Nationenkomitee / Nations Committee

[Moscow Team Pro]

Explain to me why you removed the Belgian nationality in FELIX SCHOTTE.

Thank you

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberic_Schotte

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_Sellier

I think it's FELIX, both SCHOTTE, are both first and last names of Belgium.

[team fl]

Explain to me why you removed the Belgian nationality in FELIX SCHOTTE.

Thank you

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberic_Schotte

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A9lix_Sellier

I think it's FELIX, both SCHOTTE, are both first and last names of Belgium.

Thanks for the clarification, flag will be on the way soon.

[ariostea]

you took away the italian flag from Gianluca Peric?

Honestly?

I mean Nations Committee was founded to punish riders like "Rider One" , "Rider Two" and such stuff -and NOT to be a race police. Please overthink the way you work. I mean this is still a game...

Go to a city like Trieste - there half of the people have slovenian roots - go there and i find a Peric for me - won´t be too hard, i guess - and then give him back his nation.

thanks.

[team fl]

you took away the italian flag from Gianluca Peric?

Honestly?

I mean Nations Committee was founded to punish riders like "Rider One" , "Rider Two" and such stuff -and NOT to be a race police. Please overthink the way you work. I mean this is still a game...

Go to a city like Trieste - there half of the people have slovenian roots - go there and i find a Peric for me - won´t be too hard, i guess - and then give him back his nation.

thanks.

Do you have a serious source that Peric is an Italian family name? Good, show it to us.

You can't expect the NC to know every detail about every nationality and each reagional aspect of it. So help us and we can help you

[ariostea]

what the hell is an italian family name?

is Mesut Özil a German name? Miroslav Klose? German enough?

why does RSF have a face control/ race control like this?

If i was new at the game i would immediately stop playing...

Is this what we have this committee for? I mean do sth. against the real idiotic stuff - otherwise let it go...

[Robyklebt]

A fundamentalist!

He's right (and he's back, yeah, I'm looking for my siebing handbook written by Kharlamov) though.

Slovenian minority in Trieste. With that Peric should already be realistic enough really. Even if there was no Peric to be found there. But they are found there.

http://www.paginebianche.it/page?btt=1& ... ieste&ind=

[team fl]

Why so aggressive Mr. Ariostea?

here an example on how it would work with Mr. Özil and Mr. Klose:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Klose -> German. check.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesut_%C3%96zil -> German. check.


And Roby, thanks for that, can be taken into consideration. But usually, phone books are no proof for that, I am sorry. It just proves that people with the name Peric live there. Not that they have the Italian nationality.

Anyway, as this all sounds very logic, I guess, with a link from Ariostea, there is no need to be popeliger than the pope.

And: Ariostea, you're free to join the NC or to add to the NC guidelines discussion. And you're free to leave this game immediatly, of course. You unthankful prick.

[Robyklebt]

No, it doesn't prove it, but again. It doesn't need to be proven that there are people with the name Peric, once it's proven that there is a slovenian minority there. Which hasn't been proven.... but since you went and looked for Özil and Kluge you could as well go and check Trieste really A slovenian minority makes slovenian names realistic in Trieste.

And while a whole list of Peric doesn't prove that they have Italian nationality, it makes it very likely.... especially if some of them have names like Angelo. (Even if Elvis is cooler)

[team fl]

Well, if Ariostea would have just explained his case in an acceptable manner, no problem. Sounds realistic, logic conclusion. etc. But I don't understand why people can't accept that four (active) guys in the NC just can't know everything and that such things happen and we need the help of the community or in the is case Ariostea's help to get it right. And it's not really much of a burden to show up in this threat and do that without implying that the NC only consists of racist and stupid bastards.

But I am pissed off now and I won't do shit to get this rider his nationality back. Maybe others are more in the mood. If you want to start the discussion about how to treat rider names and what is okay and what not, feel free. Until then, we stick to the rules, which hopefully will become very strict or very loose soon. Because with this hybrid solution it's too much for the number of active members to check everything correctly on their own. And with users acting like Ariostea, it's also not much fun either.

[Robyklebt]

Exactly the "realistic" solution makes it easy for you. No need to check if the name really exists.

And makes it easier for the user as well actually, let's assume I want a Liechtenkiesler....
I check the phone book, find the nice guy Vertebralis Naturheilpraxis. Ok, bad example, let's try another one.

Amann. Lots of Ammans in Vaduz. I get myself an Amann. Sounds realistic. Now, I have NO proof that Amann is a FL nationality name, I would then have to google around to see if I find a politician, painter, sexual predator with a Wikipedia entry, whatever of an Amann with Kiesler nationality to be sure it's a Kiesler. With the realistic thing, just 50 Amanns in the phone book seems enough to me.
Still a bad example because you are Kiesler, and Kieselland being a Miniland has stricter rules here than Switzerland or Germany... but I hope you get the point.

[Robyklebt]

But I am pissed off now and I won't do shit to get this rider his nationality back.

And of course your job isn't to be pissed off, but to do the right thing! Which is giving that Italian dude his passport. Not let your ego get in the way of the right decision. Something which hasn't been a problem for the current committee actually, we haven't had scandalous decisions due to egos like there were in the past.

[team fl]

But I am pissed off now and I won't do shit to get this rider his nationality back.

And of course your job isn't to be pissed off, but to do the right thing! Which is giving that Italian dude his passport. Not let your ego get in the way of the right decision. Something which hasn't been a problem for the current committee actually, we haven't had scandalous decisions due to egos like there were in the past.

I am not actively doing something wrong. I will just passivly let it happen .

Every other member of the NC is as able as me to decide about that. Due to bias, I just exclude myself from this case. Ha!

[team fl]

Exactly the "realistic" solution makes it easy for you. No need to check if the name really exists.

And makes it easier for the user as well actually, let's assume I want a Liechtenkiesler....
I check the phone book, find the nice guy Vertebralis Naturheilpraxis. Ok, bad example, let's try another one.

Amann. Lots of Ammans in Vaduz. I get myself an Amann. Sounds realistic. Now, I have NO proof that Amann is a FL nationality name, I would then have to google around to see if I find a politician, painter, sexual predator with a Wikipedia entry, whatever of an Amann with Kiesler nationality to be sure it's a Kiesler. With the realistic thing, just 50 Amanns in the phone book seems enough to me.
Still a bad example because you are Kiesler, and Kieselland being a Miniland has stricter rules here than Switzerland or Germany... but I hope you get the point.

If you have to check every rider that sounds suspicious (thouroughly)... good luck. That's not bearable. And do it for more complicated nations with lots of ethnicies, even more good luck.

In this case it was the not-knowing that there is a Slowenian minority with (maybe) Italian Citizenship living in that region (Trieste). Because the easy thinking goes like "Peric", ah, that's a Slavic name, Balcan, Ex-Yugoslavian stye. But not Italy. Let's do a short google check. Nah, no person with Italian citizenship found with that name. Second try, nope. Let's let the player chose again or come up with an explanation. Done.

If you have to check every case like this even more thoroughly, I write it again, it's not possible to be an NC member just voluntarily.

And just to be clear. Of course I get your point. It's the right spirit. But as written before, to do that correctly we need the help of the community or the affected players sometimes. Because mistakes will happen, no matter which guidelines you follow. Just because it's a simple thing for the affected player, it's might not be for the deciding NC member. And exactly then, the player can help. Here. Nicely.

I am even suprised, that with the many riders we deal with every day, every new month, there is not more going on in this thread

[Robyklebt]

Yes, but with a STRICT thing you would have to check even more names. Now, you get Rudolf Peric in Switzerland you think another Jugooooooooooosecondoooooooooooo, let him pass, with the strict thing I sometimes see demanded, there would have to be proof there is indeed a Peric with swiss nationality in Switzerland. More work.

And I know it's lots of work, and I know there will be mistakes too. Unavoidable. Somebody like Peric now staying without nationality though isn't an unavoidable mistake though. Now you know that there is a slovenian minority in Italy. In case you still need a link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovene_minority_in_Italy

First paragraph:

Slovene minority in Italy (Italian: Minoranza slovena in Italia, Slovene: Slovenska manjšina v Italiji), also known as Slovenes in Italy (Italian: Sloveni in Italia, Slovene: Slovenci v Italiji) is the name given to Italian citizens who belong to the autochthonous Slovene ethnic and linguistic minority living in the Italian autonomous region of Friuli – Venezia Giulia. The vast majority of members of the Slovene ethnic minority live in the Provinces of Trieste, Gorizia, and Udine. Estimates of their number vary significantly; most figures speak of 60,000 to 90,000 people, representing between 5% and 7.5% of the overall population of the region.

Even if you are not happy with Aris behaviour,(which indeed wasn't all that nice, agree) now you have all the necessary information and as a voluntary unpaid public servant of RSF should do the right thing and give that Peric his Italian passport.

[team fl]

Grrr... Ari pays you for that I hope

Edith says thanks to RS Ostfriesland for handling that case very fast.

[Robyklebt]

No, he can't pay me, I'm too expensive, after all I'm a well known lobbyist. He occasionnally let's me believe I can win something for a while instead.

[RS Ostfriesland]

To make a long story short:

His passport is on the way. The system needs 3 days. So be patient please Ari.



Some notes from me:

We have hundreds of new riders every month and we are not able to work without mistakes. So if you thing we made a mistake, post it here and were finding a way to clear the case but post it in a friendly way. Easier for both of us.

We are only four active members in the nc. One of them is also a admin and two of the other three are also active in the fpc. So as a voluntary unpaid servant of RSF we are spending every day many time that the users can play a game every day, that is working fine, without any big bugs, really realistic and without some bigger troubles between the different teams. So if youre not ok with our work, feel free to support. Would be very cool if we can find a native italian or spanish or turkish or chinese or ... member for the work of a voluntary unpaid servant for RSF.

[ariostea]

thanks Ostfriesland!

i was upset - cause for me this is racist stuff. None of my former italians had to prove his italian idendity (and some had really idiotic names) - the guy named Peric has to... it´s like the police stoping only cars driven by black people.

IMO you are far too strict here. And why there has to be a person in reality who has this name? Couldn´t there be a Mario Gomez in Germany if the football player didn´t exist? why? I don´t get the whole thing...

focus on the real shitty names , but stay away of demanding race separation... less work for you as well.

did not want to piss anyone here - but i don´t like this Lega Nord stuff.

if i find the link, i will post it - really found the name on the internet on an italian site...

[ariostea]

found it!

http://www.udinese.it/portal/IT/handle/ ... inazionali

ok - his first name is Gabriele... but he is a Peric and he is from Trieste. Long live Slovenia!

edit: oh - Roby found much more Perics in Trieste - the guy has a big familiy!

[team fl]

found it!

http://www.udinese.it/portal/IT/handle/ ... inazionali

ok - his first name is Gabriele... but he is a Peric and he is from Trieste. Long live Slovenia!

edit: oh - Roby found much more Perics in Trieste - the guy has a big familiy!

Thank you! Nationality is on the way for Gianluca, as RS Ostfriesland wrote.

Cheers and no offense, FL

[ariostea]

Gianluca has his flag back! thanks for that!

but again - i don´t think it´s a good idea to force people to prove that a certain name qualifies for a certain nationality.
If you had a sense for what it means to be discriminated in you every day life on and on just because you have the "wrong" name - you wouldn´t demand this.

[team fl]

Gianluca has his flag back! thanks for that!

but again - i don´t think it´s a good idea to force people to prove that a certain name qualifies for a certain nationality.
If you had a sense for what it means to be discriminated in you every day life on and on just because you have the "wrong" name - you wouldn´t demand this.

At the risk of completing your picture of me: This really made my day

[Robyklebt]

Anti Ari

The result of the anti discrimination would be discrimination and ignorance. What happened when nations were first introduced? Yeah, Belorus!!!! That's were I'll put my Rainer Müller! Yeah, North Korea! Perfect for my John Johnson. Yeah, Egypt, what fits better there than Hugo Sörensen?
Sizeable German minorities everywhere, same for english names.

[ariostea]

Roby:

What happened when nations were first introduced? Yeah, Belorus!!!! That's were I'll put my Rainer Müller! Yeah, North Korea! Perfect for my John Johnson. Yeah, Egypt, what fits better there than Hugo Sörensen?
Sizeable German minorities everywhere, same for english names.

hm - i see what you mean.
still would go with the Rene Müllers in Russia and hope that most players who play the game for a longer time will take care somewhen on their own.

I mean, the first rider i named here was "Jala Bert - French". If you start a game you don´t take it too serious. And you shoudn´t - it´s still a game only. If there had been a NC at this time to tell me , i did not select a proper name, i might have stopped playing (not sure, who knows) - just thinking "what f... name police" these guys have around here...taking the whole thing much too serious...

don´t get me wrong - i have nothing against FL (I like FL) and nothing against any other member of the NC - but for me it´s too much unsympathic overkill of regulation we have here.
And as we can see the topic tends to get personal as well - sry again for being rude in the beginning - but i don´t like what you demand here.

[Robyklebt]

Jala Bert, pffff, trottel him
And I don't like FL.