cycling4freaks.com

change your sprinter if he's too afraid to follow.

Buhmann wrote:Hmm. Was an answer for an other thread...sorry

kann doch nicht sein das man sich an keinen Sprinter mehr hängen kann wenn der seinen mit einem flachfahrer mit 50 sprint absichert.

Werde das irgendwie anders lösen. Einfluss des Flachwertes verringern wohl am besten. Oder nur für die Flachfahrer die "von vorne" sprinten?

gar keinen einfluss nehmen lassen. kann ja nicht angehen das man einen topfitten sprinter mit einem schwachen absichert, sobald der sprinter als helfer agiert sollte man dem die kraft abziehen,

i do not like the idea of stealing energy
still should be possible to make trains without energy penalty

i think it is better that weak or low-skill teammates do not get the wheel automatically but being treated like anybody else in the fight for the positions

for me this behaviour is the main problem in the sprint right now

+1

skull wrote:i do not like the idea of stealing energy
still should be possible to make trains without energy penalty

i think it is better that weak or low-skill teammates do not get the wheel automatically but being treated like anybody else in the fight for the positions

for me this behaviour is the main problem in the sprint right now

If I understand it right, this already happened to my team, when my leader sprinter (well, in this case a climber with 58 sprint) did not get the wheel of his lead out man because a much stronger rider (more flat, more sprint) got that wheel.

skull wrote:i do not like the idea of stealing energy
still should be possible to make trains without energy penalty

i think it is better that weak or low-skill teammates do not get the wheel automatically but being treated like anybody else in the fight for the positions

for me this behaviour is the main problem in the sprint right now

Is this really the problem? Are teammembers still prefered in the wheel getting chance? Thought this was canceled with the new system?!

Yes, teammates have a better chance to get the wheel. But it is only a bonus of ~10

bonus of 10 seems not to be true...so often some 5x guys take the wheel of the sprinter against other 9x sprinters...

Rockstar Inc wrote:bonus of 10 seems not to be true...so often some 5x guys take the wheel of the sprinter against other 9x sprinters...

That's mainly because the flat skill is (was?) more important than the sprint at 450m for the positioning

imo "is"...

skull wrote:i do not like the idea of stealing energy
still should be possible to make trains without energy penalty

i think it is better that weak or low-skill teammates do not get the wheel automatically but being treated like anybody else in the fight for the positions

for me this behaviour is the main problem in the sprint right now

wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe, dann sehe ich das genauso. würde auch etwas ändern

Bin mir nicht sicher ob ich es richtig verstanden habe. Evtl. kurz auf Deutsch erklären?

Sorry for the question about the wind, better to ask it here ^^

I asked : Does the wind has some importance in the sprints?

Buhmann answered : Yes, wind has an impact. Rider will loose more energy when wind is strong

And I'll add : so backwind have also an impact (harder to overtake?) that's nice if it works ^^

Buhmann wrote:Bin mir nicht sicher ob ich es richtig verstanden habe. Evtl. kurz auf Deutsch erklären?

Das Hauptproblem was ich aktuell in den Sprints sehe ist, dass viele an das Ende von ihren Zügen einen schwachen Fahrer stellen, der dann alles dahinter blockieren soll (und auch blockiert).

Libby Ansatz (wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe) ist dem Fahrer davor massiv Kraft abzuziehen.
Diese Idee begeistert mich nicht, da ich Züge an sich schon gut finde und es sie weitergeben soll.

Mein Ansatz ist, wenn ein folgendes Teammitglied schwächer als der vorausfahrende ist, sollte er das Hinterrad nicht automatisch bekommen sondern genauso um das Rad kämpfen müssen wie alle anderen (aus Fremdteams).

Wie ich jetzt gelernt habe (wenn ich es richtig verstanden habe) gibt es das schon - mit einem Bonus von 10 für Fahrer des gleichen Teams.
Diesen Bonus von 10 kann ich allerdings in der erlebten Praxis nicht bestätigen, sondern eher einen Automatismus.

Wie ich weiter gelernt habe soll meine erlebte Praxis an einem überproportionalen Einfluss des Flachwerts liegen. Wenn das stimmt, muss der Einfluss weg oder deutlich geringer werden.

@ skullz das bestrafen der sprinter bezieht sich auf die die einen schwachen flachfahrer als blocker für ihr hinterrad benutzen, sie wie eben gerade wieder in meinem rennen. 92er sprinter "hilft" einem schwachen 52er sprinter und dafür sollte es eine kraftabzug geben, oder dein ansatz auch gut das man dem blocker mit einem fitten sprinter dennoch das hr klauen kann.
züge kann es meinetwegen immer geben, kein thema aber ohne zug ist es zu schwer ein HR zu bekommen wenn jeder zug seinen sprinter blocken kann.

One solution would be: Flast skills has only impact for riders, which launche the sprint. What do you think?

Buhmann wrote:One solution would be: Flast skills has only impact for riders, which launche the sprint. What do you think?

That's interesting but keep flat as a factor, like 20/25% against 75/80% sprint, like that sprinters with 65 flat and 90 sprint still have a chance against 55 flat avec 95 sprint guys, but if it's 100% sprint, 96/97 sprint will get the wheel that they want 99% of the time...

EDIT : and please, reduce the default speed when we don't sprint, the speed is clear too high, especially in escape sprints, we can only overtake 1 or 2 guys (or bike length) when we sprint against someone who don't sprint... that make any sense to try to launch and suprise others riders with a 200m from the finish sprint launch cause they are easily catchable......

When a rider try to sprint but he is blocked , why does he lose the same amount of energie if he sprints ? imo very less energie should be used when the rider is blocked.

Buhmann wrote:One solution would be: Flast skills has only impact for riders, which launche the sprint. What do you think?

More than flat skill or not I think the problem is more about the power riders lose. The guy who sprint lose to much power compare riders who follow him.
I am ok that when a 90 sprint follows a 75 sprint he doesn't spend a lot of energy. But when a 90 sprint follows a 89, he should spend energy, at least lose the half of the 89 spend on energy. There is nothing to do for it ?

More than flat skill or not I think the problem is more about the power riders lose. The guy who sprint lose to much power compare riders who follow him.
I am ok that when a 90 sprint follows a 75 sprint he doesn't spend a lot of energy. But when a 90 sprint follows a 89, he should spend energy, at least lose the half of the 89 spend on energy. There is nothing to do for it ?

Read the News, it is already changed. If it is not enough you can tell me your opinion.

When a rider try to sprint but he is blocked , why does he lose the same amount of energie if he sprints ? imo very less energie should be used when the rider is blocked.

If a riderlaunche the sprint he lose the same energy, equal if he is blocked or not.

But during the sprint the riders which are blocked do not lose much energy. He would lose the same energy as without sprinting.

sylvainmeteo wrote:

Buhmann wrote:One solution would be: Flast skills has only impact for riders, which launche the sprint. What do you think?

That's interesting but keep flat as a factor, like 20/25% against 75/80% sprint, like that sprinters with 65 flat and 90 sprint still have a chance against 55 flat avec 95 sprint guys, but if it's 100% sprint, 96/97 sprint will get the wheel that they want 99% of the time...

EDIT : and please, reduce the default speed when we don't sprint, the speed is clear too high, especially in escape sprints, we can only overtake 1 or 2 guys (or bike length) when we sprint against someone who don't sprint... that make any sense to try to launch and suprise others riders with a 200m from the finish sprint launch cause they are easily catchable......

Sounds good. I would try it, if nobody have a problem with that.

Buhmann wrote:

sylvainmeteo wrote:

Buhmann wrote:One solution would be: Flast skills has only impact for riders, which launche the sprint. What do you think?

That's interesting but keep flat as a factor, like 20/25% against 75/80% sprint, like that sprinters with 65 flat and 90 sprint still have a chance against 55 flat avec 95 sprint guys, but if it's 100% sprint, 96/97 sprint will get the wheel that they want 99% of the time...

EDIT : and please, reduce the default speed when we don't sprint, the speed is clear too high, especially in escape sprints, we can only overtake 1 or 2 guys (or bike length) when we sprint against someone who don't sprint... that make any sense to try to launch and suprise others riders with a 200m from the finish sprint launch cause they are easily catchable......

Sounds good. I would try it, if nobody have a problem with that.

Would be nice too to do something against the teams with a 70/80/93 train for example put a 45/50 sprint behind their train and destroy all chances for the guys who are following by blocking... it's 'antijeu' in french (antigame in english?)
Not all the teams do that, but it would be nice to put an end for this kind of 'cheat'

Would be nice too to do something against the teams with a 70/80/93 train for example put a 45/50 sprint behind their train and destroy all chances for the guys who are following by blocking...

Again the same answer:

Read the News, it is already changed.

Buhmann wrote:

More than flat skill or not I think the problem is more about the power riders lose. The guy who sprint lose to much power compare riders who follow him.
I am ok that when a 90 sprint follows a 75 sprint he doesn't spend a lot of energy. But when a 90 sprint follows a 89, he should spend energy, at least lose the half of the 89 spend on energy. There is nothing to do for it ?

Read the News, it is already changed. If it is not enough you can tell me your opinion.

Yep I saw. But imo you wasn't go enough far on your idea. Now 2 guys with the same sprint. Sprinter A who launch lose between 180 and 185 energy, when B who follow lose between 40 and 50. I think B should lose more.

Another idea can be to add the 0/-6 malus during the sprint, like with the old version.

Buhmann wrote:

Would be nice too to do something against the teams with a 70/80/93 train for example put a 45/50 sprint behind their train and destroy all chances for the guys who are following by blocking...

Again the same answer:

Read the News, it is already changed.

It happen this morning at 10h Paris Tours (EM Train, Zahna got owned because of a 50 sprint between), maybe you changed that after morning race?