New teams and reset finances

[Quick]

This is not about RFM. He was just an example as his team was only meant for the tour. It also isn't about winning or not.

Again, 2 admins. 2 don't see a problem. So I guess, I overthought that. Thx again.

But Gip: my thought was not about resetting and buying a team, then winning. But about buying a team, winning(winning actually doesn't matter, it's about the impact one has) and then resetting

Again: How does your proposal solve that?

Which proposal? The first quick one? Was of course no final one. Lots of discussion necessary first. Discussions I'm not willing to participate in because: First you have to agree, that changes should be done. You don't, fair enough.

[ProTour-Team]

If the admins and the majority of the players dont see a problem why should anybody think about a solution, let alone a good one?
but i am unsure if "he could just create a new team instead of a reset" is a good counterargument

what rfm did was pretty unique i think. but even a new team with 20M you can buy a very expensive team, ride a GT and just restart with 20M again. dont think that has any positive value to the game at all. giving the new teams more than 15M is something i like, maybe 20M was a bit too much but dont think you want to change it already again either

R4M [...] had the luck to be able to find such a team of cheapened riders. Anybody would have been able to buy these riders.

wasnt there a limit on buying such riders or he just didnt hit it?

[Robyklebt]

Different issues:

In no specific orders:

1) 20 millions for start and reset. My opinion is known. The advertisement on the start page for it btw is hilarious. It says absolutely nothing to a real newcomer. 20 millions might be a lot, might be worth almost nothing. And restart people hopefully reuse their old team.... My opinion known, but it doesn't hurt repeating the highlights, spur of the moment implementation of rules that aren't well thought out, haven't been discussed, which effects haven't been thought about are bad. And in this case doubtful if the goal, help for newcomers, is actually reached.

2) Rules for RfM, we already have one, we don't need to make countless c4f rules for RfM. Plus he hasn't done a reset yet anyway.

3) Reset from D3 on. Is clear that that is supposed to be temporary. Long term hopefully we get enough players so to get it back to where it belongs, resets for D6+7 only. Right now we are of course far away from the numbers necessary for that. So:
a) keep it at 3-7 (8 is there but invisible I think)? Possible.
b) make it 4-7? 15 of 50 teams in D3 have at least 1 race. 22 teams have points, meaning they either raced in June or bought riders with points . Or got points from the NCs... regardless, that's teams with riders. Fast clicking through said only 11 of the 50 teams have no riders. In total 4 teams are banned too. (Some with, some without points). In addition we have 5 teams coming up from D4 with races, one going down with races). D5 has 8 teams with races coming up. D6 8 teams too. 20 teams with races in D7. Not all of these teams in D3-7 that rode this month will necessarily stay. Some of them might just leave the team as it is, end up with close to no money when all their riders have been forcibly retired, so potential candidates for another reset. But some will stay, IMO making it 4-7 even now should be possible. IF the admins are ok with potential extra work, teams that are in D3, keep not being relegated and come back with no or little money and need a reset, if admins are ok with giving those guys a manual reset, then back to 4-7 for me is already ok.
c) Back to 6-7 immediately. SEe the last part of b). If the admins are ok with potential extra work, we could go back to the original and sensible rule. But here the work might be more. Even newcomers that are washed up from D7 to D5 very fast (ride the Giro, get 1500 points, go to D6 on the 31st, be in D5 on the first of June, no more reset but maybe thanks to high salary in the Giro in minus (see 1) so need a reset there would be fair, manual reset for D4-5 most likely would be more work than just D3, where IMO it would happen pretty rarely.
For me all 3 work, but prefer b and c, b IMO is realistic at this point, even if we risk losing players again in the offseason. Advantage of b and c is we come closer to the goal, otherwise we always have to analyze the situation to see how far along we are. IF the admins are ok with the extra work, go for c. Otherwise go for b. Is the Donkey recommendation.

4) Reset for wins or reset after big losses: Something I hadn't thought about yet either, Kwick did. Obviously a combination of 1 and 3. Most people won't. But some might. And for restarters and so on the 20 millions IMO are more than enough to make yourself a very dangerous GT GC team. So be off years, come back, do a reset, have 20 millions, have a very good team. Even if you are in D6, or just make a new 20 million team. Just look at Bergwerks team he made before he got Bergwerk back. His leader was an 85 mountain 60 TT I think. Team was done with 15 millions I think. He probably wrote it down somewhere. Make that 20 and not only the leader, but also the supporting cast is strong. Another thing that wasn't thought about in the spur of the moment decision to increase the start capital to 20 MIo. Now somebody that is happy to do part-time c4f might use this regularly, Top team for a GT, reset immediately after, or sell first to go down a division or at least not up, then buy a team for the next GT, if you're happy not riding in between, or not much... perfect.

5)

And just for the sake of your example: R4M didn't win even though he had the luck to be able to find such a team of cheapened riders.

This is interesting. If I remember correctly, there was a 3 rider limit of heavily cheapened riders. But have to admit my c4f knowledge is decreasing, not 100% sure I'm correct, maybe somebody else remembers. So the question is: Is that rule (if it was a rule) still in place? Or did something change?

6)

I also don't see a plausible way to go back to 15mio again.

I do. Replace the "20000000" in the code with "15000000". While not knowing much about programming, I think that would work well enough, if it's replaced in all the relevant places.

7) Wrote it, now deleted it, since there's a chance I'd get a fine for it. But feel much better about addressing point number 7 even if none of you can read it.

Edit: While writing (no, didn't take me 2 hours, did something else in between) I see the multi thought of 2 of the same things as I did. I'll rethink it once again then, possible I got something wrong if the multi agrees.

[schappy]

In My Opinion, the 20 mio makes a different for some Player to stay in this game.
With only 15 million for 9 rider, you can have one Top 3 Rider in one Terrain. With 20 mio, you can have 10-11 rider and two rider for top 3 places in races.
And Comebcker use the old Teams, but most of them, dont have more than 20 million.

[Bright]

A late response because I only see it now. I did wait for reset 2 times (resetted 3 times total)

It would be nice to be able to reset quicker in division 7 when you start riding.

Although maybe for me better would be to get a set of 6 base helpers and 10 million when you start)

helpers with following stats:
age 26-28
Climbing 47-52
Flat 75-80
DH 55-75
TT 45-50
Sprint 45-50
reg:35-55
Wage <35k

This way you'd ensure healthy team inscription and still give them a lot of money to form their team.

The first 2 times I made mistakes with rookies,tt specialists and expensive riders.

This setup would be only in division 7 as when you reach 6 the 20 million free spendable should be better.

EDIT: Reset should be combined with the div structure i made up, and only be allowed in 6/7, it crazy some teams can reset in division 3 and up, why? These teams have at least 3 month of experience and should know better and if a team in these divisions would be allowed to reset, they should be dropped to division 6, so they cant just pick up de 50% price riders.

[lennylenny]

EDIT: Reset should be combined with the div structure i made up, and only be allowed in 6/7, it crazy some teams can reset in division 3 and up, why? These teams have at least 3 month of experience and should know better and if a team in these divisions would be allowed to reset, they should be dropped to division 6, so they cant just pick up de 50% price riders.

Being inactive currently doesn't relegate you to Div 6, if you have enough eternal points, you don't even get relegated past Div 3.
So in order to not have comeback teams that might have stopped with pretty much no money and their riders then slowly auto retiring at 40 have to request a manual reset in reset, the reset limit is currently at Div3. Having to manually request a reset in the forum would probably lead to some teams not coming back at all.

As far as i understand that reset limit would be changed if inacitve teams are always demoted to lower divisions than div3.