Make TT real..
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:22 pm
Here i write a lot of shit so i deleted it 
Page 1 of 1
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:08 pm
Agree (once more). Suggestions like this come up every some months. But Buhmann continuously denies to see any benefit in changing the tt procedure.
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:56 pm
Nice, but a rider every 2 min ? too long i think each 30sec or 1 min would be ok no ?
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:15 pm
22 teams, 2 minutes for each block, ~44 minutes maximum. Could be okay. Enough time for thinking, talking to the rider, adjusting his gears and so on.
Okay, it could also be 11 riders each minute, so that every team has a rider starting every 2nd minute.
Okay, it could also be 11 riders each minute, so that every team has a rider starting every 2nd minute.
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:43 pm
Implement this would cost much time. And the advantages are not really big in my opinion.
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:27 pm
what for?
most tt's are quite boring, no sense to make them last much longer...
cant see any positive effect
most tt's are quite boring, no sense to make them last much longer...
cant see any positive effect
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:36 pm
And if it's a long TT ?? 44 min + x time (for the lasts ones to finish)...Luna wrote:22 teams, 2 minutes for each block, ~44 minutes maximum. Could be okay. Enough time for thinking, talking to the rider, adjusting his gears and so on.
Okay, it could also be 11 riders each minute, so that every team has a rider starting every 2nd minute.
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:39 pm
The only thing that makes a RL tt little suspensful is the fact that you get to now the times one after the other.claw wrote:what for?
most tt's are quite boring, no sense to make them last much longer...
cant see any positive effect
@Elaska:
That's true. A longer tt would last longer. 20 or 40 minutes more. Depends on how fast we would let start the riders. Would still be less time then a road race stage.
But anyway. You see, Buhmann is not interested.
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:19 am
I draw more race last time, and ,in my opinion, ITT and TTT must be realized in 500 mt. distance.
ever 500 mt. in 30 second phase
another intresting argoment for the Crono(but not only), was the resistance, for me a big lapse in RSF, sure a very important value in real race and basic value for the GT!
ever 500 mt. in 30 second phase
another intresting argoment for the Crono(but not only), was the resistance, for me a big lapse in RSF, sure a very important value in real race and basic value for the GT!
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 11:30 am
Last night (after an orgasm with naked ape photo) i was thinking about TT again
Another problem is this.. Crono is the capacity of one rider to make the same number of "rides" every minute.
So the skill "Crono" not realy esist (is only the capacity of one rider to stay in the correct position on the bike) but is a combination by Flat (or Hill or Downhill) and Resistance. Now let's think about the top riders.
Fabian Cancellara is not only a strong cronoman is (maybe) the top in the flat (just see his victory in the milano - sanremo) for sure he is very strong too in resistance
Vincenzo Nibali Good in crono, the winner of 2010 Vuelta. Is not only good in crono is too strong in flat and is super in downhill don't forget he ride Giro "3" and Vuelta "1" in 2010 I think he is not bad in resistance
Schleks, Contador, S Sanchez e co. are the same they are good in flat and in resistance.
Don't want to insert Lance Armstrong becouse he was doped by his medicine.
Now think about other riders with not great resistance...
Damiano Cunego (ok is one of my favourite riders) but he have not good resistance. He can do 2 - 3 great race in one tour but after he is Death. And he is not good in crono. Very bad in crono for true..
Gilbert maybe the strong man in the hilly race but like Cunego not great in the long distance and not great in crono.
There are a lot of other but is not the point of the discussion.
The point is what crono real is?
Maybe is a singular skill or maybe is the combination of the ability and the power of one rider? Why one rider with 81 mountain 49 flat and 80 crono can do the same time of one with 58 mountain 80 flat and 80 crono? (without the resistance implemented)
Please... Can we have Resistance and more real TT? For have finally some real tour and some real teams (almost during the tours)
Another problem is this.. Crono is the capacity of one rider to make the same number of "rides" every minute.
So the skill "Crono" not realy esist (is only the capacity of one rider to stay in the correct position on the bike) but is a combination by Flat (or Hill or Downhill) and Resistance. Now let's think about the top riders.
Fabian Cancellara is not only a strong cronoman is (maybe) the top in the flat (just see his victory in the milano - sanremo) for sure he is very strong too in resistance
Vincenzo Nibali Good in crono, the winner of 2010 Vuelta. Is not only good in crono is too strong in flat and is super in downhill don't forget he ride Giro "3" and Vuelta "1" in 2010 I think he is not bad in resistance
Schleks, Contador, S Sanchez e co. are the same they are good in flat and in resistance.
Don't want to insert Lance Armstrong becouse he was doped by his medicine.
Now think about other riders with not great resistance...
Damiano Cunego (ok is one of my favourite riders) but he have not good resistance. He can do 2 - 3 great race in one tour but after he is Death. And he is not good in crono. Very bad in crono for true..
Gilbert maybe the strong man in the hilly race but like Cunego not great in the long distance and not great in crono.
There are a lot of other but is not the point of the discussion.
The point is what crono real is?
Maybe is a singular skill or maybe is the combination of the ability and the power of one rider? Why one rider with 81 mountain 49 flat and 80 crono can do the same time of one with 58 mountain 80 flat and 80 crono? (without the resistance implemented)
Please... Can we have Resistance and more real TT? For have finally some real tour and some real teams (almost during the tours)
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 1:21 pm
I do not agree with Pirkio's analyses. I think it is necessary to take the weight of the riders into considerations. Very strong TT riders are heavier than riders for the big tours, and pure climbers are even lighter. Many riders in the past have suffered in TT after focusing on stage race (e.g. Michael Rogers) and this was also the view of Cancellara after speculations he could focus on the Tour one day.
In my opinion classics riders could be good riders for TT, but there is no reason for them to focus on this skill. And they could loose the ability to cope with the often changing tempo and profile in their favourite races.
Weight is also the reason why many sprinters are good in the flat (and on pave). (This has nothing to do with TT, so I stop discussing it here)
In my opinion classics riders could be good riders for TT, but there is no reason for them to focus on this skill. And they could loose the ability to cope with the often changing tempo and profile in their favourite races.
Weight is also the reason why many sprinters are good in the flat (and on pave). (This has nothing to do with TT, so I stop discussing it here)
Re: Make TT real..
Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 2:45 pm
From wikipedia:
Types of climbers
Climbers tend to have a lot of endurance and specifically developed muscles for long hard climbs. They also tend to have a slim, lightweight physique, but some can become good climbers through concerted training. Ironically, many climbers are not very good descenders and many see their large time advantage diminished by the time they reach the bottom of a descent.[citation needed]
The most successful climbing specialists come in different shapes and specializations. Climbers with very small physique such as Leonardo Piepoli (52 kg), Roberto Heras (60 kg), Alberto Contador (63 kg) and Gilberto Simoni (58 kg) thrive when the climbs reach dizzying heights and incredibly steep slopes where their low weight makes them more efficient and able to put in repeated acceleration runs. Their endurance also makes them good stage race specialists. Marco Pantani, champion of the 1998 Tour de France, was able to make attack after attack to quickly tire out his opponents.
Other riders with similarly small physiques but more power may specialize in short but steep climbs, dubbed "sprinters hills". Examples of such hills include the Mur de Huy in the Flèche Wallonne and the Manayunk Wall in the Philadelphia International Championship Examples include Paolo Bettini and Danilo Di Luca, who are able to sprint their way up the shorter climbs to win a stage or a single-day race. However, their lower endurance is a disadvantage in stage races where the climbs are usually longer, albeit at lower gradients. One fact that must be noted, however, is that many climbers cannot sprint very well because their relative small size does not allow them the strength of the bigger built sprinters.
The last type of climber is the breakaway specialist who can ride aggressively with many attacks and sustain their lead over ascents, descents, and flats. Famous examples include Laurent Jalabert and Richard Virenque, both of whom earned their King of the Mountains jerseys in the Tour de France by day-long breakaways amassing the points at every summit. Most notably, Laurent Jalabert started his career as a sprinter but later transformed himself into a different type of rider. Many riders who are primarily time-trialists have also been able to compete in everything but the steepest climbs because of their good power-to-weight ratio. Tour de France winners Miguel Indurain and Jan Ullrich were primarily time-trialists but were also among the best in the mountain stages the years they won the Tour de France.
Types of climbers
Climbers tend to have a lot of endurance and specifically developed muscles for long hard climbs. They also tend to have a slim, lightweight physique, but some can become good climbers through concerted training. Ironically, many climbers are not very good descenders and many see their large time advantage diminished by the time they reach the bottom of a descent.[citation needed]
The most successful climbing specialists come in different shapes and specializations. Climbers with very small physique such as Leonardo Piepoli (52 kg), Roberto Heras (60 kg), Alberto Contador (63 kg) and Gilberto Simoni (58 kg) thrive when the climbs reach dizzying heights and incredibly steep slopes where their low weight makes them more efficient and able to put in repeated acceleration runs. Their endurance also makes them good stage race specialists. Marco Pantani, champion of the 1998 Tour de France, was able to make attack after attack to quickly tire out his opponents.
Other riders with similarly small physiques but more power may specialize in short but steep climbs, dubbed "sprinters hills". Examples of such hills include the Mur de Huy in the Flèche Wallonne and the Manayunk Wall in the Philadelphia International Championship Examples include Paolo Bettini and Danilo Di Luca, who are able to sprint their way up the shorter climbs to win a stage or a single-day race. However, their lower endurance is a disadvantage in stage races where the climbs are usually longer, albeit at lower gradients. One fact that must be noted, however, is that many climbers cannot sprint very well because their relative small size does not allow them the strength of the bigger built sprinters.
The last type of climber is the breakaway specialist who can ride aggressively with many attacks and sustain their lead over ascents, descents, and flats. Famous examples include Laurent Jalabert and Richard Virenque, both of whom earned their King of the Mountains jerseys in the Tour de France by day-long breakaways amassing the points at every summit. Most notably, Laurent Jalabert started his career as a sprinter but later transformed himself into a different type of rider. Many riders who are primarily time-trialists have also been able to compete in everything but the steepest climbs because of their good power-to-weight ratio. Tour de France winners Miguel Indurain and Jan Ullrich were primarily time-trialists but were also among the best in the mountain stages the years they won the Tour de France.