normal discussion and a good solution to the problem. With "my" little king in the nation's committee? Hopeless, you'd still be waiting for an answer in 10 years.

A good thing FL doesn't have the time to do his job correctly in NK, seems this free time will be needed to draw races with you since now

[Robyklebt]

Why is it a good thing if FL isn't doing his job correctly? I'd think it would be a bad thing.

[Pokemon Club]

Why is it a good thing if FL isn't doing his job correctly? I'd think it would be a bad thing.

He is happy to do it wrong, so why it is bad ?

[Robyklebt]

I think you're talking about "my" little king, the calendar guy.
This FL dude, I'm not even convinced that he actually is doing it wrong. But if he is, it doesn't matter if he is happy about it or not, wrong is wrong. Surprised you didn't realize that yourself.

[team fl]

Why is it a good thing if FL isn't doing his job correctly? I'd think it would be a bad thing.

He is happy to do it wrong, so why it is bad ?

Why do you think I am doing it wrong? And why do you further assume that I am happy doing things wrong? I find your approach rather defamating... Again, if you lack arguments, you just put the other person in a bad position by assuming bad things about him or her to put yourself and your "cause" in a superior position.

Anyway, I can assure you, I will have nothing to do with any decision about your what so ever great rider name at all. As, it seems contrary to you, I know when I push boundaries, am biased and should take my self out of the process. So to make it clear: The decision is up to the other members of the NC, not to me.

Until then, have fun look cool. Whatever...

[Hunsrueck]

Give us some links and we will see.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_(given_name)

Mayo (given name)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mayo is the given name of:

Mayo Kawasaki (born 1963), Japanese actor
Mayo Hibi (born 1996), Japanese tennis player
Mayo Okamoto (born 1974), Japanese singer-songwriter
Mayo Suzukaze (born 1960), Japanese actress
Mayo Yamaura (born 1984), Japanese curler

http://bakemonogatari.wikia.com/wiki/Mayoi_Hachikuji

Mayoi Hachikuji (八九寺 真宵, Hachikuji Mayoi) is the ghost of a fifth-grade elementary school girl who was killed in a traffic accident while trying to reach her mother's home. Since her death, she became an oddity who has haunted people that have the urge to avoid going home.

Mayoi's first name can be read in a number of ways. Reading the original kanji of her name gives the meaning "true" and "evening". Alternatively, it can be read as "迷い" which means "to lose one's way".

Likewise, Mayoi's last name Hachikuji has alternate interpretations. Although the name consists of the characters for "eight", "nine" and "temple", the kanji for "eight" and "nine" can also be read as "yaku" together, which means misfortune (厄). 89th temple could refer to a trope of Buddhism where only 88 temples are allowed to go on a procession and so being the 89th temple is a sign of misfortune.

Here briefly my opinion as NC member.

Thanks for the link for Mayo....i think no NC member has a problem with it.

The link for the surename Hachikuji states that the name is only in a comics ending! So no real name.
Now you can step on whether he sounds realistic or not. Since I'm not a friend of "sounds realistic" he does not get a thumbs up from me either.

If the other members in the NC have a different opinion, they will handle the case accordingly. If not, Majo remains stateless.

[Pokemon Club]

For Hachikuji surname it isn't because we don't know if it is real that it isn't real. I can find you some people name Hachikuji on FB for example but looks impossible to confirm it is really the surname of the people or not

[NoPikouze]

Hi guys

Is it really necessary to remove nation from my rider Pieter Josefmarie ?
Maybe it is not an existing last name, but it could very likely be one...

Regards

[Pokemon Club]

Hi guys

Is it really necessary to remove nation from my rider Pieter Josefmarie ?
Maybe it is not an existing last name, but it could very likely be one...

Regards

You didn't know that NK have a dictionnary with all name of the world ?

[Laurens88]

Hi guys

Is it really necessary to remove nation from my rider Pieter Josefmarie ?
Maybe it is not an existing last name, but it could very likely be one...

Regards

Josefmarie is not an existing last name in the Netherlands (@Poke: actually we DO have a database with all existing Dutch last names ). Basically it is a combination of two first names and therefore to me/us it doesn't sound realistic as a last name as well.

[NoPikouze]

Yes it is a combination of 2 first names indeed.
Which, to me, sounds quite realistic.
A lot of family names are based on first names.
- the classic "son of" thing : pietersen, janssen
- also other combinations : pietersma, pietersveld, pietermaat

I admit, 2 first names is not necessarily a real thing.
But still, I believe it is realistic enough (look and sound) to be acceptable.

[Pokemon Club]

JAPANESE NATIONALITY FOR MAYO HACHIKUJI

[Pokemon Club]

I have some doubt on some points with the current members :

Members

Alphabetical Order, 16 December 2012

Alpha Centauri
Auxilium Torino
Hansa-Team
lesossies
LibertySeguros
Radler
RC Matrosen OK
RS Ostfriesland
r Quick
Team FL
Team Hunsrueck
Team Ruhrgebiet – Chair
Team THOMAS

Besides Buhman (Radler) and lesossies, only the chair is able to appoint Members of the Nations Committee.

Where can we find an update list of members ?

Methods, functions and possibilities

The Nations Committee (NC) site contains a list with the applications for new names, a list with the ongoing applications for names by the NC members (wrong nationality, clone, no name, etc.) and a chat, over which the NC members are able communicate.

Furthermore, a NC members has the possibility to add an already existing (and processed by the NC) name to the ongoing applications.

In addition, there is a Link: „Jurymitglieder“ (members of the NC) which shows the current members of the NC. Here, Buhmann, lesossies and the chair may appoint new or remove old members.

When a rider’s name is created, his name shows up in the applications for new names list. Each NC member has the following options to process a name from this list.

1. OK
The rider’s name is ok: it exists in reality or at least sounds realistic and thus fits to the given nationality. If three NC members click the OK button (names are visible on the list), the rid-er’s name is approved and will disappear from the new name list.

2. Wrong nationality
If a NC members thinks that the rider’s name and nationality do not fit, this button may be clicked. The user affected receives and automatic message and the possibility to chose an-other nationality. Until then, the name stays on the list for the current applications for names by the NC members. The rider (name) disappears from the new name list.

3. No name
If a rider’s name on the list does not exist or does not sound realistic, this is the option to chose for the NC member. The rider affected will be stateless subsequently. The rider (name) disappears from the new name list and shows up in the current applications list.

4. Clone
If a rider’s name on the list is a so called „clone“ – a real existing name in an alternate form – this function may be used by the NC member. The rider affected will be stateless as with the “No name”-option. The rider (name) disappears from the new name list and shows up in the current applications list.

5. Individual
With this function a NC member can appoint a rider to another nationality or make him stateless while having the possibility to write a customized message to the user affected.

Seems hard to have 3 thumbs if there is only 2 actives members. OK I exagerate. For sure FL Auxi Huns are active. Quick and RSO must be active sometimes too. And after ?
I ask a changement of rules for that realistic name part. When I see how many riders are currently with wrong nationality, absurd name or joking name, I won't accept that Hachikuji stay stateless like that because FL has some personnal grief on me when it is japanese people themselves which invented this name !

[Laurens88]

The Nations Committee indeed has some new members and some old members have left. Perhaps it would be good to update the list in the first post. At least currently Radler, lesossies, Team Ruhrgebiet, Team FL, Bugatti, Wookie, Team Hunsrueck, Alpha Centauri, Lenny SnakeCycling, Semper Fidelis, Ambition and Rapid Vitesse are members. Although indeed not all members are active all the time we still never fail to have a name approved (or rejected) within a few days by 3 members.

What is good for you to know is that even though FL was the one who pressed the button to take away Mayo's nationality this doesn't mean that the name is automatically disapproved. All other members have a chance to reject the proposal and reasoning. None of the other members have used this option.
After your initial response, we have discussed the case internally. FL explained his opinion and gave others the option to overrule him. Nobody thought this was necessary in this case. Then it's our policy that if a nationality is taken away, a user should send us proof that the name actually exists to get the nationality back. Even though you are a respected user (at least by me), we cannot change this policy just for you and we treat this case like any other case (so there is also no personal vendetta going on or anything).

So far you have not given us any evidence that the name Hachikuji actually exists as a last name for real people in Japan (and sorry, Facebook last names are not evidence, especially in this case). To some people the name may sound realistic, but there are multiple interpretations possible for this rule. In that case, the opinion of the nations committee will prevail. Perhaps we should adjust this rule, because indeed it's also bothering me a bit. But the best way to avoid a discussion about whether or not a name sounds realistic, is just to pick an existing name...

Once again, if you produce new and convincing evidence that Hachikuji is an existing last name, we are more than happy to give Mayo back the Japanese nationality.

[Pokemon Club]

Thanks for your answer.

And again I will repeat it. There is no evidence that the name exist. There is no evidence for that. But does the NK have a proof that the name doesn't exist ? If tomorrow I name a french rider Martin Quatrechemins, will you taken away the nationaly because it isn't real else that sound 100% french ? Even if all french community will find that OK ? Because if the only problem is "the name isn't real", there is no difference between that example and Hachikuji.

[Laurens88]

Thanks for your answer.

And again I will repeat it. There is no evidence that the name exist. There is no evidence for that. But does the NK have a proof that the name doesn't exist ? If tomorrow I name a french rider Martin Quatrechemins, will you taken away the nationaly because it isn't real else that sound 100% french ? Even if all french community will find that OK ? Because if the only problem is "the name isn't real", there is no difference between that example and Hachikuji.

The NK never has a responsibility to prove that a name doesn't exist. In many cases this will be impossible to prove. We are all volunteers with some knowledge about international names and do the best we can to keep the names in the game realistic. Of course we are only human and can make mistakes to disallow an existing name. In that case, the user can submit evidence that the name exists and we will correct our mistake. That is the most efficient way for the process to work.

In this case there apparently is no evidence that the name really exists. Then there is also no reason for us to change our decision, I'm afraid.

[Pokemon Club]

The NK never has a responsibility to prove that a name doesn't exist. In many cases this will be impossible to prove. We are all volunteers with some knowledge about international names and do the best we can to keep the names in the game realistic. Of course we are only human and can make mistakes to disallow an existing name. In that case, the user can submit evidence that the name exists and we will correct our mistake. That is the most efficient way for the process to work.

In this case there apparently is no evidence that the name really exists. Then there is also no reason for us to change our decision, I'm afraid.

Pay attention about what you say. Of course it is your responsability. Not your responsability to prove a name isn't real. But your responsability to prove and to explain why a name isn't correct.
Because a name can be realistic without be real. And here is the problem. All of you in the NK aren't able to advance an argue to explain in what the name isn't realistic.
Quite easy to understand why riders who are named "Ahhhhh Ahhhh" or "Adolf Hitler" aren't correct, it stays understandable for "Medaka Kurokami", "Alain Proust" or stuff like that. I want a develop answer for Mayo Hachikuji and not only something like like "we give her stateless and then we vote". If you aren't able to go further than that and to explain clearly why a name isn't realistic, you can just give back nationalties all riders you made stateless without reasons, or change your rules as it seems it isn't applicable anyway.

[Laurens88]

I just read the entire discussion and as FL indicated already earlier in this topic, he assumed that Mayo is a clone of the fictional character Mayoi Hachikuji (which is basically the proof behind our decision to call her a clone). That is not allowed. The only case when a clone can be allowed is when both the first and last name exist in real life. The last name doesn't (or at least you cannot prove it), so then the whole discussion about whether or not it sounds realistic is not even relevant any more. A clone is a clone.

End of discussion for me, I don't have time and energy for this any more.

[Pokemon Club]

I just read the entire discussion and as FL indicated already earlier in this topic, he assumed that Mayo is a clone of the fictional character Mayoi Hachikuji (which is basically the proof behind our decision to call her a clone). That is not allowed. The only case when a clone can be allowed is when both the first and last name exist in real life. The last name doesn't (or at least you cannot prove it), so then the whole discussion about whether or not it sounds realistic is not even relevant any more. A clone is a clone.

End of discussion for me, I don't have time and energy for this any more.

Seems you misunderstand the rules :

4. Clone
If a rider’s name on the list is a so called „clone“ – a real existing name in an alternate form – this function may be used by the NC member. The rider affected will be stateless as with the “No name”-option. The rider (name) disappears from the new name list and shows up in the current applications list.

But it isn't a real existing name, it is a fictional name. Nothing about that in the clone part sothere is no reason to talk about clone or not. Then I adapt the first name to fit to the reality, as Mayoi doesn't exist at all. So to resume :
1) It isn't a clone of a real person or a real name
2) The first name is real
3) The family name is more than realistic
4) Not a offensive name or joke

So no reason for Mayo Hachikuji will stay stateless in this condition.

[Robyklebt]

I won't accept that Hachikuji stay stateless like that because FL has some personnal grief on me when it is japanese people themselves which invented this name !

Again inventing stuff. FL clearly posted his reasoning in his first post.

Oh, kind, thank you almighty grand master. And I stupidly thought that the rider was referring to this caracter: http://bakemonogatari.wikia.com/wiki/Mayoi_Hachikuji

and hence is a clone. So as I am biased I guess, I let others in the NC decide the fate of this rider. Forgive me for my insulting decision I dared to take without being inspired by your visions.

To completely ignore what he wrote, and just claim that you are a victim of FL and his "personal grief" is of course insulting towards FL, dishonest and misleading towards everybody else,, but also very typical for you. How about you try to argue your case without insulting somebody?

And I found this part funny:

Not your responsability to prove a name isn't real. But your responsability to prove and to explain why a name isn't correct.
Because a name can be realistic without be real. And here is the problem. All of you in the NK aren't able to advance an argue to explain in what the name isn't realistic.

Really funny how high expectations you have for others. How they are required to explain stuff. But how little on the other hand you demand of yourself. Remember how impossible it was to get answers out of you when you were winter calendar dictator? How to this day you haven't been able to explain the reasoning behind your decisions?

But, let's forget all that. On this one here we could actually be allies.
I too think that the rules here need to be overworked. All those female names? How is that realistic? The names themselves might be real or realistic, yes, but when is the last time we had a real womens race here? We ride shitloads of real mens races, even Langkawi.... brrr. But can't remember a single women race we did.
So... let me ask you, enlightened nations committee, how then are female names realistic in the this game? They aren't. And be warned, enlightened committeers, the Donkey and Pokemon are now fighting to correctly implement the rules. Or if you want a more explicit version of rules. But IMO that shouldn't be necessary. Just enforce your own rules properly and let's get rid of those unrealistic female names in a game that only rides men races.

[NoPikouze]

Anyway, about this "realistic" name thing, it looks to me it's way too serious. This is going nowhere.
In real life, everything gets mixed up now. Will you require more realistic than reality ?

Some examples :
- a dutch Mohammed Groenewegen might exist in reality (dutch father and foreign mother who gets to choose the first name).
- Or a Kevin Aissati
- Also, real people can switch nationality so you can have a mexican Bill Gates.

So, in the end, what is and should be the goal of all the NK's work ?
I'm assuming the goal is to have a nice looking game, with nice looking rider names and no major errors/abuses/weird things.

But I personnaly don't see why it has to be taken any further than that.
To me, pokemon's guy looks japanese enough, and my guy looks dutch enough. I haven't been reading the previous pages for other cases.
What is the value for the game in denying this and making them nationless ? To me it's even worse than leaving it be.

tl;dr : what is the point of these nationality rulings ?

[katiki]

hello,

in my team Wanty Group Gobert i got names of real riders so very realistic so idk why they retire their nationality...

can i have it back and little mistake in type its Lander Seynaeve

thanks

[Hunsrueck]

hello,

in my team Wanty Group Gobert i got names of real riders so very realistic so idk why they retire their nationality...

can i have it back and little mistake in type its Lander Seynaeve

thanks

I thought your Team is Mez Team Belgium??????

The rider Lander Seynaeve did not exist.

[katiki]

Hi,

my pc crashed so i cant play for some days/weeks so i stopped with mtb and ill start new team when i get my new pc, leso knows it so its legal

Greets