How to handle prohibited Team attacks

[helpme]

Hallo, first the Situation in todays 22h Race

Km: 138, Steigung: 0
Bruno Joly (Laugenspitze) attackiert
Lukas Gerhardt (Montania Crew) geht mit
Harry Wilson (Cultural Salamanca) geht mit
Jesper Nissen (Laugenspitze) geht mit
Marius Enzian (Montania Crew) geht mit
Magnus Hedegaard (Laugenspitze) geht mit
Lars Wiszeck (Montania Crew) geht mit
Leroy Gibson (Laugenspitze) geht mit


8 Riders from 3 Teams and up in the Escape, which seems like a chained attack described in the Fairplay rules. This was also followed by another attack from the escaped group.

Km: 139, Steigung: 0
Lars Wiszeck (Montania Crew) attackiert

Both of the Managers dropped 2 and 1 rider choice shortly after to repair the situation.

So there wasn't any ill will by the participants, but things were a bit confusing since it took a bit of time to realize and the Fairplay rules don't give an explicit solution how to handle these things.

So I am opening this Thread to talk about adding guidelines for solutions into the Fairplay rules to help players resolve such issues.

Some of the question that came to my mind:

Should the whole group have to fall back?
If single riders, should riders who already made tempo or attacked be allowed to be picked?

[team fl]

Usually, the following applies: If there is an chained team attack according to rule 3, you try to resolve the situation as quickly as possible with letting as many riders as needed fall back in the group they attacked from. These should be riders that haven't been used yet to ride tempo in the newly formed group, as that would be an unfair advantage.

But you're right, that should be written somewhere in the manual.

[Laugenspitze]

So we only half solved the problem. Lars attacked and then dropped back after Hedegaard got him. Magnus and Bruno dropped down then too.

Should really be written somewhere, clearly, to avoid quarrels.

Thx for being ok with that yesterday, because it was the decisive attack for Leroy, Jesper and Lukas.

[team fl]

It's rather complicated, as it heavily depends on the situation. The main question is: Is there an unfair advantage because of the chained team attack, even after the situation has been resolved by the involved teams that influenced the race in a disproportionate way, other than without the additional riders? Sometimes, it needs a bit time to react and chained team attacks are not planned necessarily. That's why it's different to rule 1 or rule 2.

In this particular case, it looks to me like the involved teams tried to make it right, according to their capabilities.

[flockmastoR]

So we only half solved the problem. Lars attacked and then dropped back after Hedegaard got him. Magnus and Bruno dropped down then too.

Should really be written somewhere, clearly, to avoid quarrels.

Thx for being ok with that yesterday, because it was the decisive attack for Leroy, Jesper and Lukas.

1) It is an illegal (chained) team attack by definition
2) By attacking and having 2 additional riders hanging you risk the creation of this illegal situation
3) The convention is that it will not be fined if an appropriate reaction is given (benefiting from it in any way will most likely lead to a fine, that can include a) dropping the rider that already rode tempo in front, b) keeping a rider as a helper in the group too long even when he is not riding, c) dropping the 3rd rider too late so that you profit from keeping it in the peloton where he would otherwise be dropped, d) list is not complete, depends on the race/stage race situation)
4) Being offline/not knowing the rules does not protect from punishment, hanging your riders is/was an action that can lead to an illegal action
5) I believe, that it is clearly defined that it is illegal. If you are unsure ask in the chat. I see no need to define a "What should I do when I created an illegal team attack" guideline because it always depends on the race situation as well. You should discuss this in your race chat. If you all agree on a way to fix it, nice. If there are different opinions, everybody is still free to open a fairplay thread in the forum. Usually, the more experienced teams tell you what is the common way to fix it.

[team fl]

I guess he means it should be written what the involved teams should do for the best possible outcome regarding fairplay once the chained team attack happened...

[flockmastoR]

I guess he means it should be written what the involved teams should do for the best possible outcome regarding fairplay once the chained team attack happened...

I know. But there is no rule to solve the situation. We could write something like "Try to resolve it by dropping the additional riders without profiting from the situation. Fast reaction helps" Not in that formulation. But for me, this is a no-brainer. I expect the RSF community in the chat to solve it.

[helpme]

Thanks for the replies.

Of course an abstract rule can't cover everything, but from what you all posted the rules are more lenient than one might think and the goal is to achieve a racestate most closely to no violation happening. So I would add:

"Violations should be resolved in timely fashion during the race by trying to create a racestate as intended by the rules, e.g.: dropping illegal additional riders without using them."

Or something like that.