The Zoo

[NoPikouze]

- WHY are you not writing your comments, race reports, thoughts, in race threads? This question is for almost everybody actually, there are few positive exceptions, TEam FL will be mentioned since he is the master of race threads nowadays, some others ok too, but the big majority doesn't write. Anything. WHY?

I agree that it's interesting when it's not only a description of the result. But I dont like to write so much because if I do, all the nolifing weirdos in this place will know exactly how I think under any circumstance... and my brilliant masterplans will fall apart, forever!
Moreover, is it worth talking about cat 1 races ? Or only important races ? But a higher cat doesnt always mean more entertainment...
Anyway, look at the press center section (english/multilanguage). Almost nobody writes a thing these days... One year ago it was plenty of guys who tried to make nice reports.

[Robyklebt]

Even race reports ok... IF I'm not in the race, still interested to know what happens in some races. Sometimes. Analysis, bla bla, in the end participation is what I would like to see. If NoPik only writes "fuck the training, let's dope" after a bitter loss, that's ok too. GREAT, everything worked perfectly after a win, ok too. Better than.

"


"

What races? Don't really care, again participation. Of course, I myself will be more motivated to write a novel about the Giro than about some cat 1 strontrace... But if I end up in a writing race, cat 1, 5 days, hey, cool, I'll write too.

[Robyklebt]

You suck. Big time.

and with you I mean 99% of the users. No balls, no class, no tactical brain, no ideas, no imagination, no balls, N O T H I N G. The ape? Sorry, I'm better than 99% of you fucking useless assholes. Far from being nr 1, yep, there's a few guys, 1% or so, that is better, much better than me, yes, but honestly, the rest of you guys is just unbelievably bad. NO FUCKING clue what you're doing. Whining, whining, pissing in your pants no stop, face it, YOU ARE USELESS. 99%.

That's it for now. Pay the license, give Buh money, good boys. But don't think for a moment you are good at RSF. I'm not, and despite that I'm in the top 1% of RSF users. That just shows how unbelievably bad you assholes are.

[Lizard]

You suck. Big time.

and with you I mean 99% of the users. No balls, no class, no tactical brain, no ideas, no imagination, no balls, N O T H I N G. The ape? Sorry, I'm better than 99% of you fucking useless assholes. Far from being nr 1, yep, there's a few guys, 1% or so, that is better, much better than me, yes, but honestly, the rest of you guys is just unbelievably bad. NO FUCKING clue what you're doing. Whining, whining, pissing in your pants no stop, face it, YOU ARE USELESS. 99%.

That's it for now. Pay the license, give Buh money, good boys. But don't think for a moment you are good at RSF. I'm not, and despite that I'm in the top 1% of RSF users. That just shows how unbelievably bad you assholes are.

Didn't watch the race, but it's definitely a point I see in RSF since almost 1 1/2 years.

[Quick]

I dont want to live on this planet anymore!

[Robyklebt]

The spirale

If that's an english word.

It sucks. Horrible. What is it? It's about winning, not about fighting, it's about buying, not about riding. It's what makes many big stage races less than they actually should be. Or could be. Go higher and higher. And finally it hurts RSF in a way. GTs at RSF: More and more for 2 kinds of teams:
-Newcomers, almost complete or guys with little experience, first year.
-Old team, GC contenders
The rest? Nooooo, why waste 3 weeks without having a shot at the GC? Yes, I know there are exceptions. Sprinter teams, classic teams start too, some of them. Or other specialized teams. But a lot of older and fairly new guys, no thanks. I can't win the GC. Sprinter only 92, no good.Climber only 86, no chance against Skull. Classics not strong enough, only 72, makes no sense to start. Instead, they go to the parallel programm. Which is ok too, why not, California, Bayern, Dunkerque during the Giro, all deserve good participation too. Poland during the tour, of course. Austria and whatever else there is, ok ok, not really, but ok, who cares. But often the main reason for going there seems to be: MONEY. MONEY, so one year later those guys then show up at the GTs... with their monster teams. Which of course will make others say: It makes no sense for me to start at this and this GT, I can't beat team X with my team! Eat the cheap sidedishes in 2013, but, in 2014, they will be there... with their monster team. Etc etc. Pushing each other higher and higher, pushing the limit for a "GT win" higher every year. Pushing each other... might actually be wrong. It's more pushing yourself, using the other guys monster team as an excuse. Even if there wasn't that monster team... ha no, there is the beatable monster rider, but I can't beat him. If not, there is the excellent rider that I really can't beat. 88 mountain, can't beat that. 87 with 60 TT no helper, can't beat that. Whatever. It's just an excuse. in the end it's about pride: "I'm too good to be cannon fodder". No, you're not. "I''m too good to ride only for stages". No, you're not. A good GT needs all kinds of teams. GC contenders, sprinters, stage hunters and... cannon fodder. The cannon fodder part now often is taken by the new teams, here 2 months, don't know yet how GTs work, don't know yet that x teams will show up with ridiculously expensive teams and therefore want to make 100k a day average or so... they are cannon fodder, and won't have much fun very likely. And won't make the mistake twice, they'll only start another GT if THEY have the big team now. Or the clear stage favorite. And will be used by the next batch of newcomers as their excuse (and by oldies too, it really hasn't much to do with how long you've played)... can't compete against that, don't want too, if I start I need to be either a serial stage winner or GC favorite. Why not just once as "cannon fodder"? OK, pure cannon fodder must be boring, of course having a contender for something makes it more fun. Good chances for stages, be it sprinter/classic/climber, whatever. But why not? Of course not a new problem, we had that elitist mindset before, most glaring example the excellent Mangahn... wouldn't start a stage race if he didn't see a chance for a jersey. And "chance" for him meant what others would have described as 70% favorite.. Breaks when the team was weak, only to race when the team was at the top. But nowadays seems just more extreme. Many many elite or not so elite teams missing the GTs because of: lack of "sure" success. Rather take easier wins, and MONEY in smaller races than fighting, but of course in 2013 (or 2014 or whenever the team will seem strong enough for their chances) they will be there.. and others take there place in the "coward races". Giro this year was... weak, overall it was VERY weak. Tour actually looks better, for the first time ever at RSF.. that's why I write today, since tomorrow the groups might be ok.. might

No, of course not everybody that doesn't race the GTs is a coward. No time. Not in the mood for a 3 week race. Etc. All ok. But of course it exists, "no perspective, I'm too good to start without "guarantees" (which of course is ok too, but makes you a coward) and often the ones that miss because of "lack of perspective" then are the ones that show up with "GT buying" teams later on. Thus pushing (but as I said, don't think it really needs pushing) other managers with the same mindset to miss GTs because of "lack of perspectives". So a "spirale"... Which sucks.

Just ride the damn thing. No perspective? Then don't show up with the 550k team, just come with 450k and see if you can get a stage. Of the older teams almost everybody actually has perspectives... just not "sure" enough for the manager maybe. Newer teams, ok, sometimes the guy with the stage chances really seems to be missing, then ok..but on the other hand, why not? Fight, see if you can "force" something. See if you can get a surprise win. Go in escapes Which might help the race actually. Show up with a 90- 92 sprinter and see what you can do. Which might help the race too. Too often the guys that finally show up, end up having similar riders and in the end there is almost no challenge to the sprint, or escape, depending on the overall profile. Which doesn't make for a really good race then.. it's clear what will happen, even if the profile would allow different scenarios, the scenario of stage x and z then is written after you see the start list. Because the whole thing is too hilly, sprinters have no perspective, so not enough there to challenge the hill boys. Since there aren't many hill stages the classics are not there, no perspective, so it's a sprint. On the same stage in 2 different tours. So.. just SHOW up, and try. Of course you might fail. Of course you'll have to deal with the chat heroes that tell you not to pull x or z, because of place 3 in the white jersey, of course you'll have them telling you that you shouldn't do anything since you have no chance (which indeed is true if you don't do anything) (and of course there is senseless riding too, but...). So what. Try, if you fail, you'll try again in the next attempt, if you win a stage, cool. Probably worth more than the guy who wins 4 stages but only shows up when he has the team that makes it likely for him to win 4 stages. Don't get sucked into the spirale, only ride if you have the super rider/super team, and miss it to earn money when you don't. Just ride.

[NoPikouze]

Riding a GT without big ambition CAN be cool, but it isn't necessarily. It's very peloton-dependant !

And 450k to see what happens, you're a bit silly there. That makes hmm 21 * 75k = 1.5m loss, that you have to get back by stages and jerseys. Ok, participation in a gt doesnt have to be very well paid, it's also just fun. But still, it's very likely you don't make much money, let's say if the tour is allright, with a several top 5 rankings, you can even it out. So you end at 0. With at least 1m in the parallel races, thats a significant lack of money already.
And if the peloton sucks, is overexcited, has some senseless people in it, or favorites for every kind of stage (since only people with a big favo show up, it's also quite likely)... Then the fun drops pretty quickly and you're stuck with your 2 average classics and flat riders for 3 weeks, 2 restdays and 3 timetrials.
I can understand the choice.

[Robyklebt]

450k you will have more than 2 average classics and flat riders! And MOST teams of D1-4 have more than that, most teams can show up with more than fireball at 16h...be more than cannon fodder.

[Robyklebt]

The Zoo is alive! Well, not really, but a bit.

Todays topic the same as the last one probably, I'm not going to reread my own posts now...

So, for the second time this year we have a scandal invovling the jury for the "hors delai" time. Riders saved despite being back more than 45'. Nobody happy, the guys who lost riders say theirs should be in too, the guys that if I understood correctly tried to get as many as possible out unhappy that not all over 45' are out.

And Ronsons comment.

Months ago I proposed to write it down in the FAQs or rather tutorial. Because it happend to me as well:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2837

In an ideal RSF world I agree 100%. Ahhh, but it's not an ideal RSF world. Not ideal because Buhmann has no time. And not ideal because the big majority of users here don't fucking deserve any information anyway. Too many takers, take take take take take, too many whiners, whine whine whine whine whine, that don't give anything to the game, aren't ready to invest 5' to give something, aren't ready to think a bit to give something. So... good, very good that many people don't know stuff. I'm not referring to Ronson/RVB/Pirati/Hanse or Nilkheim, the guys active in the threads about the jury, maybe they are part of the "taking-whiners gang", maybe not. not the point here. The point is the general, average or something RSF user. That unfortunately is finally defined by the majority.

Let's talk about FL though. I know he offered Buhmann to rewrite some FAQs, do some information work etc. +++++ for FL. ------ for Buhmann for not taking it up. But, at the same time ++++++ for Buhmann for not accepting the offer, for forgetting it, whatever. Why should FL spend his time for the majority of brainless self important arrogant pieces of shit here? Who want to know everything, who demand information, who demand service, but aren't ready to spend 2 seconds to do something productive?

Exhibit 1: The big big big big fairness emergency situation. Reading some of the alarmist posts that appear in the fairness part, you could think RSF was close to the end because of the fairness problems, especially the multis. Even if the quarterly multi paranoia is over, but will restart in the next month probably. And nobody does anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bastard Buhmann!!!! Bastard! Enter FL, he writes a thought out (didn't say well, hehe) long post about a Fairness committee reform. For a committee that works better, helps Buhmann, speeds up the whole process and improves the process. He posts it. And? viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2296 A few guys comment, the majority is silent. Yes, we know, you all don't have time to spend every waking minute with RSF. Unless there's something to complain about...
Exhibit 2: The december tour competetion. 6 guys took their time to create a tour. Knowing that only 1 can win, so that most likely they will have spent hours for nothing. But they invest that time, they give us the choice. We only need 2' - 10' minutes to look at the offered stage races, click and submit, done. As of right now, 43 people have done that. The whole rest of the 300 or so regularly active guys are just too good to vote, too superior to care. Yes, still 6 days time, the vote count will increase. Still, it's an embarrassment for RSF that at roughly half time of the vote, only 43 guys have voted.

Soooo, to come back to FAQs etc. Should anybody, be it Buhmann or FL or somebody else really invest time to make some of the information easily available to everybody? When a only laughable number of those waiting for this information are ready to invest time for constructive criticism, constructive discussions? If only 43 managers have found the time to vote for the offered Decembertours? 495 teams have ridden at least 1 race so far in october, 495. Less than 10% deems a vote for a december tour worth his time. So back to the question at the beginning of this paragraph. The anwer is no. Fuck no. Fuck the fuckers, let them bleed in their ignorance. The RSF players don't deserve Buhmann, don't deserve lesossies who spend a lot of time with this game. So many people don't know many things? Blame yourselfs. Don't just take and demand, give, even if only a vote. But for a majorty this is clearly to much, so fuck the RSF users. No info is what they deserve.

The sad thing of course is that the guys reading this are probably the guys who would deserve more info.... but well, we as I said, we are defined by the majority... so, a hearty FUCK YOU to all my readers. And to myself too.

[Cerro Torre RT]

For one thing, desinging a december tour, there may be more of a reason than a fear to put in work for nothing - knowlegde that the work would be wasted if done. Which is the case for me, as my opinions of a good tour are very very unpopular. The combination of a prologue, very few intermediates and minute tact lenghts of more than 40 km in average are the perfect assurance that you might gain some few votes, but for sure I won't win, even if showing up the perfect profiles (which I won't anyway, as I don't know where to find them aside from Europe).

[Robyklebt]

Yeah, you don't want to make a dec tour, no problem. Although I actually was hoping to see one from you. But know (or think, I think to remember you mentioning it) that you are a slow designer, like me too actually. Doesn't take me hours for a tour, takes me ... days. A whole tour months, with new exploring of this option there, that alternative route here etc. google earth not tracks4bikers, etc etc. As I said, you are slow too if I remember correctly, so would take more time than maybe all other 6 tours together... And maybe for nothing. Still.. why so pessimistic... Prologue unpopular? Don't think so really... but since there are few this year, a + point for you. Few intermediates? Why not.. I'm actually thinking of no intermediates for my next entry. Perfect profiles... doesn't exist. And if, it's Yemen, grrrrrrr! Long mintacts? Last year Yemen won, minimum mintact was 30 km (I think, usually never put less, maybe did 29 or so once, to be nice and win some votes? I go and check...minimum 30, longest mintact 69 but on a 79 km stage.. .after that 60 once. And 50 km on a 260 stage, average no clue, go calculate it yourself. Long mintacts have chances I think. Then a good presentation like you would have probably done increases chances... so don't think it's hopeless from the start.
But that's not even the point, you don't want to spend the time for a dec tour, or don't want to make one for any other reason, no problem. Can't expect everybody to make Dec Tours, some have fun doing it, do it, others don't want, for whatever reason, no problem.

The problem IMO is that lots and lots and lots and lots of users don't even take the time to look at the december-tours and vote. Which yes, takes 10' if you want to actually look at the tours and not just, ohh, this seems fun, click. It's just taking, no giving. Only giving disrespect to the guys that actually took the time and did the work to make a Dec tour. At least give them a few minutes and a vote. Hey, I'm not always nice to the dec designers either, have said "this is the worst shit I've ever seen" "horrible tour" etc. Which probably doesn't make them too happy either, but IMO is less disrespectful than simply not caring. Ignore everything, not only dec tours, but also constructive proposals by somebody like FL who did a lot last year, ignore most other constructive ideas. Basically doing nothing, just "taking" from Buh, without giving him (through the game, not directly) anything back. That was the point, at least do the minimum, if you (general you, not you) care so deeply about fairness and multis that you whine and complain in the fairness section regularly, then at least contribute something when a guy like FL makes a proposal. Or LIzard did one too. At least vote for a dec tour. Takes 10'. Don't like something, propose a solution. Plus you (now you, Cerro) know the problem, remember how far your excellent hall of fame idea went? Dead by ignoring it in no time at all.

[Cerro Torre RT]

I actually thought about posting one, a protest tour in northern Canada and Alaska, maybe one stage in Grönland. But as I had some problems in doing my Patagonia tour, that joke designing idea didn't last for long.

Hm, yeah, the hall of fame... I was prepared it wouldn't work that well for too long, but seeing it going down before the first voting even, that was beyond my expectation.

[Robyklebt]

A protest tour against what?

[team fl]

Against the Zoo! I heard this zoo is full of apes anyway. No other animals...Sounds not much fun to me. Anyway, I join you in your conclusion, but still, Buhmann has to think about where RSF/C4F should go to. If he wants it to be big, he has to offer the information. A player will be a consumer first, and not a contributer. If he wants it to be small with a sort of "family" of gamers, then of course he should do as you said. It's his game, it's his decision. Besides that, wouldn't you agree that the behaviour you dislike so much is just a mirror of today's society in the most regions of Europe somehow?

[Robyklebt]

The zoo is cool. There are other animals here as well. Many, many. Like... mmh, dogs! Cats! Ah, Zebras, Lions, etc etc. Many many many.

And don't come with logic arguments here when our argument is mostly an emotional one. With which you agree, but in typical Liechtenstein fashion drift back to where the money is, logic. Ok ok, yeah, you're right. There is lots that Buhmann has to do to make the game grow. Of course not a "family" group of gamers, even though it's kind of insulting to call this thing here "family"... Now I'm related to Bergwerk??? Buh has maaany things to do, including banning all of his current users and hope to have more luck with the next ones. Plus lots of other stuff, infos, bugs, finish stuff he began years ago etc etc. Yes yes, my analytical Kiesler, you're right.

Mirror? Well, yes. Like in the zoo, those humans only want to consume, refuse to be an exhibit, although they would be a huge success. Just 3 days ago I had an inquiry from a group of Bonobos, they already had booked their flight, they just wanted to visit to see some humans, they heard they come in all different colors and sizes, they said they couldn't find where the human compound was on our internet site, if I could tell them, I had to tell them sorry, we don't have that. Unfortunately. Big business opportunity lost, they'll go to Disneyland now instead. Otherwise... participation is higher in votes in real life than here I would say.

[Cerro Torre RT]

Against the allwinteronlyracesinthesouth-madness.

[Robyklebt]

Not madness, it's real weather and as long as we don't have a sensible "Karenzzeitsystem" that doesn't automatically eliminate riders on long tough stages due to the unflexible system we have now, well, 250 stages with over 6000 meters altitude difference at 0 degrees is madness, not acceptable temperatures

[Cerro Torre RT]

Madness and not, you forgot some things about the Yemen win. Headfirst, you told perfect design does not exist, and you do know yourself that this is a stupid lie, disproved by yourself. And second, you are The Ape (or was it Jammerlappen who designed it?). So even if not understanding the design, that can only mean oneself overlooks something important. So either way, the vote is a nobrainer.

[Robyklebt]

Eh? Not really sure what you are saying this time...

Yemen? RKL designs, certainly no Köbi Jammerlappen. Nor Josef (intersting, 2 brothers, Jakob is universally known as Köbi, but Josef never as Sepp, mmh) Perfect design? Yemen? That's the point... not even I claim my beloved Yemen is perfect, and I certainly do love that tour and get even less friendly than usual if it gets criticized. And there are things to be criticized, I just don't want to hear it!
But seriously, no clue what you're saying in your post.

As for your protest tour, make one for 13, if it wins it will be ridden. Those who don't want to ride a whole tour at 0 degrees will go to the side program, easy.

[Robyklebt]

OLcycle<16:39>: so go code rsf

It's a pleasure for the hamster to fulfill OL's wish

Code: Select all

RSF

[RS Ostfriesland]

Code: Select all

if Roby posting lame shit
go hit roby
else hit roby

[Robyklebt]

The zoo is alive!

The Donkey chased away all the minor animals, especially the monkeys and apes, no need for those losers here.

The topic of the zoo today is:

Where have all the sprinters gone?

Decembertour with 4 sure sprints, possibly chances to get more on some hilly stages. And? 0 sprinters with 90 or more in the race. Right now there are 33 sprinters with 90 or more sprint and current points. None showed up. Of course only 33 of these animals is not overly impressive either, but since they exist, shouldn't at least some random wolf show up in the main stage race of the month? Most important wins of the month are there, in the Decembertour, not in Nigeria, not anywhere else. But no topsprinter wants them... weird.