Saw Myanmar 18 or 17h last stage the other day. Yellow offline. What does he do? Offline settings. He rides red with 2 good flat riders. Then when they were dead? Nothing. Clearly a mistake, he should have put somebody in red tempo the whole stage. But ok, he did his work as GC leader he controlled the first part for the sprint teams, even over controlled. So then the sprint teams took over and get their sprint. Oh, no. The onliners, despite some back and forth from one of the guys finally decided the right thing to do was: Attack with their GC guys and get the GC win for one, top 3 for another, green for another, stage win for another one again (that didn't work, since the green guy got it).
What do I want to say with this? As long as offliners are getting fucked, raped, up the ass regularly at the first opportunity, forced to perform oral sex, eat fecal matter and talk with Manghi at the second, there is no reason to cut their possibility for any offline settings. Incl attacks.
Of course sometimes it's frustrating. But so it must be for the guy mentioned above who lost his GC in a flat stage after having been online the first 4 days of a 5 day tour. His own fault because he didn't put in better offline settings? Same things for onliners... their fault because they didn't put in good online settings.
Of course the people doing the fucking, raping etc are not necessarily the same ones as those complaining about offline attacks.
There are "abusers" on both sides, onliners and offliners. But we shouldn't do the rules according to those abusers. Which will hurt the whole rest of the users, because of the action of the "abusers" everybody loses some options. Not good. And of course everybody sees what's ok and what not differently too.
Example:
-Take advantage of the first time a guy is offline and eliminate him from the tour? Idiotic. Happened in the example above, happened in the afternoon Giro this year.
-Eliminate a guy who is mostly offline after a few days of this? I see no problem really.
-Offline attacks for stages... not really sure about that myself... In a way why not, mostly has to do with how often the guy is online too. Work the first 150 km, then off for the last 30... why shouldn't he? All day off, go at the end... not fantastic, if he has tempo settings with the helpers before.. ok, then more ok again somehow
- But offline attacks for stage race wins? Again, a guy that is offline every day, like Ringos used to be, and attacked offline almost everyday, finally winning the last stage and making Ariostea sweat in the 2007 Tour of Ethiopia in January... not good. Could have won the race there even. And was offline most of the tour actually. BAD. But... last day of the Andes for example, let's say Hill was 1" in front of Trapani... Trapani better form. I can't be on for that day.. find no sitter. So after fighting for 2 weeks I don't get the chance to finish the job on the last day unless I'm online? Not good.
So, for Pirkios proposal:
1) If team is offline (don't care how much kms,) No attack Disagree. Depends on the situation. I have seen fair and good offline attacks. And the opposite too.
2) If team is in tempo and go offline, after X kms stop tempo also no sprint should be good.. (X very short variable.. maybe 10 km?) Not good. Sprinter team rides the whole day, has to go off 15 km from the end? Alk has an unexpected meeting? Somebodies boss comes into the office? The ape gets an attack of diarrhea?
3) If team is offline for Y km remove settings (help + follow + tempo settings) If don't like the short no sprint timing use no sprint in this timing. (Y long variable maybe 60 - 70 km) Why? Most of the time the offliners are guys that... actually wouldn't have to do anything if they were on either. Sprint day in a tour, 80 sprinter in Team x, 5 guys with 90 or more. Team x doesn't want to attack? And that sprint day has no time? Why should he be forced to check in after 60-70 km to keep his help? He'll check in to put in sprint after the last intermediate, GPM anyway if he wants to sprint. If there's none.. .ok, then not.
4) If team is online for all the kms give him a price. Let him attack when he want, let him have his settings, and let him an advantage from who isn't online. The price is already there. Fun! Much more than being offline. Yes, sometimes frustrating if somebody surprisingly attacks off at the end.. but sitll had fun before.
Agree with BWs national championship thing though... but that's a whole other mess anyway.,
Otherwise? Let's grow up. Don't always demand technical solution for human problems. Treat the offliners if you're on, the onliners if you're off, like you would want to be treated by them. Adjust that depending on who it is, maybe, ok, people with "offline/online abuse" histories would get treated differently by me as well. But generally do what you would hope the others would do. If you have offline settings, mention that you have them when you make them. Don't need to say WHAT of course. If somebody is off after figthing for something for x days, don't fuck him over just like that. Etc etc.
